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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:03 AM   #76
MonkeySee....
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Originally Posted by Ericcc View Post
Sales of iPhones will still grow globally, just like Blackberry did when everyone knew they were in the ditch. Apple is not in the same position as Blackberry was, but they are losing mindshare in key markets, and very likely losing customers in the high-end devices market as well.

The maps debacle, lawsuits, poor marketing recently, and Steve's death have really put a dent in Apple's reputation. But the main issue is that their iPhone formula simply isn't cutting it anymore. Consumers see viable alternatives with features they want, be it larger form factor or an OS that offers better workflow. If Apple does not do something to catch up to / leapfrog the competition, many of those consumers will not be returning.
It doesn't matter but I disagree with pretty much all of that.

oh well
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:03 AM   #77
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You've got to be kidding. I'm not offering any real substance? Says the guy who declared "nonsense" and dismissed anyone who doesn't understand tech as well as he does as having no common sense. Seriously, that's so short sighted I can barely believe you typed it.

As for proving my point, you did actually. We were discussing how the ability to do open with/choose default relies on one of two possibilities:

1) Intrusive popups when doing new actions, a la Android (which you dismissed).
2) Hiding it away in a menu.

You then outlined the problem with hiding it away in a menu - i.e. people can't find it/don't even know it's there, and someone has to help them out.

tl;dr: If you disagree with my point, fine, but respond to it with your own instead of just dismissing it as "nonsense"
I am sorry you are offended that I believe your assertion that a simple popup is confusing or offensive was nonsense. But believe it I do.

You made the assertion and offered not one iota of proof to back it up. That is what I meant by offering no valid arguments. And "you just proved my point" is not a counter-point.

If you have some valid study or similar to backup your contention that most people are imbeciles, do show it. OK, just reading the news can show that.




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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:19 AM   #78
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I fail to see how getting a popup asking what you want to open a document with as confusing

If I open a jpg from an email it will ask me once what I want to open it with, if I select the default gallery that is it, jpgs will always open in gallery (unless I chose not to make this the default)

If I open a file type on my Mac that I havent used before it will ask me what app I want to open it with, after doing this once it is done

My Mac gives me over 15 apps I can open jpgs with and 7 options for mp3 files
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:40 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
It doesn't matter but I disagree with pretty much all of that.

oh well
You don't believe the supply-chain cut reports? That seems legit.



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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:50 AM   #80
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In Q3 the old outdated iphone 4s sold 16 million units vs the S3 18 million.

Analysts state that sales numbers were lower than usual due to people waiting for the iPhone 5.

I really do not see where people are ditching the iPhone.

People also do not realize the Market is less competitive than what it was 3 years ago.

HTC, Motorola, and LG are falling behind Samsung. Motorola got bought out by Google which helps them. HTC financial statements shows the company has been bleeding for some time. LG i do not know anything about.

iPhone 5 will probably win out the next 2 quarters till the cycle starts again and people with the 4s start waiting for the 5s.
Samsung is cannibalizing HTC sales yes, but that does not mean Android is not gaining traction overall. Also, despite poor sales, HTC is still outputting highly competitive devices. Samsung is just destroying them in marketing and product availability across all carriers.

Speaking of product availability, iPhone sales must have been bolstered by their introduction on Verizon and Sprint in recent years. Whether growth vs Android will continue is North America is up in the air. Also, it's undeniable that Samsung and the Nexus devices are doing a good job gaining mindshare for Android. Next year's figures and the introduction of iOS 7 will be very telling.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:53 AM   #81
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You just explained how none of your daily activities depend on iCloud yet are chiming in, in bold, that you never noticed an iCloud system outage? Uh, ok.
Right... if none of my daily activities depend on it, how would I notice?

I have never noticed extended iCloud downtime in NC. Sure, sometimes iMessage reverts to SMS, but it doesn't really bother me. I have the 4, so I can't really speak to the Siri issue; suffice to say I don't feel a need to upgrade.

Granted, I'm also the one who had no idea the Playstation Network was down until they sent out the email about giving out free games for my "inconvenience."
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:54 AM   #82
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You don't believe the supply-chain cut reports? That seems legit.



Michael
You didn't mention that in you post but to be honest I've not heard too much about them.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:03 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
You didn't mention that in you post but to be honest I've not heard too much about them.
It wasn't my post; I believe you mean Ericcc's.

But see here, from Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...ares-down.html




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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:07 PM   #84
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I fail to see how getting a popup asking what you want to open a document with as confusing
No more confusing than this:
Attached Thumbnails
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:13 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
It wasn't my post; I believe you mean Ericcc's.

But see here, from Bloomberg:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...ares-down.html



Michael
Ok, wasn't in Ericcc's post either but thanks for the link.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:15 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
I am sorry you are offended that I believe your assertion that a simple popup is confusing or offensive was nonsense. But believe it I do.

You made the assertion and offered not one iota of proof to back it up. That is what I meant by offering no valid arguments. And "you just proved my point" is not a counter-point.

If you have some valid study or similar to backup your contention that most people are imbeciles, do show it. OK, just reading the news can show that.




Michael
EXACTLY

Seriously though, there was no evidence provided because...well, what kind of evidence could I provide that would be worth anything ...but really because I see it all the time! Not specifically with that menu, but unexpected interruptions like that, especially if there's an "always" option.

But really it's not about a single option, it's about the multitude of small options (and accompanying additional intrusions/UI clutter) like this that people actually want. iOS has never been about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
No more confusing than this:
This is triggered by you hitting the "share" button, right? Not an unexpected interruption.

EDIT: This is to other posters as well, don't think about you, think about your parents or colleagues or teachers or other people you know (perhaps of increasing years ) who wouldn't think/know how to do it on their computer either. These are the people who Apple is really targeting with iOS, because there are untold billions to be made when that market is fully unlocked.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:25 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
EDIT: This is to other posters as well, don't think about you, think about your parents or colleagues or teachers or other people you know (perhaps of increasing years ) who wouldn't think/know how to do it on their computer either. These are the people who Apple is really marketing to with iOS, because there are untold billions to be made if that market is fully unlocked.
This is pretty much exactly what I tell people: if you want to customize and configure your smartphone, get Android. If you just want it to work, get an iPhone.

I wouldn't be against a "Default Apps" section in settings. But I absolutely agree that asking when opening a file is an unexpected — and annoying — intrusion. Typically I don't care what app opens a file on my phone; I just want to see the file.

On a related note, I wish OS X would suppress all dialogs while one is actively typing. That **** gets on my last nerve — you're typing, and are about halfway through your sentence, when suddenly some box pops up interrupting your flow.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:14 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
EDIT: This is to other posters as well, don't think about you, think about your parents or colleagues or teachers or other people you know (perhaps of increasing years ) who wouldn't think/know how to do it on their computer either. These are the people who Apple is really targeting with iOS, because there are untold billions to be made when that market is fully unlocked.
If people are clever enough to install an app then they can understand sharing

If I install Facebook on iOS/Android then I don't see why it in confusing to get this as an option when choosing to share something

If people install addition media players, image viewers etc, then I expect they are clever enough to understand what it means when thy get this as a choice when opening that type of file

If you don't install the extra apps, it just results in the default apps being used, same as iOS
try to open a picture, no options, just opens in gallery
try to open music, just opens in the media player

Looks like I used 'if' too many times in this post

Android is very simple if you want it to be, you are not forced to use all the additional features if you don't want to
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:27 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by paulsalter View Post
If people are clever enough to install an app then they can understand sharing

If I install Facebook on iOS/Android then I don't see why it in confusing to get this as an option when choosing to share something

If people install addition media players, image viewers etc, then I expect they are clever enough to understand what it means when thy get this as a choice when opening that type of file

If you don't install the extra apps, it just results in the default apps being used, same as iOS
try to open a picture, no options, just opens in gallery
try to open music, just opens in the media player

Looks like I used 'if' too many times in this post

Android is very simple if you want it to be, you are not forced to use all the additional features if you don't want to
For crying out loud, we are not talking about sharing! I have no problem with the sharing, it's something you intentionally trigger, that's fine!

As for your expectations and what you do or do not see, I repeat, this is not about you.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:33 PM   #90
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Android is very simple if you want it to be, you are not forced to use all the additional features if you don't want to
This!

It seems that Apple thinks if they give you an option, even if it's buried deep within settings, it is automatically too complicated.

Have files automatically open in Apple's default app and allow the default app to be changed in settings. Problem solved, no increase in difficulty to non savvy users. Options aren't bad.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:36 PM   #91
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This!

It seems that Apple thinks if they give you an option, even if it's buried deep within settings, it is automatically too complicated.

Have files automatically open in Apple's default app and allow the default app to be changed in settings. Problem solved, no increase in difficulty to non savvy users. Options aren't bad.
I take it you've never used KDE?

And yes, that is exactly what Apple thinks.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:45 PM   #92
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I take it you've never used KDE?

And yes, that is exactly what Apple thinks.
Nope, I haven't used KDE.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:46 PM   #93
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Nope, I haven't used KDE.
Good. Don't. Ever. It's horrible
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:32 PM   #94
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Sorry, the latest iPhone is the worst iPhone to date. Not only did they simply just stretch the previous 2 generations, they couldn't even get that right. Only thing innovative in any way was their new SoC. Nothing else in the software or hardware was new or innovative. Same with the iPad 4 and iPad mini. Apple simply rehash es the previous generation and then tries to add one new thing (that usually isn't available on the previous generation) to make you buy more iCrap. People are getting tired of this and the lack of QA on new products, which is why sales are down and Apple doesn't post sales figures on any of the new devices released this fall.
Apple is releasing products that keep up with current technology, and often innovate. People are buying the products. Your argument that they "simply rehash the previous generation and then add one new thing", is vague and meaningless.

I could care less what hardware or OS people use (or prefer), but there are a lot of illogical and unsupported arguments in this thread.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 01:05 PM   #95
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1998 called. It wants its endless Mac vs. PC arguments back.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:28 AM   #96
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Apple is releasing products that keep up with current technology, and often innovate. People are buying the products. Your argument that they "simply rehash the previous generation and then add one new thing", is vague and meaningless.

I could care less what hardware or OS people use (or prefer), but there are a lot of illogical and unsupported arguments in this thread.
I give you Siri, iMaps and 'retina' displays as recent examples of 'a new thing' that won't work with a previous Gen iPhone model and forces people to upgrade each year. Maybe that is vague and meaningless in a rose colored Apple world? And do the iPad 2, 3, 4 and mini all look identical? Or the iPhone 4, 4s and 5? This is called rehashing the same idea, over and over, because you have nothing left to offer. Notice how the Nokia 920, S3, HOX, 8x, Optimism G and so forth are all new looking and innovative designs over the previous generation of each model?

As for innovation from Apple. It ceased in 2010. Name one thing that has been innovative since then? Hell, give me an example of one piece of iOS software that has been innovative since then. We know Apple has copied a lot from Google since that time, like say the Notification Center, VIP aka 'Priority' Inbox, split keyboard, panorama photo (Apple will copy photosphere next, just watch), launching apps from the lock screen, tabbed browsing for gods sake! and so on. (iMessage was a blatant rip off from RIM!)

And show me sales figures from Apple from any American or European country, since its opening weekend, of the iPhone5, iPad mini or iPad 4. Hint: you won't find any, because they aren't good. Yet, Apple puts out a ton of media press about selling 2 million phones in China during that countries opening weekend. So, lots of press articles for that, but nothing from Apple regarding iPad sales from anywhere in the world and no iPhone sales figures from anywhere, but China? I wonder why that is?
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 09:03 PM   #97
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Apple? Innovate? They don't do that any more, they don't keep up with technology, they've fallen behind
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 09:21 PM   #98
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Anyone thinking that the Mac OS B&W screen is the same as the 2012 Mac OS X and then comparing it to iOS has to have some serious issues, go to the Ophthalmologist soon before your insurance grace period ends.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 11:21 PM   #99
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I can appreciate what iOS and Android try to provide but I wish iOS would get more modern with widget support in the notifications drawer.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 11:25 AM   #100
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I give you Siri, iMaps and 'retina' displays as recent examples of 'a new thing' that won't work with a previous Gen iPhone model and forces people to upgrade each year. Maybe that is vague and meaningless in a rose colored Apple world? And do the iPad 2, 3, 4 and mini all look identical? Or the iPhone 4, 4s and 5? This is called rehashing the same idea, over and over, because you have nothing left to offer. Notice how the Nokia 920, S3, HOX, 8x, Optimism G and so forth are all new looking and innovative designs over the previous generation of each model?

As for innovation from Apple. It ceased in 2010. Name one thing that has been innovative since then? Hell, give me an example of one piece of iOS software that has been innovative since then. We know Apple has copied a lot from Google since that time, like say the Notification Center, VIP aka 'Priority' Inbox, split keyboard, panorama photo (Apple will copy photosphere next, just watch), launching apps from the lock screen, tabbed browsing for gods sake! and so on. (iMessage was a blatant rip off from RIM!)

And show me sales figures from Apple from any American or European country, since its opening weekend, of the iPhone5, iPad mini or iPad 4. Hint: you won't find any, because they aren't good. Yet, Apple puts out a ton of media press about selling 2 million phones in China during that countries opening weekend. So, lots of press articles for that, but nothing from Apple regarding iPad sales from anywhere in the world and no iPhone sales figures from anywhere, but China? I wonder why that is?
oh damn i can't change the glass on my old phone to a 'retina' screen? i'm getting ripped off!!!
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