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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:28 AM   #1
beleddie
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Mac G4 processor exchange.

Hi, I have a G4 . It was the last model built. 1.25 Single processor, 2 gigs ram, Ati 64 megs and running at 167 bus, firmware 4.3.?
I bought a Mac 1.0 ghtz dual processor ( for 8.00, too good to miss and with a 7 day warranty ), to give me a little extra speed. According to all I have read it should be just a matter of removing the old and inserting the new. Not so!
After inserting the DP and before booting I unscrewed the heat sink and checked for contact between the heat sink face and the processor. Two white contacts showed.
I booted the comp and got a kernel attack. Switched off and rechecked the processor all appeared well.
Rebooted only this time ( and several subsequent attempts ) all I got was 20 seconds of nothing and then the fan went into overdrive.( I have never heard the fan go into overdrive, this comp runs very cool, idle 22 C and never more than 29 C at its hottest ).
During the 20 seconds of nothing the screen shows a " no signal " so I am assuming the MB isn't getting power. There isn't time for the processor to heat up to bring the fan on so its got me stumped.
I put the 1.25 back in and the comp boots up perfectly.
I would appreciate any help .
cheers,
Eddie.

PS. The power supply is an ATX 350amp which I hooked up a couple of years ago after the original Mac PSU stopped working. Therefore the White 25 amp isn't available. Possible cause?

Last edited by beleddie; Dec 21, 2012 at 01:39 AM.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:35 AM   #2
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Check if there any bent pins on CPU daughtercard connector. Since 1.0 DP and 1.25 single use 167 MHz bus, swap should be plug & play. Fans will blast at full speed when unrecoverable hardware problem is detected during POST.
Anyways it's problem with your new CPU.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:52 AM   #3
beleddie
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Originally Posted by 666sheep View Post
Check if there any bent pins on CPU daughtercard connector. Since 1.0 DP and 1.25 single use 167 MHz bus, swap should be plug & play. Fans will blast at full speed when unrecoverable hardware problem is detected during POST.
Anyways it's problem with your new CPU.
Thank you for your reply and the fan tip.
The pins were the first thing I looked for when it wouldn't boot. They're all straight.
I got a message back from the seller who said they didn't think a dual would work on a single motherboard. Shows you how much they know.
I get my money back when I return the item.
Also no gong at start up.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:23 AM   #4
Nameci
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I would recommend the dual 1.42 or dual 1.25 G4 not the dual 1.0GHz. I have done swap from single 1.25 to dual 1.42 and it worked well.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:39 AM   #5
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Have you tried reseting SMU after the swap? You might try reseting Pram also if you get the machine to show picture. There was also dual 1ghz model with 133mhz fsb but I assume you know what you have.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:34 AM   #6
beleddie
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Originally Posted by Nameci View Post
I would recommend the dual 1.42 or dual 1.25 G4 not the dual 1.0GHz. I have done swap from single 1.25 to dual 1.42 and it worked well.
Nameci,

Oh! that one could afford such treasures. This is the UK not America. Either of the two cpu's would cost an arm and a leg. And when the worth of my G4 is approx US $40.00 the change over isn't feasible.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Zotaccian View Post
Have you tried reseting SMU after the swap? You might try reseting Pram also if you get the machine to show picture. There was also dual 1ghz model with 133mhz fsb but I assume you know what you have.
Re the 133 version. I have looked at them and they appear different in as much as the HSF and the cpu are all one piece . So I think I have the 167 version.
I haven't tried the SMU as the comp is running perfectly with the 1.25 SP. I have reset the Pram.
I did notice one thing when inserting the DP. When I insert the SP it just drops in, where as the DP has to be played with to get it to seat.
I have checked the DP with a magnifying glass and nothing looks burnt, swollen etc. And both cpu's are the same colour. I had read where one will/can be darker than the other.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:49 PM   #8
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OK, I was just thinking that if you are trying to put DP 1.0GHz FSB 133Mhz CPU to a 167MHz motherboard you are actually overclocking the CPU's and they might not take it. Multiplier is set from the CPU card and FSB by the board. This would been a logical explanation why it does not work.

Reseting SMU and maybe PRAM would probably be recommended since you are installing totally different type of CPU(s). PRAM & SMU resets fix many weird problems many times, once after software update I lost my iSight camera on my iMac G5, it was not listed on the system information, reseting SMU allowed OS X to detect it again.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 02:33 AM   #9
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^^^What a useless BS. There's no dual 1.0 133 MHz MDD CPU daughtercard. You can't put Quicksilver daughtercard into MDD. And 1.0 isn't "totally different type of CPU". Both 1.25 and 1.0 are that same CPU, 7455. 1.0 is usually A, 1,25 is could be A or B. That's only difference. How it is "totally"?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Zotaccian View Post
OK, I was just thinking that if you are trying to put DP 1.0GHz FSB 133Mhz CPU to a 167MHz motherboard you are actually overclocking the CPU's and they might not take it. Multiplier is set from the CPU card and FSB by the board. This would been a logical explanation why it does not work.

Reseting SMU and maybe PRAM would probably be recommended since you are installing totally different type of CPU(s). PRAM & SMU resets fix many weird problems many times, once after software update I lost my iSight camera on my iMac G5, it was not listed on the system information, reseting SMU allowed OS X to detect it again.
I think we can be assured that the DP is the 167 variety. It states it is on it.
i.e. KC2400LRN8PH..MPU 1GHZ DP.

And I think what you are guessing at is that the firmware on it is older than the newer 1.25/167?
So, if I insert the 1.0/167 and then reset the SMU it should boot up, Yes?

Ok. Gentlemen the time has come to call an end to this little saga.
I tried the C,C and P, R trick and there is no change. I have come to the conclusion that the 1.0 DP is crook, ( for our American friends that is Aussie for ********ed!.).

I thank you one and all for the assistance and help offered.

Eddie

Last edited by beleddie; Dec 22, 2012 at 05:44 AM. Reason: Addition.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 08:02 AM   #11
Zotaccian
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666sheep has some kind of problems with me.

I know that there is no MDD DP 1.0GHz, but there was DP 1.0GHz with 133MHz FSB and what I wanted to point out was I hope OP knew that he has compatible CPU, it would have been very logical reason that 133MHz CPU does not work on motherboard which has been set to 167MHz FSB. I have never swapped to CPU cards but I have over clocked couple. What I was offering here was one thing to consider, but if those CPU cards are not compatible, then that options is ruled out.

And resetting SMU and PRAM would be very reasonable thing to do since even with working Apple computers with no parts changed doing those can fix problems. Now OP was trying to replace single 1.25GHz with dual 1.0GHz so performing all resets when problems occur would be quite natural option to try, I think.

Again, dunno what problems 666sheep has, but the good thing is that he has them, not me.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotaccian View Post
666sheep has some kind of problems with me.

I know that there is no MDD DP 1.0GHz, but there was DP 1.0GHz with 133MHz FSB and what I wanted to point out was I hope OP knew that he has compatible CPU, it would have been very logical reason that 133MHz CPU does not work on motherboard which has been set to 167MHz FSB. I have never swapped to CPU cards but I have over clocked couple. What I was offering here was one thing to consider, but if those CPU cards are not compatible, then that options is ruled out.
"That option" was ruled out in the OP
The problem is, that you have no idea what are you talking about. If you'd had, you'd know that OP won't be able to physically fit "that 133 MHz bus 1.0 DP" from Quicksilver. If he did fit one he bought, guess what? OP has the right one? And "right one" 1.0 DP MDD daughtercard was manufactured only in 167 MHz variety? Bingo!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:21 PM   #13
Zotaccian
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Yes, I was guessing that it wouldn't work because of FSB difference, MB is set to 167MHz and CPU would have been set to 133MHz. Also the OP says that SP drops in nicely where as DP does not but of course if QS CPU's are not compatible then they are not.

PRAM and SMC resets are always what you should try when having strange problems with Macs, like iSight camera disappearing and old but still working battery showing weird stats after not being used for a long time (there are plenty of cases if you google, like: https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0 http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/45698/mdd-g4-pmu-reset http://hints.macworld.com/article.ph...05040811124189). What made me think that PRAM/SMU should be reset was that if the computer actually did boot up and load something (kernel panic occured?) there might have been problems with PRAM/SMU settings.

The CPU was probably fully working but if it was poorly inserted it probably died in this operation, if even those resets do not work.
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Last edited by Zotaccian; Dec 22, 2012 at 02:00 PM.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:26 PM   #14
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The CPU was probably fully working but if it was poorly inserted it probably died in this operation, if even those resets do not work.
Nope. Again you're wrong. You cannot kill CPU by that. Even static electricity (which impact is mostly overestimated) won't kill the CPU. Believe me or not, I've replaced hundreds of various parts in hundres of Macs and PCs without issues. But if something is dud, it's dud. Period. (tribute to zen.state)

CPU was DOA. Otherwise seller won't be selling it for 8-whatever currency. He (she) just didn't test it before selling, and this "8-something" was amount that he (she) wanted to risk.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 04:28 AM   #15
Zotaccian
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Well I have built several computers, performed reflows etc. It is true that I have never swapped G4 module, only overclocked couple.

But tell me if the cpu was originally broken then why did the computer display picture at first? Based on my experience broken cpu either shows no picture or shows but is unstable. With old AMD cpus it was not uncommon for customer to screw up installation, damage cpu (maybe get picture once) and then blame the seller.

And still, I don't understand why cannot one perform those resets just to rule things out, won't take much time and as those links show, it has helped in many situations.
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