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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:52 AM   #176
vastoholic
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The problem is that Apple has never specified what type of Aluminum they use so all this 6061 non tempered stuff is pure conjecture and speculation at this point.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:58 AM   #177
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The problem is that Apple has never specified what type of Aluminum they use so all this 6061 non tempered stuff is pure conjecture and speculation at this point.
Same material macbook air is made out of. It was confirmed a while back that it is 6061 non-tempered.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 11:59 AM   #178
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Same material macbook air is made out of. It was confirmed a while back that it is 6061 non-tempered.
Show me where. No search has revealed any such confirmation. A simple search of non-tempered aluminum yields no results for anything even using it. It all relates back to the different graded of tempering.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:51 PM   #179
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you know non-tempered is good for a phone right??
tempering the metal makes it more bendable (less britle), and less hard (more prone to chips..).
If the iPhone 5's material is already non-tempered...there isn't a lot else you can do to it to make it 'tougher' save for using another metal/alloy and thereby making the phone heavier again.
I myself prefer the weightier but tougher stainless steel of the iphone 4/4s.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:59 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
you know non-tempered is good for a phone right??
tempering the metal makes it more bendable (less britle), and less hard (more prone to chips..).
If the iPhone 5's material is already non-tempered...there isn't a lot else you can do to it to make it 'tougher' save for using another metal/alloy and thereby making the phone heavier again.
I myself prefer the weightier but tougher stainless steel of the iphone 4/4s.

btw:

yes, there are different grades to aluminium alloys... I was talking about pure aluminium
With all do respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. A T6 temper is 3X the hardness
of non-tempered 6061 aluminum. Tempering does not make the substance more bendable, malleable or more easily machined.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:06 PM   #181
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With all do respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. A T6 temper is 3X the hardness
of non-tempered 6061 aluminum. Tempering does not make the substance more bendable, malleable or more easily machined.
sorry, no YOU don't know what you're talking about.
Tempering does NOT harden metals. It is actually the opposite.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:04 PM   #182
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It's a gold mine of information here

Apple should take notes of all the advices given here: what metal to use, and when use aluminum, what type. As a matter of fact, they should fire all their engineers and hire the geniuses who posted here.

Crowd sourcing engineering - it's the future. Be afraid, be very afraid!
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:19 PM   #183
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Apple should take notes of all the advices given here: what metal to use, and when use aluminum, what type. As a matter of fact, they should fire all their engineers and hire the geniuses who posted here.

Crowd sourcing engineering - it's the future. Be afraid, be very afraid!
haha so good. and it's scary to think that I got all the information above to argue against that Rocko guy from a few sites on the internet...who needs college degrees?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:23 PM   #184
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This is the main reason I opted for a new 4S over the 5. I played with the 5 at ATT and damn, that thing felt delicate. Too light and too thin. I work a lot with my phone in my pocket and I would never trust this thing not to bend. Apple has definately gone too far with it's obsession with thin.

So, great. Get a new, thin, light iPhone 5, but make sure you put it in a huge, heavy case to protect it. Am I the only one that sees the stupidity in this?

(there's even another thread where a guy's iPhone 5 got hot and came out of his Otterbox case warped.)
A byproduct of the internet age - where a few phones have some manufacturing defect and we assume, because someone posts it on the internet, that all the millions of phones produced have the same defects.....

Guys, this stuff happens. It's just easier for people to talk about it now. You can't honestly assume that every iPhone made will come out flawless? So we have reports now of two bent iPhones and one that warped from heat in an Otterbox. That's a defect rate of about 0.00003%.....

Same goes for the scratches and the maps. People (the media only gobbles up all of it) have tons of ways to complain and whine and project their issues on the public. Just the way of the world. But stop assuming that all iPhone 5's are susceptible to bending because they are lighter and thinner.....mine hasn't bent nor has it scratched and i have just about the thinnest case you can buy on it (a spigen ultra thin air). Its been dropped once without the case and three times with the case - and yet nothing happened....

For every bent iPhone, there's about 3 million perfectly fine ones...
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:55 PM   #185
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Apple™, themselves, are responsible for the iPhone sitting so high on it's pedestal. Don't blame consumers when they complain about getting a bent/scratched phone out of the box or have one that bends or scratches with normal use in a matter of weeks. We're all being told to expect more from Apple.
You need to lay off the commercials, man. I recommend a Tivo.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:51 PM   #186
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sorry, no YOU don't know what you're talking about.
Tempering does NOT harden metals. It is actually the opposite.
You really have a horrible understanding on this subject. I suggest you study up.

6061 (6061-O temper) has maximum tensile strength no more than 18,000 psi (125 MPa), and maximum yield strength no more than 8,000 psi (55 MPa). Brinell hardness 30-33

T6 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength of at least 42,000 psi (300 MPa) and yield strength of at least 35,000 psi (241 MPa). Brinell hardness 92-95.

In layman's terms, T6 tempered is 2.3X the tensile strength, 3.1X the yield strength and 3X the hardness.



----------

Quote:
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haha so good. and it's scary to think that I got all the information above to argue against that Rocko guy from a few sites on the internet...who needs college degrees?
Yeah, all of it is wrong. I suggest community college.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:03 PM   #187
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This is just my experience. My iPhone 5 was in my front pocket. I was sitting down and my wife unexpectedly sat on my lap exactly where the iPhone was. I didn't realize until a good 5 seconds later that she was fully sitting on it. iPhone came out fine and was not bent.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:04 PM   #188
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Tempering does NOT harden metals. It is actually the opposite.
That's correct. Tempering efficiently improves an alloy's toughness, while reducing its hardness.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:09 PM   #189
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That's correct. Tempering efficiently improves an alloy's toughness, while reducing its hardness.
Not even close. 6061 T6 has 3X the harness as non-tempered 6061.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:15 PM   #190
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Not even close. 6061 T6 has 3X the harness as non-tempered 6061.
do you '+1' your own posts?
this i got not from a website: treating metal is done in two stages - hardening and tempering.

hardening hardens it, tempering is then subsequently done to soften it a bit but makes the metal less brittle.

bye the way, quoting mere specs impresses noone
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:18 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by teknikal90 View Post
do you '+1' your own posts?
this i got not from a website: treating metal is done in two stages - hardening and tempering.

hardening hardens it, tempering is then subsequently done to soften it a bit but makes the metal less brittle.

bye the way, quoting mere specs impresses noone
Facts are not meant to impress anyone. You can continue to ignore/dispute them and burp up whatever garbage you wish, won't change facts or make you appear any more intelligent.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:23 PM   #192
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Not even close. 6061 T6 has 3X the harness as non-tempered 6061.
What I said applies to the process of tempering. You probably have no idea what the goal of tempering is.
The effect tempering T6 produces on the 6061 is due to the composition of the alloy itself.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:25 PM   #193
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Facts are not meant to impress anyone. You can continue to ignore/dispute them and burp up whatever garbage you wish, won't change facts or make you appear any more intelligent.
please...show me the way... what credentials do you have and show me a reputable source that tempering metal hardens it.

all in all, I don't believe Apple skimped out on the quality of aluminium. they're just fighting against the properties of Aluminium. a compromise in material choice in order to reduce weight, and possibly, cost.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:38 PM   #194
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What I said applies to the process of tempering. You probably have no idea what the goal of tempering is.
The effect tempering T6 produces on the 6061 is due to the composition of the alloy itself.
I absolutely do. Your statement is broad and misleading. What is the purpose of throwing in how the process effects other alloys? Feeding the trolls who assume it pertains to AI?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:53 PM   #195
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I absolutely do. Your statement is broad and misleading. What is the purpose of throwing in how the process effects other alloys? Feeding the trolls who assume it pertains to AI?
Perhaps you absolutely don't.
My statement is not broad or misleading. I find it silly when people are wrong about something they have probably never studied, and stating that what I said is "Not even close." is just ridiculous. You probably have no idea what a 6061 is, what properties it has, the applications that benefit from its use. Furthermore, you probably have no idea what a T6 does to most alloys. Or even what it is. You can read about precipitated alloys in any technical book.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:57 PM   #196
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Perhaps you absolutely don't.
My statement is not broad or misleading. I find it silly when people are wrong about something they have probably never studied, and stating that what I said is "Not even close." is just ridiculous. You probably have no idea what a 6061 is, what properties it has, the applications that benefit from its use. Furthermore, you probably have no idea what a T6 does to most alloys. Or even what it is. You can read about precipitated alloys in any technical book.
Tempering efficiently improves an alloy's toughness, while reducing its hardness.

How does this pertain to the subject? The iPhones body, made from 6061? In this context(how the use of T6 Aluminum would have help lessen the issues that are arising with the phone bending) your statement is misleading.

Yes, I a sure you find it silly. Many people project onto others what they themselves lack, it's quite common.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:09 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Rocko1 View Post
Tempering efficiently improves an alloy's toughness, while reducing its hardness.

How does this pertain to the subject? The iPhones body, made from 6061? In this context your statement is misleading.
I simply quoted a correct statement about tempering. You quoted me, saying "Not even close.".
My statement is not misleading, as it refers to what tempering does. Heat treatments can, and do, have different effects on differerent groups of materials.
How does any of your posts pertain to the subject, anyways?

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Yes, I a sure you find it silly. Many people project onto others what they themselves lack, it's quite common.
I'm pretty sure you know nothing about tempering, T6, the 6061 alloy. And I bet you don't have a single technical book about anything that regards this area. It's quite silly that you don't know the reason behind the data you have reported, that's for sure.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:17 PM   #198
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I simply quoted a correct statement about tempering. You quoted me, saying "Not even close.".
My statement is not misleading, as it refers to what tempering does. Heat treatments can, and do, have different effects on differerent groups of materials.
How does any of your posts pertain to the subject, anyways?



I'm pretty sure you know nothing about tempering, T6, the 6061 alloy. And I bet you don't have a single technical book about anything that regards this area. It's quite silly that you don't know the reason behind the data you have reported, that's for sure.
You really are asking how tempered AI vs non-tempered pertains to the subject of bent iPhones? I can't help you if that is the case.

Pounding your chest of the ownership of some books is not only a waste of time but it's screams neediness. If you are as versed as you claim to be, again, you wouldn't be stating broad generic terms from a book you may have pulled from your grandfathers library that are not specific to the alloy in question. That is a clear sign you do not know what you are talking about.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:22 PM   #199
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You really are asking how tempered AI vs non-tempered pertains to the subject of bent iPhones? I can't help you if that is the case.

Pounding your chest of the ownership of some books is not only a waste of time but it's screams neediness. If you are as versed as you claim to be, again, you wouldn't be stating broad generic terms from a book you may have pulled from your grandfathers library that are not specific to the alloy in question. That is a clear sign you do not know what you are talking about.
sit down. you lose

http://www.asminternational.org/pdf/.../tempering.pdf

read first paragraph
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:29 PM   #200
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You really are asking how tempered AI vs non-tempered pertains to the subject of bent iPhones? I can't help you if that is the case.

Pounding your chest of the ownership of some books is not only a waste of time but it's screams neediness. If you are as versed as you claim to be, again, you wouldn't be stating broad generic terms from a book you may have pulled from your grandfathers library that are not specific to the alloy in question. That is a clear sign you do not know what you are talking about.
I'm sorry, what are the "broad generic terms" that I would be taking "from a book you may have pulled from your grandfathers library that are not specific to the alloy in question"?
Also, you seem to consider a "clear sign" something you're not really explaining. Care to?
The fact that you don't have a single technical book about heat treatments, and about aluminium alloys, tells a lot about your knowledge on the matter.
Also, can you explain, in as much detail as possible, how a T6 affects the 6061, and why the term "tempering" isn't technically acceptable in that case? (Hint: because it's not tempering at all. You can work on this, just in case you missed how wrong you are about it.)
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Last edited by LostSoul80; Dec 21, 2012 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Added a hint.
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