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Old Dec 17, 2012, 08:59 PM   #76
NovemberWhiskey
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Originally Posted by travis.hansen View Post
I bought an iPhone 5 that cam pre-dinged upon opening it. I took it back to the apple store and they brought me a replacement which they said was triple anodized and double inspected by AppleCare. The genius opened the box and the first thing I noticed was a ding on the top with the aluminum showing through so he walked right back and grabbed another one. 3rd time was the charm. That one was flawless.

It's kinda sad that they are having all these quality issues. They have to be losing a LOT of money and certainly their good reputation for quality.
lol. did he really say triple anodized?

"Inspected by Applecare" is almost like saying "inspected by a nearsighted hamster" They are supposed to be "remanufactured", wherein only the motherboard is reused, but I have SERIOUS doubts about that. I am sure they are recycling parts, and the quality control is atrocious.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:02 PM   #77
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Have we all overlooked the most likely explanation here?

"Me Chinese, me play joke..."
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:03 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by travis.hansen View Post
I bought an iPhone 5 that cam pre-dinged upon opening it. I took it back to the apple store and they brought me a replacement which they said was triple anodized and double inspected by AppleCare. The genius opened the box and the first thing I noticed was a ding on the top with the aluminum showing through so he walked right back and grabbed another one. 3rd time was the charm. That one was flawless.

It's kinda sad that they are having all these quality issues. They have to be losing a LOT of money and certainly their good reputation for quality.
thats typical he would say that
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:25 PM   #79
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That's what I am about to do.
Same issue. After a couple exchanges, realized the scratches and dents weren't going away any time soon. Bought a different phone and am completely happy.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:37 PM   #80
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I just thought I'd give my input as well. I have gone through a lot of phones. This includes original galaxy S, a string of HTC smart phones, some lg phones, the galaxy S2 and the galaxy S3 as well as the note 2. Every single one of the phones I've had except for the galaxy S3 has had a lot of quality control issues including defective screens, defective speakerphones, and defective earpieces among other things. (these are only the things I have experienced, others have had even more issues than these).

I bought a brand-new iPhone 5 32 GB white from a sprint store. I am a perfectionist (some ppl like it and some don't but it is what it is) and my iPhone is PERFECT. No clicking home button, no purple camera, no scratches, no dings...but just perfect. I got this phone two weeks ago and checking the manufacturing date shows that it was made sometime in October. I think that the first several batches of the phone had quality control issues but the more recent batches that are being made are a better buy because demand has gone down (still high but lower than launch day). When we get on the internet or on forums it makes it look like EVERYONE has a defective phone and that is not the case. Usually what happens is that the people that have defective phones are the vast majority of the people who take it on themselves to post on forums and stuff. I'd say to the OP to wait a few weeks or go to another Apple store....better yet just order online.

I'm currently in university studying business and we analyzed global sourcing companies. Our analysis (factual analysis) showed that Foxconn had a less than 2% defective rate in products assembled at their facility. This analysis was taken by work done by a third party (not related to Apple or Foxconn) who inspected products made at Foxconn.

Just thought I'd share as I'm a happy iPhone 5 owner. I hope others find the same experience as me.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:28 PM   #81
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While it is not reasonable to expect any machine-manufactured product to be truly flawless (no product can), we should absolutely have the right to demand that the product be produced within manufacturing tolerance of any defect.

By this, I mean the following.

No machine can produce a mold or part perfectly. There will also be errors. Human assembly is the same. This will also be errors. All manufacturing processes are set to some level of tolerance for defect.

For example, production of the aluminum case, in current operations, is set to have a tolerance of less than 0.02mm for dents. To expect less is your choice and your loss. By contrast, it is not unreasonable to expect this level of precision if this is doable and is practiced by the manufacturer.

Therefore, the question is not whether or not there is no flaw. The question is what is the level of tolerance. Any defect that can be seen by naked immediately exceeds the tolerance that is purportedly being demanded by Apple, thus justify a return. On the other hand, if someone complains of a scratch that can only be seen by high-power microscope, that those defects are below the tolerance and should not be grounds for return.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 04:39 AM   #82
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Well, I have just called Apple about the third defective iPhone 5 and they recommended me to try my luck for the fourth time. I have been told that many iPhone 5's are returned to Apple due to some issues with this phone, but people also seem to get replacements that are up to their expectations. So, I will try it again, I guess, and if the new one is scratched or has other problems, I will ask for a refund and buy the iPhone 5S in 2013.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 07:31 AM   #83
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I worked as a genius at an apple store here in Australia for about two years, and we had a lot of QC issues during the early days of iPhone 4 launches.

We had certain batches that would show up with recurrent issues. There was a two week period where every one out of two phones would be returned with a crackling speaker.

Then, on multiple occasions, we would get people return their phones 3-4 times for a replacement for the same issues.

When you ship a large number of phones like apple does, the majority of people probably won't have any issues, but it's not new with the 5, apple have always had certain issues with QC.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:44 AM   #84
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Good info.

Krimsonmyst, comparatively, however, is the iPhone 5 case issue more of a problem compared to the iPhone 4 issue? I am one of those who gave up after getting a number of iPhone units with obvious production defect that is simply unacceptable for a phone that costs over $1000 (in my country).

More importantly, do you know if there is a manufacturing date (week number) after which these QC issues have largely been mitigated? Or should we just wait until 2013 like the previous poster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimsonmyst View Post
I worked as a genius at an apple store here in Australia for about two years, and we had a lot of QC issues during the early days of iPhone 4 launches.

We had certain batches that would show up with recurrent issues. There was a two week period where every one out of two phones would be returned with a crackling speaker.

Then, on multiple occasions, we would get people return their phones 3-4 times for a replacement for the same issues.

When you ship a large number of phones like apple does, the majority of people probably won't have any issues, but it's not new with the 5, apple have always had certain issues with QC.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:08 PM   #85
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There is no "scuffgate". What there is, are a lot of users with unrealistic expectations that hold Apple products to a COMPLETELY different standard than they hold everything else to (and if you think I'm exaggerating, consider that we are literally talking (in most cases) about "scuffs" that can barely be seen with the naked eye and that require a zoom lens and special lighting in most cases just to photograph). It's a mass produced consumer electronic. It doesn't matter if it's $50 or $5000, if you put it under a microscope you WILL find "flaws". The argument of "I spent (insert $) so I am owed a flawless (xyz)" is laughable, and seemingly doesn't apply to anything but Apple products.

If anyone is unhappy with a teeny, tiny, "scuff": DON'T BUY ONE. Problem solved. The fact that they keep buying it over and over simply enables the supposed "problem" they are so unhappy about.

There IS no problem. Just unrealistic expectations based on what people think they are owed because they bought something with money.

Everything has flaws. If the teeny tiny "scuffs" make you lose sleep at night, go buy something else that has different flaws that you can live with.

It's not that difficult, and you aren't doing Apple any harm by buying the product (that has wronged you so very much) over and over.

Last edited by itjw; Dec 18, 2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 03:16 PM   #86
bjcskier
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It's frightening that Apple is still producing imperfect devices on week 49 and that one consumer gets three in a row that are imperfect / flawed out of the box.

This is a massive quality control issue that had better be fixed for the iPhone 5 - let alone for future devices.

For those who think this is okay - you are clueless.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 04:14 PM   #87
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I think QC is getting better. I swapped 3 week 49, 64 GB, 2 blacks, 1 white for different defects. Now I have a flawless, week 50 iPhone that I bought 2 days ago. My wife also got a 16 GB white, week 50 defect-free.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 05:38 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by maxap View Post
Well, I have just called Apple about the third defective iPhone 5 and they recommended me to try my luck for the fourth time. I have been told that many iPhone 5's are returned to Apple due to some issues with this phone, but people also seem to get replacements that are up to their expectations. So, I will try it again, I guess, and if the new one is scratched or has other problems, I will ask for a refund and buy the iPhone 5S in 2013.
Good idea, the S model is usually flawless since its not the first time they are making the form factor.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 05:51 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by timidhermit View Post
Good info.

Krimsonmyst, comparatively, however, is the iPhone 5 case issue more of a problem compared to the iPhone 4 issue? I am one of those who gave up after getting a number of iPhone units with obvious production defect that is simply unacceptable for a phone that costs over $1000 (in my country).

More importantly, do you know if there is a manufacturing date (week number) after which these QC issues have largely been mitigated? Or should we just wait until 2013 like the previous poster?
It seems to be a different area of concern. The 4's quality control issues seem to be related more to the internal components, where as the 5 is more external casing related.

I don't know which weeks the affected handsets were created, but like I said, it seemed that they came in batches.

IPhones in Australia start at around $700, so they're not cheap here either.

But I did have a few customers who I just gave refunds to, because they'd been through so many phones and were fed up.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 03:39 AM   #90
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There must be iPhone 5's out there that are flawless (or nearly flawless). So, I think that if you keep exchanging the flawed devices, you will eventually get a good one that lives up to your expectations. I will try it for the last time.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 08:24 PM   #91
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There must be iPhone 5's out there that are flawless (or nearly flawless). So, I think that if you keep exchanging the flawed devices, you will eventually get a good one that lives up to your expectations. I will try it for the last time.
There are indeed flawless iPhone 5's out there, so keep trying - you can't be that unlucky. After reading this thread and numerous others, I was very reluctant about upgrading my trusty old, though perfect, iPhone 4.

Yesterday, I picked up two sets (a white 16GB and a black 32GB, both unlocked) from Apple Store in Calgary and I'm happy to say after a thorough inspection these two are flawless.

In our case though, they won't be showing off their flawlessness as they both now reside inside OtterBox Defender cases, which FWIW is such an upgrade from the Defender cases for the 4/4S. My wife and I don't want to baby our phones but we do want to resell them later in like-new condition. I just sold my unlocked iPhone 4 16GB for $350.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 09:11 PM   #92
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Every time I see pictures of people's beat up iPhones out of the box, they are always circling scratches that are in places I'd never even have thought to look for a ding when I got my phone. I mean, do you guys go over these things with a magnifying glass when you get it searching for all these tiny dings?

I feel like the average person probably doesn't notice most of these things, and even most enthusiasts wouldn't think to scour their phone either, if it wasn't so blown up here on Macrumors.

I mean, just the other day some guy was on the iMac forum upset that his 27" iMac had a small ding like on these iPhones on the back bottom of his brand new computer! I mean, tiny, tiny. I don't think I've ever even looked at the back of my iMac.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:09 AM   #93
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Does it matter?

At the end of the day, Apple isn't making iPhone 5s with a level of quality that meets your expectations.

Personally, I wouldn't spend so much time being sad about it, or constantly swapping out. It is what it is. After three unsatisfactory tries, I'd personally move on to a different brand of phone that meets my expectations.
Exactly. I'll maybe come back once the 5s hopefully sorts it out.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by makotoisle View Post
Every time I see pictures of people's beat up iPhones out of the box, they are always circling scratches that are in places I'd never even have thought to look for a ding when I got my phone. I mean, do you guys go over these things with a magnifying glass when you get it searching for all these tiny dings?

I feel like the average person probably doesn't notice most of these things, and even most enthusiasts wouldn't think to scour their phone either, if it wasn't so blown up here on Macrumors.

I mean, just the other day some guy was on the iMac forum upset that his 27" iMac had a small ding like on these iPhones on the back bottom of his brand new computer! I mean, tiny, tiny. I don't think I've ever even looked at the back of my iMac.
I can't stand when people make excuses for poor production quality. Hey go buy a new car and tell me that it's ok if it came with a few scratches. I know I wouldn't be ok with that.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:31 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by bigjim83 View Post
Exactly. I'll maybe come back once the 5s hopefully sorts it out.

----------



I can't stand when people make excuses for poor production quality. Hey go buy a new car and tell me that it's ok if it came with a few scratches. I know I wouldn't be ok with that.
Find me a new car that's been sitting out on the lot that doesn't have imperfections.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 01:04 AM   #95
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I can sympathize with the OP. It took me 5 attempts to get the perfect phone, but I'm at last satisfied.
1)White 16GB was ok, but the screen would creak on one corner and had a minor scratch on the apple logo, I returned it after 20 days and got a 32GB.
2)White 32GB was bad, slow LTE plus several cosmetic defects. Returned it after 3 days.
3)Black 16GB, almost perfect, just a tiny scratch on the antenna band, but the fact is I liked the white version more, returned it after 28 days and got a White 32 GB.
4)White 32GB had a bad screen, interlacing lines and wouldn't connect to iTunes, returned it after 1 day.
5)White 32GB is finally perfect :-) .

All this has happened over the last 2+ months, I could easily return this phone and get my money back while having used an iPhone all along, but I won't because Apple never hesitated to honor my requests, gave me great service, and I was able to find the phone I wanted. If you are set on an iPhone 5, just try a couple of times more.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:42 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by bigjim83 View Post
Exactly. I'll maybe come back once the 5s hopefully sorts it out.

----------



I can't stand when people make excuses for poor production quality. Hey go buy a new car and tell me that it's ok if it came with a few scratches. I know I wouldn't be ok with that.
Do I look over my new vehicle and make sure there aren't any major dents or paint flaws? Yes. Do I go over it with a magnifier and say, "OH, sir, there is a small scuff by the port where you insert your keys! Bring me out another one!"

Absolutely not. And I'm sure it doesn't hurt my resale value, either, because most sane people aren't going to do that and notice, either.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 03:49 AM   #97
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Do I look over my new vehicle and make sure there aren't any major dents or paint flaws? Yes. Do I go over it with a magnifier and say, "OH, sir, there is a small scuff by the port where you insert your keys! Bring me out another one!"

Absolutely not. And I'm sure it doesn't hurt my resale value, either, because most sane people aren't going to do that and notice, either.
A car is 10000 times the mass of an iPhone and a 1000 times the surface area. You should scale your poor analogy.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:03 AM   #98
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 04:09 AM   #99
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Good luck buying Any phone with that perfection
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:17 AM   #100
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A car is 10000 times the mass of an iPhone and a 1000 times the surface area. You should scale your poor analogy.
And costs 50-100x what an iPhone does. It's a great analogy because they both lose a bunch if value as soon as they are purchased and as soon as they are used in the real world will quickly develop many more serious imperfections.

Even in the audiophile world where people are impeccably anal and keep their gear in flawless condition and reselling is commonplace I have never seen people go over their gear with a microscope before determining it acceptable. This is an Apple-only phenomenon and frankly it's embarrassing to the community as a whole.
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