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Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:33 PM   #26
amoebaruler
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Thumbs down

and who is going to carry this around to charge an iphone?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 08:51 PM   #27
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Angry well...

Yea I have to agree, apple are being jerks. I'm sick of propriety rubbish, way worse than sony ever was. Its a cheeky way to squeeze up the spend /per /user mentality.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:12 PM   #28
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Would it not have been prudent to obtain permission prior to soliciting funds?
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:00 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post

Apple may be doing themselves and their customers a disservice in being so restrictive around the lightning port.
There could be a valid engineering reason behind the restriction. We haven't seem the details of the MFI program or this project.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
There could be a valid engineering reason behind the restriction. We haven't seem the details of the MFI program or this project.
Quote:
we learned that they are no longer willing to approve a product that uses the Lightning charger alongside any other charger (including their own 30-pin - seriously). Just like that, POP could no longer fulfill its true promise.
Nope. It's just Apple being arsy and not wanting lightning devices to include plugs for other devices.

This is Apple at its worst.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:29 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Sardonick007 View Post
Would it not have been prudent to obtain permission prior to soliciting funds?
With a project that has no upfront funding, it would be impossible to secure a license. My guess is that the 3rd Party manufacturers like Belkin, Griffin, ZAGG, etc, all pay VERY hefty fees to license the technology from Apple and heftier fees to have their production lines certified by Apple as part of the "Made for iDevice" program. Eight digit fees just to get started would be my guess. Joe Schmuck Kickstarter company isn't going to have that kind of money to pay Apple's fees.

I'm sure they were trying to use their Kickstarter funds to negotiate paying the licensing fees at a reduced rate. Apple's legal team probably sneered at their offer, and explained that if they cut one small company a break, the big dogs would be pissed and start demanding discounts as well.

Actually, the more likely scenario is that Apple explained nothing to this company and simply sent a two-word email back to the CEO in response to the request for negotiations: "No Thanks."
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by superman23 View Post
they would be sued.
Doubt it for the tiny size of their project.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
Nope. It's just Apple being arsy and not wanting lightning devices to include plugs for other devices.
Nothing wrong with that to bring up uniformity and simplicity in a market. All these multi-function chargers and adaptors I've bought through the years have always had a very short working life ie. Waste of money.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post

This is Apple at its worst.
If so, then this is the nicest thing someone's said about Apple in years. In the end this isn't a big deal. Consumers are moving to wireless (Airplay & Bluetooth) for audio/video products and really there's going to be fewer needs for legacy contraptions that probably won't work well.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:14 AM   #34
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It's just Apple doing what they've always done, being a company that locks in users for profit. Nothing new, Apple has the ability to sell what many others could not.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:41 AM   #35
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So, wait, Apple is becoming "the man"?

How did this band of rebels become so misguided by a moment of success?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:51 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
You may feel like that, but one of the best things about the 30-pin ecosystem was the sheer number and variety of accessories there were.

Apple may be doing themselves and their customers a disservice in being so restrictive around the lightning port.
Doesn't the new cable includes a chip that transmits and receives on one end (or was it on both ends)? That is probably much more complicated to implement than just a mechanical connector from a 5 wire cable to 30 pin metal leads. Then, somebody has to run tests to make sure any new accessory is compatible with all the other products out there, current and future, and debug them if issues come up. I would not want to deal with these fly by night, mom and pop operations, either. Their immature comments and the sudden cancellation of the project makes Apple's rejection sound like a good business direction.

In the meantime, you are free to buy backwards engineered, non-certified products at a lower price and take your chances on quality. Amazon is pretty good with returns.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:44 AM   #37
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Thumbs down Silly Apple

If Apple were serious about encouraging people to adopt the new connector, they should make the specification available to all companies, including other mobile phone companies. Instead, they choose to get in the way of a start-up. Does Apple, which touts its green credentials, want me to discard all my legacy i-devices before their time? From the look of things they do. Why not simply offer the start-up a limited licence, say for three years? Then they could encourage the start-up to move completely to the new connector.

Bad .
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 06:12 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
If Apple were serious about encouraging people to adopt the new connector, they should make the specification available to all companies, including other mobile phone companies. Instead, they choose to get in the way of a start-up. Does Apple, which touts its green credentials, want me to discard all my legacy i-devices before their time? From the look of things they do. Why not simply offer the start-up a limited licence, say for three years? Then they could encourage the start-up to move completely to the new connector.

Bad .
We have no idea what the terms of the MFI platform are. It's obvious that, whatever they are, this company didn't meet them.

If you want to license someone's technology - you have to do it in a way that pleases them, or at least abides by their rules of doing so. I also think this guy is using Apple as a scapegoat for cancelling the project, having realised he might not make as much money as anticipated - people backed the project with it not supporting lightning, not having lightning is no reason to cancel it. And his reply makes him sound like the kind of person who would be like that (no business publicly calls their rivals/other companies "jerks").
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:23 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Eriden View Post
With a project that has no upfront funding, it would be impossible to secure a license. My guess is that the 3rd Party manufacturers like Belkin, Griffin, ZAGG, etc, all pay VERY hefty fees to license the technology from Apple and heftier fees to have their production lines certified by Apple as part of the "Made for iDevice" program. Eight digit fees just to get started would be my guess. Joe Schmuck Kickstarter company isn't going to have that kind of money to pay Apple's fees.

I'm sure they were trying to use their Kickstarter funds to negotiate paying the licensing fees at a reduced rate. Apple's legal team probably sneered at their offer, and explained that if they cut one small company a break, the big dogs would be pissed and start demanding discounts as well.

Actually, the more likely scenario is that Apple explained nothing to this company and simply sent a two-word email back to the CEO in response to the request for negotiations: "No Thanks."
i dont think the fee is that bad. if you're a big company trying to sell an Apple Dock to Best Buy for $10, you might have a problem. the problem is getting approved by Apple. First, you have to follow all of their rules which severely limits creativity. Then, you have to submit your product for approval which is a process that could take years and bankrupt you. And then you get approved a week before the Lightning connector comes out (which had to be kept super secret) and so you have to start all over again! I don't know why any small business would still want to work with Apple. Enough already..
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:27 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
If so, then this is the nicest thing someone's said about Apple in years. In the end this isn't a big deal. Consumers are moving to wireless (Airplay & Bluetooth) for audio/video products and really there's going to be fewer needs for legacy contraptions that probably won't work well.
This is for power charging.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
We have no idea what the terms of the MFI platform are. It's obvious that, whatever they are, this company didn't meet them.

If you want to license someone's technology - you have to do it in a way that pleases them, or at least abides by their rules of doing so. I also think this guy is using Apple as a scapegoat for cancelling the project, having realised he might not make as much money as anticipated - people backed the project with it not supporting lightning, not having lightning is no reason to cancel it. And his reply makes him sound like the kind of person who would be like that (no business publicly calls their rivals/other companies "jerks").
2 things :

- The Article if you read it clearly states that Apple's reason for refusing the license was that the product would include other interfaces along with Lightning.
- The guy promised Lightning support before the end of his kickstarter but before Apple introduced the connector and provided licensing information, and thus now cannot deliver and will reimburse people.

The product is not cancelled, only the kickstarter funding. It says so right there in the nice article no one apparently bothered reading before jumping in to apologize for Apple on this.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:30 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by komodrone View Post
remove the wires and have 6 usb ports instead, then bundle detachable short wires
Absolutely. I wouldn't buy a product like this with permanent wires. Honestly, how could so many people want this and support the Kickstart? Apple may be being jerks, but I think they just saved all the customers.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:39 AM   #42
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1. Nix the built in cables and put a handful of USB ports in the bottom
2. Too big, not exactly portable
3. IMHO Integrated cables are a bad idea, any damage will result in sending the unit out for repair

I use a ~$80 Trent iCarrier 12,000mAH @ 5V = 60Wh (most chargers mAH rate their devices at 3.7V so buyer beware). The POP has a rating of 26,000mAH but no indication of the much more useful WH (Apple rates their batteries in WH).

Anyway. They got $100k so I guess there's a market.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:44 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by theBB View Post
Doesn't the new cable includes a chip that transmits and receives on one end (or was it on both ends)? That is probably much more complicated to implement than just a mechanical connector from a 5 wire cable to 30 pin metal leads. Then, somebody has to run tests to make sure any new accessory is compatible with all the other products out there, current and future, and debug them if issues come up. I would not want to deal with these fly by night, mom and pop operations, either. Their immature comments and the sudden cancellation of the project makes Apple's rejection sound like a good business direction.

In the meantime, you are free to buy backwards engineered, non-certified products at a lower price and take your chances on quality. Amazon is pretty good with returns.
These guys were trying to license from Apple.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:24 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Sardonick007 View Post
Would it not have been prudent to obtain permission prior to soliciting funds?
Please describe how they should have done that. They were funded before the iPhone5 was released, so was a previous kickstarter project of theirs a time machine?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:36 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by timd.mackey View Post
This project was developed and funded months ago, before the iPhone 5 was ever announced. There's no way the company could have predicted that Apple would create such a ridiculous arbitrary rule like this.
If thats the case, then they never promised a lightning connector to their backers in the kickstarter project and they have no reason to cancel the project. Just make it as it was originally described.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:16 AM   #46
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Absolutely. I wouldn't buy a product like this with permanent wires. Honestly, how could so many people want this and support the Kickstart? Apple may be being jerks, but I think they just saved all the customers.
Exactly. Just put the USB ports on it and you don't even have to ship it with the cables since everyone has their own. In fact, by not including the cables, you don't make it an 'Apple' product, you make it a universal portable charger.

Last edited by Ryth; Dec 21, 2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:24 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
These guys were trying to license from Apple.
Licensing is just a contract and delivering technical documents is only the easiest part that comes after it. Who certifies that their accessory works properly? If problems come up, who assists them in debugging to see on which end lies the problem? Large suppliers routinely turn away small customers to save on support costs. This is not all that unusual.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:33 AM   #48
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This project was developed and funded months ago, before the iPhone 5 was ever announced. There's no way the company could have predicted that Apple would create such a ridiculous arbitrary rule like this.
The project was developed and funded months ago, before the Lightning connector was ever announced. They should deliver the product they were funded to deliver, rather than blaming Apple because a design change attempted *after* the close of the funding drive didn't pan out.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:15 PM   #49
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Calling Apple jerks probably won't help their cause much! I don't imagine it will help in future negotiations or trying to have the product stocked at Apple. Not the brightest thing to do.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:56 PM   #50
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Crisis Averted:

Apple Reverses Course on 30-Pin and Lightning Connector Guidelines
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1512251
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