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Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:00 PM   #1
flavr
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won't be a retina mini till fall 2013..because A7 won't be ready for iPad 5 till then

Heres why:

Apple needs to differentiate their iPad product lines between the regular iPad and mini. The next version of the mini will get a retina, A6X chip and 1GB RAM...The next iPad will get a new look, A7X and 2GB RAM...

So lets imagine for a moment they update the mini to retina in the spring. What processor would it get, A5X, A6X? They can't have the A6X and 1GB RAM in both iPads, specs are too close. So they would have to update the specs for the iPad 5...thing is, the A7X will not be ready by spring.

Most likely since the mini is selling so well, why update so soon? We won't see any iPad updates in spring...and in the fall 2013

iPad mini, retina, 1GB RAM, A6X
iPad 5, retina, 2GB RAM, A7X
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:31 PM   #2
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If they put a Retina display in there, they'll probably stick with just the A7 or possibly A6. The X series are more than 40% larger in die footprint and consume a lot more power and output a lot more heat.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 11:05 PM   #3
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I'm going with a iPad Mini with Retina display in March 2013 (replacing the original iPad launch space).

A6 chip
1GB RAM

Then later in fall the iPad 5 with A7X releases.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:44 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by w00t951 View Post
If they put a Retina display in there, they'll probably stick with just the A7 or possibly A6. The X series are more than 40% larger in die footprint and consume a lot more power and output a lot more heat.
Exactly. They are likely to go in for the A6 for the mini. Both ipads will be updated to use a 28nm A6, compared to the 32nm A6/ A6X presently in use.

The A7 wont b in full production swing till mid 2014, so no way Apple is going to wait till then.Final production run of 20nm A7..if all goes well will start at the end of Oct.

My thought is Apple is going to share the SoC with Samsung and TSMC initally for the 28nm A6, before switching over to TSMC if all is well. They won't depend fully on TSMC completely..its too risky.

Expect a double ipad release in June-July
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:52 AM   #5
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A6 cant run a retina display. What r u guys smoking.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:08 AM   #6
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Apple have NEVER been generous with Ram. I expect the iPad 5 will have cpu & gpu enhancements, but will stick to the 1GB ram.

As for retina mini, as we know from previous details from the actual suppliers of these screens that they wont be ready till Q4 2013 for production, then we know the Mini will indeed get retina probably October / November 2013.

This would be 6 - 8 weeks after the inevitable iPhone 5s / 6 launch. Which we can assume will see the introduction of the A7.

I therefore predict the iPad mini will see a Retina & an A7 chip next year... There seems to be an assumption that Apple opted for the A5 in the mini as because they wanted a less powerful model, when I really believe they opted for the A5 because they didn't have retina displays ready and therefore it didn't need the extra horsepower to drive a big display. It was a decision made more of necessity and profits rather than just economics and profit.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:39 AM   #7
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I think we will see a thinner lighter ipad 4 in March and a retina ipad mini in Oct/Nov
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irDigital0l View Post
I'm going with a iPad Mini with Retina display in March 2013 (replacing the original iPad launch space).

A6 chip
1GB RAM

Then later in fall the iPad 5 with A7X releases.
Won't happen - their launch for these products is autumn now.

Apple is still behind in shipping times with the mini, so there's no way they will launch a new product in 3 months with existing stock issues of current product - there would be no reason, the demand for the current version is too high.

Some think retina won't happen in the next generation mini, can't wait to see but I wonder what resolution it'll ultimately come out with. Will it be a doubling? If so, how would they differentiate the iPad full sized from a mini with that resolution? Would they create a new intermediate resolution and give developers a resolution to support?? And what will retina do to the form factor of this most wonderful device? Right now it's big feature is size (thin and lightweight) - I doubt they would move away from that feature with a retina screen, so is that possible??
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 07:05 AM   #9
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Will an A6 be enough on retina mini ?

----------

If the ipad mini 2 has no retina


What can they do to improve it ,
Make it a little faster with an A6 & 1GB Ram ?

I haven't seen anybody here complain about the current ipad mini speeds

And there not going to change the design of the mini


Retina is the only improvement they can do
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 07:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavr View Post
Heres why:

Apple needs to differentiate their iPad product lines between the regular iPad and mini. The next version of the mini will get a retina, A6X chip and 1GB RAM...The next iPad will get a new look, A7X and 2GB RAM...

So lets imagine for a moment they update the mini to retina in the spring. What processor would it get, A5X, A6X? They can't have the A6X and 1GB RAM in both iPads, specs are too close. So they would have to update the specs for the iPad 5...thing is, the A7X will not be ready by spring.

Most likely since the mini is selling so well, why update so soon? We won't see any iPad updates in spring...and in the fall 2013

iPad mini, retina, 1GB RAM, A6X
iPad 5, retina, 2GB RAM, A7X
Why do they need to? If you mean for a reason other than the actual power it takes to run the two different sized iPads, then yes, but if only to make one look more powerful compared to the next...I don't think that is how Apple works. It will have what it needs to run the device well, and slightly faster than the last version, but not because of some marketing plan to lure people in. I think they should be almost equal in the future,,,for example: 9.7 inch iPad: A7X chip, 7.9 inch iPad Mini: A7 chip. The X is not added as an attraction to customers or satisfy power fiends, but because the larger display needs it.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 07:33 AM   #11
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Thread title should say "my prediction."

I think you'll see a retina mini in the first half of 2013, perhaps. You don't need the iPad 5 to be out to release a new mini.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:15 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by FrozenDarkness View Post
A6 cant run a retina display. What r u guys smoking.
A6 GPU is as powerful as the A5X's GPU. And since the iPad 3 has an A5X chip...
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:12 AM   #13
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Imo I don't think we will see either until September/October/November next year. Maybe iPhone 5S in July and in April I think we could see some new apple product like that radio streaming service. The iTV or whatever it will be called is said to be coming (based on screen manufacturing checks) in early 2014 or very late 2013.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:16 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ThatsMeRight View Post
A6 GPU is as powerful as the A5X's GPU. And since the iPad 3 has an A5X chip...
It has half the memory bandwidth as the A5X, something arguably extremely important in high resolutions situations.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
I therefore predict the iPad mini will see a Retina & an A7 chip next year... There seems to be an assumption that Apple opted for the A5 in the mini as because they wanted a less powerful model, when I really believe they opted for the A5 because they didn't have retina displays ready and therefore it didn't need the extra horsepower to drive a big display. It was a decision made more of necessity and profits rather than just economics and profit.
I don't quite understand this, of course Apple oped for the A5 because profits. The entire point of the mini was supposed to be an economical model and that economy does not change next year. the margins for the ipad mini doesn't fall off the wayside so apple can answer our dreams of an up to date CPU and screen. This reminds me a lot of the 13" macbook pro where apple continuously busted people's bubbles over its refusal to up the resolution.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:45 AM   #15
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The iPad 5 will have the 2gb of ram I think. Reason being is the iPhone now has 1gb and the iPad with the hugely increased resolution (thus needs hugely increased texture and picture resolutions) could use it more effectively when it comes to app switching. The iPhone 5 vs 4S is a MAJOR difference in terms of swapping apps (like 4 on my 4s to 12+ on my 5).

Then they can have the iPhone 5S and iPad mini 2 with 1gb of ram and the iPod touch 6th gen with 512 still.

Then the iPhone 6 will have 2gb of ram (approx. 2 years after the SIII and Nexus 4 had it so will be super SUPER cheap).

The will maybe shrink the A5X or A6X down to iPad mini sizes soon. Otherwise the A6 on it's own I don't think would give the same sort of power and results as the A5X was on the first gen retina iPad.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:46 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by flavr View Post
Heres why:

Apple needs to differentiate their iPad product lines between the regular iPad and mini....
The Mini is smaller. Therefore the product lines are different.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:51 PM   #17
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Won't happen - their launch for these products is autumn now.

Apple is still behind in shipping times with the mini, so there's no way they will launch a new product in 3 months with existing stock issues of current product - there would be no reason, the demand for the current version is too high.

Some think retina won't happen in the next generation mini, can't wait to see but I wonder what resolution it'll ultimately come out with. Will it be a doubling? If so, how would they differentiate the iPad full sized from a mini with that resolution? Would they create a new intermediate resolution and give developers a resolution to support?? And what will retina do to the form factor of this most wonderful device? Right now it's big feature is size (thin and lightweight) - I doubt they would move away from that feature with a retina screen, so is that possible??
They launched the iPad Mini in Fall because that was the only time they could...and they also updated the iPad due to increasing competition from Nexus 10 and Surface.

Basically, Retina is going to happen in spring time. HTC is already planning to release Windows 8 7-inch and 12-inch tablets to compete. There's going to be a ton of stuff at CES, expect Samsung to also step up. Also rumors that Microsoft is considering a price drop for the Surface.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by FrozenDarkness View Post
A6 cant run a retina display. What r u guys smoking.
A6 can run a retina display. What r u guys smoking.

No, really, it can. It's as powerful as the A5X's GPU. It can achieve this speed because it implements traits of the new Cortex A15 architecture chips, including an expanded memory bus. Please, disagree with my opinions, but don't insult me with your drivel.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:55 PM   #19
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I predict no retina, but a better display.
So who cares what chip goes in it.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 07:24 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by w00t951 View Post
A6 can run a retina display. What r u guys smoking.

No, really, it can. It's as powerful as the A5X's GPU. It can achieve this speed because it implements traits of the new Cortex A15 architecture chips, including an expanded memory bus. Please, disagree with my opinions, but don't insult me with your drivel.
It has half the memory bandwidth and the mere fact you mentioned the A15 which is a cpu and not the gpu makes me wonder
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 07:49 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by irDigital0l View Post
They launched the iPad Mini in Fall because that was the only time they could...and they also updated the iPad due to increasing competition from Nexus 10 and Surface.

Basically, Retina is going to happen in spring time. HTC is already planning to release Windows 8 7-inch and 12-inch tablets to compete. There's going to be a ton of stuff at CES, expect Samsung to also step up. Also rumors that Microsoft is considering a price drop for the Surface.
They didn't launch the iPad 4 because of competition - the only reason they didn't do a silent upgrade (due to the feature set not being something that normally warrants an announcement and big launch) is because they wanted to let everyone know the product is new and good for an entire cycle, meaning one year (typical iPad refresh cycle). They will launch all iPads, iPhones, iPods in the autumn time frame, just before the holidays from now on.

They are currently having stock issues with the mini, in order to get ready for a new launch they would have to stockpile for weeks or months in order to meet demand day one. They would never do that when they have so much demand for the current product they can't meet it - it's not good business to upgrade a product where demand exceeds supply for the existing product. And there is a whole conversation we could have regarding the possibility that retina can even be made to work in the mini (while retaining the mini's main "magical" attraction, it's form factor and battery life).

Apple does yearly (or longer) release cycles for all its products, and this recent mini launch (and iPad 4 "tag along") was the resetting of the launch date for the iPad family. There will be no retina mini in March or Spring time.

The competition will always be doing something, but I would never use it to predict any reaction from Apple. And any price drop for the Surface is due to lack of demand.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:06 PM   #22
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It has half the memory bandwidth and the mere fact you mentioned the A15 which is a cpu and not the gpu makes me wonder
Did you know that ARM devices run on SoCs, or System On Chip configurations? So the processor is managing memory bandwidth to the graphics processor, which is - you guessed it - on the chip?

A15 isn't a CPU, it's a reference architecture licensed by ARM to other companies. TI, Samsung, Qualcomm, and Apple all base their designs off the latest ARM architecture. In recent months, the A9 generation has been updated to the A15 architecture, which supports faster dual channel memory in comparison to the preceding A9.

The previous generation of SoCs supported ARMv7 instruction sets, and the A15 series supports ARMv7A instruction sets. The move helps take advantage of the improved memory bus of the newer SoC design.

The A6 series of Apple processors incorporates features of the Cortex A15 architecture into their existing A9 designs. Memory bandwidth has been improved - current SoC GPUs were limited in their performance by the memory bandwidth.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by w00t951 View Post
Did you know that ARM devices run on SoCs, or System On Chip configurations? So the processor is managing memory bandwidth to the graphics processor, which is - you guessed it - on the chip?

A15 isn't a CPU, it's a reference architecture licensed by ARM to other companies. TI, Samsung, Qualcomm, and Apple all base their designs off the latest ARM architecture. In recent months, the A9 generation has been updated to the A15 architecture, which supports faster dual channel memory in comparison to the preceding A9.

The previous generation of SoCs supported ARMv7 instruction sets, and the A15 series supports ARMv7A instruction sets. The move helps take advantage of the improved memory bus of the newer SoC design.

The A6 series of Apple processors incorporates features of the Cortex A15 architecture into their existing A9 designs. Memory bandwidth has been improved - current SoC GPUs were limited in their performance by the memory bandwidth.
Didnt read this wall of text, all i got to tell you is the a6 has half the memory bandwidth as the a5x according to anandtech. Take it or leave it.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:46 AM   #24
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iPad Mini, A7, Retina
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iPad 5, iPhone 5 styling, A7X

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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:48 AM   #25
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Apple's doing too much with these iPads. There's 5 versions of the iPad out right now and all of them basically work the same lol except for maybe the first one because it doesn't have a front camera. There hasn't been any "defining" features to set them out. For all intents and purposes the iPad 4 is just a redesigned iPad 3 to move products towards lightning. Instead they stuck an A6x in there while it's the fastest on the market I'm sure if we are using a tablet we can wait a extra second.
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