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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:57 PM   #151
vmachiel
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Wooow, what a number. Who said Apple can't grow anymore
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 01:42 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Yes but what percentage of the population would be considered smartphone buyers? It's not 1.3B
Never is the full population considered to be the smartphone buying market so I would consider what you've just said to be a truism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
As others have said... just going by the total population is silly.

There are many people in China who are living in poverty... how does that get factored into this?

And what about carriers? The US alone had 3 major carriers selling the iPhone 5.

China only had 2 carriers... and not even their biggest one.

What about 3G coverage? 3G? Yeah... some parts of China don't even have 3G... let alone 4G.

So... you cannot summarize this story by saying "Apple failed by only selling 2 million iPhones in a country of a billion people…"
Well let me first refute your last point by pointing out that I have clearly and unequivocally not said that Apple failed in any way, I merely said that it is not as impressive as Apple are picturing it and have even congratulated them at the end of my post so please do not approach what I say in a dichotomous manner.

Going back to your first point, I don't think it is silly to compare populations. It is indeed very difficult to compare smartphone markets and China indeed has a huge portion of its population which lives a life of poverty. At the same time, due to wealth distribution in the country, there is a lot of upper-middle and upper class people in the country and consequently one could argue that the smartphone buying market is comparable or even bigger than in the 9 aforementioned "initial" countries.

The choice of carriers is irrelevant and moreover you seem to assume that the iPhone 5 was available at a larger number of carriers and/or at the biggest ones in the 9 countries, which is not true (take UK for an example).

Finally your 3G argument, which is also completely irrelevant. To most people 4G support isn't a reason to buy an iPhone 5 - I happen to work in the advertising business and I must say, the biggest problem when it comes to promoting 4G is explaining its advantages to John Doe, without simply stating that it's faster. I would argue that most of iPhone 5 buyers don't even understand what 4G is - it's just a number to them, and 4 is better than 3, and that's it; it can't be considered a selling point. Moreover 4G isn't available in every country from the "initial 9" and each of those countries also has patchy 3G coverage.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 02:02 PM   #153
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It's good to see Apple releasing weekend "box office" figures. It would also be nice to hear them report first week or two overall sales, maybe by region. I think that would be course enough to give guidance without disclosing proprietary info. Anything that gives a metric that puts uptake in a positive light will bias toward the things they want such as negotiations with carriers and with TV programming concatenators.

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Old Dec 17, 2012, 02:10 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
And most of the Chinese population live in conditions like this:

Thumb resize.

So 2 million the first weekend is fine considering their addressable market.

And don't forget... this was just the first weekend. Apple will keep selling iPhones in China from now on.

China will be a good market for Apple.
Indeed. In fact, it's much the same here in Canada.



Canada is an awesome market for the iPhone as well.

Although it sucks to have to ride the sled 2 days to the nearest Apple Store in Edmonton, once we get our hands on our iPhones it makes the trip completely worth it.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 03:24 PM   #155
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Wow. It doesn't matter how well Apple does, haters are going to hate.

Get it straight people. Apple just sold two million more iPhone 5 units.

Who cares about the percentage of the population??? No matter how you slice it, two million is a lot of freaking phones!!

If you can, buy stock. Now, now, NOW.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 03:29 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melendezest View Post
Wow. It doesn't matter how well Apple does, haters are going to hate.

Get it straight people. Apple just sold two million more iPhone 5 units.

Who cares about the percentage of the population??? No matter how you slice it, two million is a lot of freaking phones!!
Agreed. If 2 million is only a tiny sliver of the population, think about the potential! Apple just sold a ton of iPhones in China, but has the potential to sell many, many, many more tons.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 04:11 PM   #157
Michael Scrip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melendezest View Post
Wow. It doesn't matter how well Apple does, haters are going to hate.

Get it straight people. Apple just sold two million more iPhone 5 units.

Who cares about the percentage of the population??? No matter how you slice it, two million is a lot of freaking phones!!

If you can, buy stock. Now, now, NOW.
Exactly. And that was just 3 days.

The iPhone will continue to be on sale in China this week, next week and beyond!
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 04:27 PM   #158
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by tjl3 View Post
Yes actually, but w/ regards to segment and market. You can bet they're concerned w/ how many Accords v Camrys or Civics v Corollas they sell against Toyota.

But just the same, Apple is probably concerned only w/ phones competing in the same class, for example the S3, and in the same markets that the iPhone is offered in.
I'm not saying they don't care... it's just that car manufacturers have a lot more to keep up with when comparing themselves to a dozen other manufacturers.

To us... it's simply Android vs iPhone. Or Samsung vs Apple. Easy.

I can see how difficult it would be to keep up with Civics v Nissan Sentra v Hyundai Accent v Kia Rio v whatever.

And Accord v Nissan Altima v Hyundai Sonata v Kia Optima v whatever.

But anyway... the original comment I replied to was talking about market share and how Apple needed more of it. Android has a ton of market share... and Apple not so much.

That's why I mentioned cars... where there are many models competing on that chart. There is no single manufacturer or model who has 70% of the market, like Android does. It's sorta spread out across all the manufacturers.

I never understood the market share argument anyway. Yes... Android has a ton of market share. But Apple is laughing all the way to the bank at #2 or #3 depending on the chart you are looking at.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezetos View Post

Never is the full population considered to be the smartphone buying market so I would consider what you've just said to be a truism.

Well let me first refute your last point by pointing out that I have clearly and unequivocally not said that Apple failed in any way, I merely said that it is not as impressive as Apple are picturing it and have even congratulated them at the end of my post so please do not approach what I say in a dichotomous manner.

Going back to your first point, I don't think it is silly to compare populations. It is indeed very difficult to compare smartphone markets and China indeed has a huge portion of its population which lives a life of poverty. At the same time, due to wealth distribution in the country, there is a lot of upper-middle and upper class people in the country and consequently one could argue that the smartphone buying market is comparable or even bigger than in the 9 aforementioned "initial" countries.

The choice of carriers is irrelevant and moreover you seem to assume that the iPhone 5 was available at a larger number of carriers and/or at the biggest ones in the 9 countries, which is not true (take UK for an example).

Finally your 3G argument, which is also completely irrelevant. To most people 4G support isn't a reason to buy an iPhone 5 - I happen to work in the advertising business and I must say, the biggest problem when it comes to promoting 4G is explaining its advantages to John Doe, without simply stating that it's faster. I would argue that most of iPhone 5 buyers don't even understand what 4G is - it's just a number to them, and 4 is better than 3, and that's it; it can't be considered a selling point. Moreover 4G isn't available in every country from the "initial 9" and each of those countries also has patchy 3G coverage.
OK... well I tried to provide some excuses to why the iPhone didn't sell well in China on its launch weekend.

And you've just invalidated all of them.

So... is the iPhone just gonna have a bad time in China?
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 05:58 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
If you could genuinely buy a Samsung Galaxy S3 for $49, then Apple would buy all the S3s in the world and make Samsung bankrupt in a heartbeat. Apple could then send all these S3s to China, where they are taken apart, and batteries, RAM and so on salvaged to be put into iPhones. Probably cheaper than buying the parts from the manufacturer.

What you actually did was enter a contract where you pay some amount of dollars every month for the next 12 or 18 or 24 months, and the difference between the cost of the S3 and your $49, plus some _very_ generous interest, is paid out of that monthly payment.
<Yawn>

Thank you, Captain Obvious.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:32 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nastychild View Post
Could someone post for how much is iP5 being sold in China and the terms? Are they pretty much similar to US, 2 year commitment and about $200?
From what I understand, you have to upfront the entire contract, say 5000 rmb into your account balance and then China Unicom or whatever just dips into that every month. That's at least what I've seen for a few people I know. I think it's because there is a non existant credit system in China and they know plenty of people can't be trusted to pay back a service plan. Plenty of people buy from Hong Kong instead (if they know someone with a Hong Kong credit card) which is one of the cheapest places to buy apple hardware.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:09 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Boomish69 View Post
lol good for Apple then, own 10% of the market, and remain exclusive. Why not design something better and not just thinner, and don't overprice it ($842 in china) and capture a much bigger slice of the market. It just smells of greed and laziness! Thats not the Apple Steve built.

I think just different markets in two different approaches

Android actually care about how much people using the devices as Google need that number for bargaining with Ads company.

Apple indeed looking for how to maximize their profit with the prestigius "image".

Just like Economy car must have much higher market share than Luxury cars. Why not Ferrari head for those 20000 USD markets?

I bet if LV/Gucci make some backpack in Jansport price, they will earn much higher market share as well.

Anyway, just different styles of business.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 12:25 AM   #162
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there is a Chinese proverb "钱多人傻速来", which means there's a place full of stupid rich man, hurry up.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:41 AM   #163
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there is a Chinese proverb "钱多人傻速来", which means there's a place full of stupid rich man, hurry up.
I smell trolling. Oh wait posting bad things about Apple is not considered trolling on macrumors, only defending Apple is. My apology.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 06:23 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
So... Apple should flood the market with cheap crap just to get a bigger number on someone's market share graph?

Guess what... Apple doesn't care what everyone else is doing... they only wanna make great products. And that is EXACTLY what Steve Jobs wanted.
err nope I didn't say that at all, I said their design of the iPhone 5 could be better! Apple have the tendancy to do the minimum sometimes, ring out every last penny of a product and don't update it very much. My daughter loves her iPhone 5, I still like my 4 but won't buy a 5 because I think they dropped the ball. But do they care if their making money, maybe not, but I'm sure if this was Steve still at the helm resting on their laurels was not one of his directives. Android are scooping the market under their feet.
Samsung sold 18 mill S3's compared to Apples 16 million iPhones in the 3rd quarter, and their sales figures are climbing. My point was simply making news that Apple had sold x amount of iPhones in China isn't big news.
Maybe Apple doesn't care but I know Steve would have or he wouldn't have so much in his book!
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 07:31 AM   #165
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by Boomish69 View Post

Samsung sold 18 mill S3's compared to Apples 16 million iPhones in the 3rd quarter, and their sales figures are climbing.
Is there some kind of contest I'm unaware of? What do you get for 2nd place?

Apple is the only company that can make billions of dollars as the runner-up.

Speaking of that... Apple makes more money but sells fewer phones than Samsung. Seems like Apple figured out the secret... more results from less work.

Oh... and you might wanna check your figures... Apple sold 26.9 million iPhones last quarter.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012...r-Results.html
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:04 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Boomish69 View Post
Samsung sold 18 mill S3's compared to Apples 16 million iPhones in the 3rd quarter, and their sales figures are climbing. My point was simply making news that Apple had sold x amount of iPhones in China isn't big news.
Maybe Apple doesn't care but I know Steve would have or he wouldn't have so much in his book!
huh?? Apple sold 16M iphone in 3Q? This is from the earning announcement for 3Q12... China sale is a big deal because it will be the second biggest market for any cell phone maker in the world in a year or two..


http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolog...-expectations/

Quote:
Sales of the iPhone were 28% higher at 26 million;
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 04:00 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by lazard View Post
People also don't realize the difference in purchasing power in China vs. the US. A person making $36,500/yr in China has the same purchasing power as a US household making roughly $100,000/yr.
yup yup
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 03:27 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
Is there some kind of contest I'm unaware of? What do you get for 2nd place?

Apple is the only company that can make billions of dollars as the runner-up.

Speaking of that... Apple makes more money but sells fewer phones than Samsung. Seems like Apple figured out the secret... more results from less work.

Oh... and you might wanna check your figures... Apple sold 26.9 million iPhones last quarter.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012...r-Results.html
My point being as I stated soo many times is, if all people want Apple to do is make money then fine, obviously I want them to make money but more importantly I'd like them to not loose ground in market share to a copycat company like Samsung, especially in China! I gave the Q3 figures to show the S3 sales over the iPhone and Samsung's year on year growth and dominance.
If you think it's fine for Apple to sit back and invent less then fine, China is the worlds biggest market and also a place where Apple has yet no real brand loyalty, so they are giving the lead in smartphone sales to Samsung but being overpriced and safe.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by xofruitcake View Post
huh?? Apple sold 16M iphone in 3Q? This is from the earning announcement for 3Q12... China sale is a big deal because it will be the second biggest market for any cell phone maker in the world in a year or two..


http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolog...-expectations/
Jeez I give up explaining my point ...lets see exactly how much Apple is dominated in China by Samsung in a year. Remember it's not just phones but the IOS system and the interconnection of the Mac etc etc, Apple is giving this huge market away by being overpriced and safe with it's design. I hate to say it but side by side the S3 looks and feels way better then the iPhone 5.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:22 AM   #169
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by Boomish69 View Post
My point being as I stated soo many times is, if all people want Apple to do is make money then fine, obviously I want them to make money but more importantly I'd like them to not loose ground in market share to a copycat company like Samsung, especially in China! I gave the Q3 figures to show the S3 sales over the iPhone and Samsung's year on year growth and dominance.
If you think it's fine for Apple to sit back and invent less then fine, China is the worlds biggest market and also a place where Apple has yet no real brand loyalty, so they are giving the lead in smartphone sales to Samsung but being overpriced and safe.
Ah... I see.

The thing about market share is... it's something that looks great on a chart... but doesn't really have a lot to do with daily life. I don't think people really care where a company ranks on the chart.

Like I said before... does someone looking at a Honda know where they rank among Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Volkswagen, and every other car maker? No... they just buy the car that they like.

It's fun to line every company up and make comparisons of the market as a whole... but there's not much you can do with it after that.

Here's the forecast of the Top 5 OEMs for 2012:

Smartphones

28% Samsung
20% Apple
5% Nokia
5% HTC
5% RIM

ALL Phones

29% Samsung
24% Nokia
10% Apple
6% ZTE
4% LG

Apple is 2nd place in global smartphone sales... and 3rd place in ALL phones sold in the world.

That's actually not bad considering they only make one new phone a year... and it's a rather expensive phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomish69 View Post

I'd like them to not loose ground in market share to a copycat company like Samsung, especially in China!
I hear ya. I love my iPhone... and a lot of other people do too.

But personal feeling aside... more people are buying Samsung phones for whatever reason. It doesn't make Apple's products any less impressive.

I'd rather Apple keep making the level of products they've been making... than sacrifice it all to gain a few more points on a chart.

Think about sports. If you have a lower score at the end of the game... you lose. If you lose enough games... you don't get into the playoffs and your season is over.

Apple doesn't have the biggest number on the chart... but their season is never over. Apple will be making products for the rest of our lives... regardless of what the other guys are doing.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 01:32 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by pinwanger View Post
the majority does not pay income tax or capital gain tax, there is no real estate tax either.

Under such condition, a mere restaurant worker can easily afford these gadgets.
If it were true, how could those party members' concubines afford their Louis Vuitton and Mini Cooper?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 01:49 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by louis.b View Post
I smell trolling. Oh wait posting bad things about Apple is not considered trolling on macrumors, only defending Apple is. My apology.
Obtusity, on the other hand, is always welcome here.

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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:17 PM   #172
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In the end, it all comes down to this: Apple must offer an iPhone 5 model that takes full advantage of China Mobile's cellphone network.

The problem is that China Mobile's network is unique in many ways technically, and you can't just use an "unlocked" iPhone 5 to take full advantage of the network. I wouldn't be surprised that right now, Apple has prototype iPhone 5's in testing with specially-modified radio chips and a modified antenna design that is China Mobile-specific, and it will be rolled out some time in spring 2013.
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