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Old Dec 20, 2012, 02:52 PM   #51
chown33
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
There's still no good reason why anyone would need a semi-auto rifle with a 30+ round magazine.
How about a semi-auto pistol with a 30+ round magazine? How about the same pistol with a 15-round magazine? As a specific example, consider a Browning Hi-Power.

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I mean, it seems like many target shooters use .177 air rifles or .22 rifles anyways.
Consider a Ruger 10/22 with an after-market 30-round magazine. Banned or not?

Same rifle with an after-market folding stock and a 5-round magazine. Banned or not?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 02:54 PM   #52
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I strongly suspect that if I were posting arguments concerning banning something related to the lesbian lifestyle because I was misinformed symantically about some term, you would be hammering me over the head unmercifully.

We all have our priorities.

Ignorant speech is ignorant. Period.
So, lesbianism is a "lifestyle"?

And....nah I wouldn't do that. I also wouldn't say you don't get to participate in a discussion because you've never been in a lesbian relationship. That would just be silly, wouldn't it?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 02:58 PM   #53
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So, lesbianism is a "lifestyle"? ...
Sorry if I used the wrong terminology. Annoying, isn't it?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:02 PM   #54
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Why is it so hard to understand that people calling for reform don't want to crack down on legal guns. They want to crack down on illegal guns like the one used in the shooting. All these pro gun people are getting their undies in a bunch when it honestly won't effect them much at all.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:03 PM   #55
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Why is it so hard to understand that people calling for reform don't want to crack down on legal guns. They want to crack down on illegal guns like the one used in the shooting. All these pro gun people are getting their undies in a bunch when it honestly won't effect them much at all.
Which guns used in the Newtown shooting were illegal?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:26 PM   #56
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What happens if you can't drive?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:29 PM   #57
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What happens if you can't drive?
Public transportation works well for most.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:35 PM   #58
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Public transportation works well for most.
Probably untrue in many cases, but also entirely beside the point. If your gun permit is included on your driving licence, those who have no licence, for any reason, are apparently seen as unfit to own a gun or defend themselves. It seems a strange criterion to employ.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:47 PM   #59
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Probably untrue in many cases, but also entirely beside the point. If your gun permit is included on your driving licence, those who have no licence, for any reason, are apparently seen as unfit to own a gun or defend themselves. It seems a strange criterion to employ.
A CCW permit and a "gun permit" are different things entirely. A gun permit, in many municipalities that require one, allows you to own a firearm. Which is what we have in Chicago. CCW permits allow an individual to carry a handgun openly or concealed.

Regardless if it is a gun permit or a CCW permit, they are a separate document from a drivers license. However, some states do attach a CCW permit to a drivers license. So, when an officer runs an individuals plates, the officer can see the individual is a licensed CCW holder.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:52 PM   #60
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A CCW permit and a "gun permit" are different things entirely. A gun permit, in many municipalities that require one, allows you to own a firearm. Which is what we have in Chicago. CCW permits allow an individual to carry a handgun openly or concealed.

Regardless if it is a gun permit or a CCW permit, they are a separate document from a drivers license. However, some states do attach a CCW permit to a drivers license. So, when an officer runs an individuals plates, the officer can see the individual is a licensed CCW holder.
Thank you for the valuable information, but I was responding to the OP's idea that
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only people with valid driver's licenses will be allowed to own guns.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:53 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by webbuzz View Post
A CCW permit and a "gun permit" are different things entirely. A gun permit, in many municipalities that require one, allows you to own a firearm. Which is what we have in Chicago. CCW permits allow an individual to carry a handgun openly or concealed.

Regardless if it is a gun permit or a CCW permit, they are a separate document from a drivers license. However, some states do attach a CCW permit to a drivers license. So, when an officer runs an individuals plates, the officer can see the individual is a licensed CCW holder.
CCW is concealed carry, not open carry. Hence the name...
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:54 PM   #62
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I was responding to the OP's idea that
That wasn't clear. Sorry.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 03:58 PM   #63
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Sorry if I used the wrong terminology. Annoying, isn't it?
Irony. Pass it on.....
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:01 PM   #64
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CCW is concealed carry, not open carry. Hence the name...
I understand that. Unfortunately CCW is thrown around too often, and why a lot of states don't use the term CCW.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:18 PM   #65
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Hard to shoot some matches at Camp Perry without one. There are lots of folks shooting matches with AR's...
They can change the competition structure and use a different type of gun if they want to continue this. Plenty of sports change all the time.

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Yes, I do. And I will continue to point this out in whatever manner I can as long as people voice such strong sentiment about something that they have absolutely zero insight into.
Zero insight to? Right. The people have plenty of the insight to the fact that guns kill and people want to try to prevent gun deaths in the future.

You doing nothing but jumping on people for using incorrect terminology instead of actually contributing to a constructive conversation about how to fix the massive gun problem we have in this country is just as bad, if not worse, than uninformed people trying to figure out what to do.

So, if you're such an expert, then how do we fix the gun problem?

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Originally Posted by chown33 View Post
How about a semi-auto pistol with a 30+ round magazine? How about the same pistol with a 15-round magazine? As a specific example, consider a Browning Hi-Power.

Consider a Ruger 10/22 with an after-market 30-round magazine. Banned or not?

Same rifle with an after-market folding stock and a 5-round magazine. Banned or not?
I was going to post it earlier but I didn't, but at least in my opinion all guns and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds should be banned. There is not a single thing that a civilian needs any gun for that you need more than 10 rounds in a single clip without reloading.

And if I remember correctly, collapsable/folding stocks were one of the qualifications of the old Assault Weapons ban, right?

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Originally Posted by CalWizrd View Post
Which guns used in the Newtown shooting were illegal?
ALL of them because they were stolen from the shooter's mother. He did not legally own any of those guns.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:46 PM   #66
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Wow! Such easy answers! Problems are solved!
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:47 PM   #67
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...You doing nothing but jumping on people for using incorrect terminology instead of actually contributing to a constructive conversation about how to fix the massive gun problem we have in this country is just as bad, if not worse, than uninformed people trying to figure out what to do.

So, if you're such an expert, then how do we fix the gun problem?
1) Using incorrect terminology is one thing. Ranting about banning something when you're using the incorrect terminology is quite another thing. Those that don't even know what it is they are trying to ban do not add anything to the discussion, and just serve to muddy the already confused waters.

2) I never said I was an expert (although I know a hell of a lot more than some of the hysterical posters on this forum), but if you check out my previous posts in various gun related threads, I have already strongly advocated for significantly tightening regulations for who should even be able to acquire a firearm, including using psychological testing, training and competency testing, etc. I am NOT in support of NRA positions on this topic (and I've said that before as well). Just to add, I have also stated that the "gun show loop hole" should be eliminated.

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ALL of them because they were stolen from the shooter's mother. He did not legally own any of those guns.
Although that is undoubtedly correct (we can't know that for sure because everyone who would know is dead), it is a pretty lame claim, and I doubt that that is what the original poster was intending. Maybe he will come back and clarify his statement.
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Last edited by CalWizrd; Dec 20, 2012 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Addition
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:31 PM   #68
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I was going to post it earlier but I didn't, but at least in my opinion all guns and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds should be banned. There is not a single thing that a civilian needs any gun for that you need more than 10 rounds in a single clip without reloading.
So your proposal is to ban any magazine holding more than 10 rounds, for all civilians. Is that correct?

Would you extend that ban to police officers? How about retired police officers?

Would you ban active-duty military personnel from private ownership of higher capacity magazines while in-service? Even if acquired with their own money, from a government-issue source? I'm drawing an analogy with military uniforms, which are purchased from government sources, e.g. the on-base uniform shop, but which are paid for by the service-person. The uniforms become the property of the service-person, and ownership is not relinquished upon service discharge. How about retired military personnel, who may have bought higher capacity magazines during military service?

Finally, how would you propose collecting all the high-capacity magazines already legally owned? Would the ban be phased in or immediate? Sales and resales prohibited immediately, or also phased in? I'm asking because such a significant change in law will require a coordinate plan of action.

I see similar difficulties with unbanning things, specifically marijuana. States have to figure out how to make laws work in practice, otherwise it just ends up shifting commerce to the black market, without significantly affecting its volume. For example, Prohibition didn't necessarily curb alcohol consumption, though it had a large effect on organized crime.


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And if I remember correctly, collapsable/folding stocks were one of the qualifications of the old Assault Weapons ban, right?
Correct. See my post on another thread for various links and other points.

And to clarify, are you in favor of only banning high-capacity magazines, or are you also in favor of having other qualifying criteria that cause a semi-auto firearm to be classified under a wider "assault weapons" ban?

I'm asking because it seems like you're advocating that banning only higher-capacity magazines would be a sufficient restriction.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:46 PM   #69
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I question this, I have never needed nor desired to own a gun in order to protect myself. In the UK we have very strict laws on gun ownership and it works well. Yes, we have knife crime in major cities, but I don't carry a personal knife with me to protect myself, nor do I feel compelled to! Is the US that violent and dangerous a gun is needed to protect themselves? What need is there for a friggin assault rifle or fully automatics at home? Sure by all means have a single gun at home or a single shot rifle if the US is indeed that dangerous but everything else should be kept at the gun range.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:48 PM   #70
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I'm curious. Could you humor me and give me your definition or understanding of what a semi-automatic gun is?

Thanks.
Pull trigger, shoots bullet. Repeat.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:51 PM   #71
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Pull trigger, shoots bullet. Repeat.
Double-action revolvers meet that definition.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:55 PM   #72
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Were it not against forum rules to simply post an image macro this post would just be a Picard facepalm.

Really that's all this thread deserves IMO.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:55 PM   #73
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I love that armed marshal idea. I'll do you one better and say that schools should accessible panic rooms. Or a gymnasium designed to act as a panic room. As well as adequate security systems to notice an odd visitor. The 3 day waiting period though might be too small. In california there is a 7 day waiting period. Or at least there was the last time I bought my gun.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:03 PM   #74
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Pull trigger, shoots bullet. Repeat.
Humor me once again, please. What are the restrictions you believe should be placed upon semi-automatic weapons?

Thanks again in advance.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:07 PM   #75
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It looks like you found it. I'm surprised the thread over there was deleted; I wasn't expecting that. I had posted one reply in that thread telling the OP how alarmed I was by his proposals. I had 3 posts total for my post history, now I have only 2.
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