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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:05 AM   #51
Brian Y
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
Using GLUE on consumer electronics, in fact, on an item which will get hot during use and break down the glue over time, is crap and badly thought out..

I see peoples screens falling out of these iMacs after they have been used for a year and half, and your only option will be to re-glue.

Magnets would have been, and have already been used as, a more intelligent, inherently superior solution, glue is just cost cutting to up the profit margin.

Screws would have been an inherently superior choice over GLUE... glue is NEVER the best option, glue degrades over time with environmental factors, screws do not.
So where do you suggest they screw the screen into? Logic tells you that if you want the glass/LCD to be a single unit, and the rear housing to be unibody, there can be no screws.

Apple have ALWAYS put design over practicality - if you see one of the new iMacs in the flesh, the first thing you'll say is "Wow that's thin". Nevermind that it's not much thinner in the middle than the old one, and the footprint is the same - it looks striking, that's what Apple have always done (and quite frankly, what they do best).

The % of people who open the iMacs is incredibly small - and to be honest, I'd rather have to heat some glue, than have to spend an hour removing dust from between the LCD and glass. Same goes for the VESA mount - in ~ 2 years servicing iMacs - I've seen one person who has it mounted - myself.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 10:31 AM   #52
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by SlugBlanket View Post
With the exception of the reduction of screen glare, this current iMac for me is a step backwards in real world ease of use.
If they'd offer a matte screen without the glass, it would be even thinner and no glare at all...
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:04 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by bma View Post
So where do you suggest they screw the screen into? Logic tells you that if you want the glass/LCD to be a single unit, and the rear housing to be unibody, there can be no screws.

Apple have ALWAYS put design over practicality - if you see one of the new iMacs in the flesh, the first thing you'll say is "Wow that's thin". Nevermind that it's not much thinner in the middle than the old one, and the footprint is the same - it looks striking, that's what Apple have always done (and quite frankly, what they do best).

The % of people who open the iMacs is incredibly small - and to be honest, I'd rather have to heat some glue, than have to spend an hour removing dust from between the LCD and glass. Same goes for the VESA mount - in ~ 2 years servicing iMacs - I've seen one person who has it mounted - myself.
I agree , screws in this case would be inelegant, however, magnets, as used in previous models would give the same lines, and be easier to maintain should something go wrong.

the % of people i know who have, as a minimum, added ram to a computer is 100%, the amount who have had to replace a HDD due to failure is probably around 50%, these iMacs do not let users perform basic maintenance easily.

It would be like ford saying you cant change your wiper blades, replace a tyre, or spark plugs, or oil or fill up anywhere but at an approved ford garage...
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:53 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by SlugBlanket View Post
This and placing the SD card slot on the back of the display are imo really bad design choices.

I would have thought that making a large display such as this able to be mounted to a wall or an arm were commonsense design criteria. It's also well known that Apple users by and large tend to want their hardware to look it's best at all times. Having the card slot located at the back is going to result in many machines either getting scratched as we photographers fumble to locate the slot or users rotating the display on a regular basis which tends to be annoying.

I accept that for many an internal DVD drive is a bit of a dinosaur. I personally only use the drive to burn my CD's to a lossless format since I invested many years ago in a very high quality audio system. With the exception of the reduction of screen glare, this current iMac for me is a step backwards in real world ease of use.

I'm now faced with the prospect of having to mount the display on a Lazy Susan so that I can rotate it easily and/or have more cables and peripherals attached (DVD Drive, USB Card Reader). This for me is taking the shine off the point of an all-in-one.
I agree - not thrilled with some of the changes. I get why Apple wants to funnel people towards iTunes instead of physical media, but I do still use my DVD player/burner quite a bit.

I have my iMac sitting on a desk and it will still be a pain in the rear to access the card slot and with the amount of time I spend on my photography hobby, this just won't work well for me. So I guess I'll have to have an external drive and a card reader sitting on my desk. Yuk.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:55 AM   #55
Brian Y
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
I agree , screws in this case would be inelegant, however, magnets, as used in previous models would give the same lines, and be easier to maintain should something go wrong.

the % of people i know who have, as a minimum, added ram to a computer is 100%, the amount who have had to replace a HDD due to failure is probably around 50%, these iMacs do not let users perform basic maintenance easily.

It would be like ford saying you cant change your wiper blades, replace a tyre, or spark plugs, or oil or fill up anywhere but at an approved ford garage...
The problem with magnets IMO - is that they're not *that* strong in their current form - and you'd need quite a large piece of metal for them to grip onto.

Magnets work well with the current glass, but the LCD is about 10 times heavier than a piece of glass, and it'd take some serious magnets to make sure that stayed in no matter what.

With the SD slot - putting it on the *side* was the worst design decision, not the back! Do you how many iMacs I've had to shake the SD card out of when people have slotted it into the DVD drive :P.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:00 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
.

With the SD slot - putting it on the *side* was the worst design decision, not the back! Do you how many iMacs I've had to shake the SD card out of when people have slotted it into the DVD drive :P.
The new iMacs do not have a DVD drive, so this can't happen.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:13 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post
Is it me or is Apple slowly turning from a respected maker of high-quality, versatile products into a company that makes "cheap disposable crap", only without the cheap part?
it's you. really. only a fool would dispose of his macbook pro or iphone simply because it required a battery replacement down the road. thats like me tossing my car if i had to bring it into the shop for its 2-year or 4-year tune up.

as for cheapness, the macbook airs start at $999, macs $599, ipads $329, ipods $50, and iphones at $0. how much cheaper can you get? in years past those prices were considered insanely low, and today we get so much more functionality at those price points than ever before.

so yeah, its you.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daneoni View Post
...and for what, a few more millimetres of thinness. Form over function at its finest.
it's a desktop pc. it's function and form is designed for the desktop primarily. anything else, such as wall mounts, is gravy...not the core "job to be done" problem it solves.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroked View Post
I see the resale price of used macs going down, in the near future.
ah, you must be another future analyst... they all see bad things for apple, and have for 13 years. and yet, here we are....

Last edited by mdelvecchio; Dec 21, 2012 at 01:08 PM.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:14 PM   #58
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So what? This is the reason apple made it so thin and light. No need for a wall mount, just rub it against your jumper for a bit and the static will adhere it to the wall.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:20 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ScottishCaptain View Post
Welcome to the future, where repairability doesn't exist and everything is disposable.
1) what sort of "repairs" do average consumers make to their all-in-one devices? how about TVs? high-end receivers?

2) apple designs products for mass market consumers, not repairmen.

3) who in their right mind would "dispose" of a laptop that only needed a replacement battery service in 4 or more years? just like my car, id bring it in for that routine service. unlike my car, it only costs a couple hundred bucks....just like other high-end notebook batteries.

...you repair enthusiasts need to wake up to reality and leave chicken-little behind.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBB View Post
I would not call replacing the battery on an iPhone "easy".
having just done this on my gf's iphone 4, yes, i would call replacing it "easy" on the enthusiast scale.... it involved removing two screws, sliding the back off, removing another screw, popping off a clip, and then unplugging the battery. took 10 mins.

but again, any sort of repair like this is purely for enthusiasts, not average consumers. just like all the other average users who dont perform upgrades on even their tower computers and would bring it in to me at Best Buy to install modems, vid cards, RAM, etc...
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:06 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
Using GLUE on consumer electronics, in fact, on an item which will get hot during use and break down the glue over time, is crap and badly thought out..

I see peoples screens falling out of these iMacs after they have been used for a year and half, and your only option will be to re-glue.

Magnets would have been, and have already been used as, a more intelligent, inherently superior solution, glue is just cost cutting to up the profit margin.
so where did you get your manufacturing & engineering degrees from? what company do you produce for? where can we see your products?

orrrrr are you just some dude on the interwebs who doesnt know squat about squat but likes to punch out his rage on the keyboard?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:11 PM   #61
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Of course it doesnt fit and norm. Apple needs to offer its own at 300% markup to its nearest competitor, then license it. LOL
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:25 PM   #62
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You hanging it up wrong.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:19 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by skunk View Post
Is it compatible with any mount at all?
It's compatible with my duck tape mount ™.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:47 PM   #64
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Apple should just buy VESA.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:56 AM   #65
organerito
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Originally Posted by mdelvecchio View Post
orrrrr are you just some dude on the interwebs who doesnt know squat about squat but likes to punch out his rage on the keyboard?
Welcome to the club!
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:34 AM   #66
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Hi,

Even though no one gives a toss about how thin the iMac is we're going to waste time and effort solving a " problem" no one has. Oh and we're going to break stuff that used to work.

Signed,

Apple

P.S. We hate your freedom.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelvecchio View Post
only a fool would dispose of his macbook pro or iphone simply because it required a battery replacement down the road. thats like me tossing my car if i had to bring it into the shop for its 2-year or 4-year tune...
Yeah, so making a laptop where you can't replace the battery is pretty stupid huh? Or is that simple concept beyond your grasp?
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:59 AM   #67
Oui
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Originally Posted by Kludge420 View Post
Hi,

Even though no one gives a toss about how thin the iMac is we're going to waste time and effort solving a " problem" no one has. Oh and we're going to break stuff that used to work.

Signed,

Apple

P.S. We hate your freedom.

----------



Yeah, so making a laptop where you can't replace the battery is pretty stupid huh? Or is that simple concept beyond your grasp?
Dear you
Don't buy one

Signed,
Apple
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 08:33 AM   #68
Brian Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kludge420 View Post
Hi,

Even though no one gives a toss about how thin the iMac is we're going to waste time and effort solving a " problem" no one has. Oh and we're going to break stuff that used to work.

Signed,

Apple

P.S. We hate your freedom.

----------



Yeah, so making a laptop where you can't replace the battery is pretty stupid huh? Or is that simple concept beyond your grasp?
The battery can be replaced, by Apple, for a fee ($199). This will be for a battery that is capable of holding 80% of its charge after 1000 cycles.

Dell, for example, will sell you a 9 cell battery for your Inspiron 1501 (model picked since it's one I happen to have here) - for $119. This will last approx 300 cycles before it holds 80%, and, from experience, a cycle will happen in about 4 hours, as opposed to the 7 in the rMBP.

Which seems like better value when you do the math ($1999 is 10% of rMPB cost - $119 is about 20% of the dell's value when new).

Anyone who throws out a laptop simply because they don't want to pay $199 for a new battery is either foolish or ignorant. Just because you can't go buy a $20 clone from china which will probably destroy your $2,000 machine, doesn't mean the battery cannot be replaced.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:42 AM   #69
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by bma View Post
With the SD slot - putting it on the *side* was the worst design decision, not the back! Do you how many iMacs I've had to shake the SD card out of when people have slotted it into the DVD drive :P.
Finally we have reason why Apple hates ODD.
Technicians removing sd-cards from slot-open drives just cost too much and Ives doesn't like tray-loading ODD, since it once poke his nose...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelvecchio View Post
1) what sort of "repairs" do average consumers make to their all-in-one devices? how about TVs? high-end receivers?
Opening one screw to open door for changing batteries is done with every gadget on the planet that runs on batteries. If adding RAM is essentially the same thing, how hard this can be? Do you also call for technician to change light bulb?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
The battery can be replaced, by Apple, for a fee ($199). This will be for a battery that is capable of holding 80% of its charge after 1000 cycles.
It is nice that Apple is forced to use high quality batteries, since otherwise they'd have to pay for changing batteries within 2 years from purchase in many countries.
But I believe most people would change the battery by themselves, if they could buy a battery from Apple in half price and needed only open few screws.
If changing batteries wouldn't be good business for Apple, they could offer the option for their customers to change batteries by themselves. But since Apple doesn't give this option...
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:57 AM   #70
Brian Y
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Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
Finally we have reason why Apple hates ODD.
Technicians removing sd-cards from slot-open drives just cost too much and Ives doesn't like tray-loading ODD, since it once poke his nose...

Opening one screw to open door for changing batteries is done with every gadget on the planet that runs on batteries. If adding RAM is essentially the same thing, how hard this can be? Do you also call for technician to change light bulb?

It is nice that Apple is forced to use high quality batteries, since otherwise they'd have to pay for changing batteries within 2 years from purchase in many countries.
But I believe most people would change the battery by themselves, if they could buy a battery from Apple in half price and needed only open few screws.
If changing batteries wouldn't be good business for Apple, they could offer the option for their customers to change batteries by themselves. But since Apple doesn't give this option...
There's no way they make a profit on the service on the rMPB. On the cMBP, to replace the to case, display and battery would have cost over £250, plus £24 labour. On the rMBP battery replacement program, they charge £159 including labour.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 11:10 AM   #71
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Apple claimed that iPad mini has thin lines between screen and edges but not a this one, I saw it 21 inches on Apple store. to "make" a "Thinnest" edge on iMac they had to make wider annoying black lines which is not so edge to edge screen.
these every single iMac related posts making me believe that i made a right choice buy choosing mini instead of an iMac
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 11:15 AM   #72
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It's the bulge in the center. Mounted on a wall, the edges would be sticking out and it would not look as good as the old thicker one which can lay flat.

A slightly thicker one with ad disk drive for the real world and no chin, joined together with proper fasteners and not glue would be better. As would be the ability to do at least some maintenance on the thing. Just too big and expensive a device to be a throw-away.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 11:35 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by turtlez View Post
All the people complaining that there is a lack of credit on this news article are probably the ones who say that Apple doesn't innovate lol...

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I wouldn't call it cheapness. It is still made from aluminium and glass vs a plastic competitor. I wouldn't call pushing design further cheapness either even if you do not like the design.

Apple designs there products not to be opened by the user otherwise they would be making fat boxes like PCs to gain access to every component. They like to keep things simple and easy to choose. Imagine if there was a build your own mac where you could buy all the parts you needed from an Apple store and assemble it yourself. Apple would have a whole new nightmare to deal with. Steve Jobs said "don't spread yourself too thin".

While Apple may prevent access to user replaceable parts, it focuses on other things that competitors don't. Maybe you can call competitors cheapness for their lack of design innovation too but we already all do that anyway.
Its all about profit, need a new battery take it to Apple need a new HD/SSD back to Apple and i fear even a new MacPro will be a much less flexible self contained unit than it is currently with options via Thunderbolt add ons.
Thunder bolt is the way to by pass some of Apples restrictions,make the drives external,even add a PCIe slot but this kinda negates the "Thin" thing that Apple seem to be obsessed with at the moment plus they are not responsible for any non Apple additions that one might make

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Originally Posted by tomjleeds View Post
H in this usage = humble, not honest
IMHO H=Humble because we are British honesty should not come into question

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Satori View Post
Apple should just buy VESA.
And then they change it AVESA so fits only

Last edited by righteye; Dec 22, 2012 at 11:57 AM.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:15 PM   #74
toke lahti
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There's no way they make a profit on the service on the rMPB. On the cMBP, to replace the to case, display and battery would have cost over £250, plus £24 labour. On the rMBP battery replacement program, they charge £159 including labour.
No way?
Why not?
I'm not sure what you mean with c(!)MBP, but if changing case AND display AND battery costs £274, I don't see why expenses for changing the battery ONLY would be way less than £159. In other words, they probably make better profits with latter one.
Maybe even much more important aspect to Apple is, that because changing battery is so big effort, especially for those who don't live near appleStore (none in my country...), this lowers the step to buy a new one. If changing the battery would be as simple as changing the light bulb, the resale value of a macbook with bad battery would be of course much higher than it is now, but new customers don't know that there used to be time, when after a few years use Apple's laptops used to be worth more than average windows laptop when new.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:37 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Bubba Satori View Post
Apple should just buy VESA.
A = Association

Apple is a member of the Association. How do you buy yourself? Would the SEC approve?
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