Will 2013 / 2014 Mac Mini be slimmer ?

Acorn said:

its well known you can build a better faster pc then a mac mini, but its the design of the mac mini that attracts people.

Click to expand...

No. The Ivy Bridge Quad-Core i7 2.6 GHz (i7-3720QM) in the Mac mini is not much slower than the 3.4 GHz processor (i7-3770) in the iMac:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-3770+@+3.40GHz

+ You can create a Samsung 840 Pro SSD RAID 0, with a read speed of ≈ 1 GByte/s. And do not forget that the Mac mini has FW800, which many music/movie people need. People buy the Mac mini, because this machine provides good performance in a small form factor, and because you can use a display with a higher quality and other important components with the Mac mini.

Hexley said:

Apple's compact and elegant design partially allows them to price their products above commodity PC prices.

Click to expand...

The “same” Mac mini components just with Windows 7 Ultimate Edition and in a different enclosure cost much more than Apples hardware + OS. And btw. the Mac Pro is the cheapest Xeon-based workstation computer on the market.

Mr. Retrofire said:

The “same” Mac mini components just with Windows 7 Ultimate Edition and in a different enclosure cost much more than Apples hardware + OS. And btw. the Mac Pro is the cheapest Xeon-based workstation computer on the market.

Click to expand...

There you have it. Macs are cheaper.

Mr. Retrofire said:

The “same” Mac mini components just with Windows 7 Ultimate Edition and in a different enclosure cost much more than Apples hardware + OS. And btw. the Mac Pro is the cheapest Xeon-based workstation computer on the market.

Click to expand...

Well, I don't know if the comparison does even make much sense.

It's hard to find a desktop with a design similar to the Mac Mini. I just couldn't find any. The Mac Mini consists of laptop parts in a very compact desktop design, without a display.

But the specifications of the Mac Mini are nothing really special. Some laptops offer the very same configuration, for a similar price. The Samsung Series 3 NP300E5C-A08US and the Asus F75A-EH51, for instance, both have a Core i5-3210M, 4 GB RAM, 500 GB HD, and sell for a US$ 599 list price just as the lower-end Mac Mini. And, being laptops, they come with the screen and the keyboard.

If you want a PC desktop, you may find more powerful solutions at this price point, as they may be larger and use desktop parts (which are cheaper).

Whoever offers a unique product that is in demand can charge whatever fee they want. Sure they sell for far less than 1 million units a year but it isn't an issue for Apple.

Anyone like Asus or Samsung could "clone" a Mac mini and sell it for cheaper but no one does.

The Samsung and Asus lacks the unibody design, aluminum as a predominant enclosure material, Displayport, Thunderbolt and Firewire.

None of em measures 7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" @ 2.7lbs.

For a time I wished Apple would at least use 3.5" HDDs but it would add 1-2" in height, width and depth.

skaertus said:

Well, I don't know if the comparison does even make much sense.

It's hard to find a desktop with a design similar to the Mac Mini. I just couldn't find any. The Mac Mini consists of laptop parts in a very compact desktop design, without a display.

But the specifications of the Mac Mini are nothing really special. Some laptops offer the very same configuration, for a similar price. The Samsung Series 3 NP300E5C-A08US and the Asus F75A-EH51, for instance, both have a Core i5-3210M, 4 GB RAM, 500 GB HD, and sell for a US$ 599 list price just as the lower-end Mac Mini. And, being laptops, they come with the screen and the keyboard.

If you want a PC desktop, you may find more powerful solutions at this price point, as they may be larger and use desktop parts (which are cheaper).

Click to expand...

Hexley said:

Whoever offers a unique product that is in demand can charge whatever fee they want. Sure they sell for far less than 1 million units a year but it isn't an issue for Apple.

Anyone like Asus or Samsung could "clone" a Mac mini and sell it for cheaper but no one does.

The Samsung and Asus lacks the unibody design, aluminum as a predominant enclosure material, Displayport, Thunderbolt and Firewire.

None of em measures 7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" @ 2.7lbs.

For a time I wished Apple would at least use 3.5" HDDs but it would add 1-2" in height, width and depth.

Click to expand...

The previous post was claiming that the Mac Mini was in fact cheaper than Windows PCs with a similar configuration. In fact, it is not.

But you are right. Apple may choose to charge whatever it wants for the Mac Mini, since it is a unique design. But, as a result of that, the Mac Mini is not cheaper than PCs with similar configurations. Your statement will lead to the conclusion that the Mac Mini is more expensive because there is a general feeling of its uniqueness.

Said that, I think the Mac Mini misses the point. A light and well-constructed laptop is quite useful, as you travel with it. The Mac Mini is a desktop, and being made of aluminium or having a unibody design may be nice, but not of much use for a computer that will remain sitting on a desk.

99189,49

blanka said:

They should have done already, but they were lazy, so the Mini now eats into Pro/iMac/MacBook sales. Dumb if you ask me, but I like it.

Click to expand...

Can you provide a source for this information? I've not seen any reports of the Mini affecting any sales of other devices.

Whether it be cheaper or more expensive is something that will forever be in flux.

Most people will look at the parts most common between the PC and Mac, call it a day and claim the PC is cheaper. Nevermind the unique hardware found on the Mac or OS and apps that come with a Mac.

Talking about it ever further really is a exercise of futility. People who enjoyed the fit, finish and polish of the Mac will be hard to be swayed away from the so-called "walled garden". People who want to swap out new parts every month or so will dislike Macs all together. People tight on cash will think it ludicrous to spend so much on something shiny.

There are temps who budget their income to be able to buy a Starbucks every day. There are folks driving BMWs that will buy a "dumb phone" because spending anything more on a phone is silly.

The design and marketing objective of Apple for the Mac mini was for PC switchers. Hence the exclusion of I/O hardware.

Just to emphasis my point. Macs have been outselling PCs for 6 years despite the perception (warranted or unwarranted) that it is more expensive than a PC.

In light of the recession and other economic disasters this is an odd occurrence. One would think people would all jump on a netbook powered by Linux and Apache Office at this point in time.

Want a light and well constructed notebook? Look no further than a MBAir. I got one a few weeks earleir and it's a dream to use. Not going back to a MBPro!

skaertus said:

The previous post was claiming that the Mac Mini was in fact cheaper than Windows PCs with a similar configuration. In fact, it is not.

But you are right. Apple may choose to charge whatever it wants for the Mac Mini, since it is a unique design. But, as a result of that, the Mac Mini is not cheaper than PCs with similar configurations. Your statement will lead to the conclusion that the Mac Mini is more expensive because there is a general feeling of its uniqueness.

Said that, I think the Mac Mini misses the point. A light and well-constructed laptop is quite useful, as you travel with it. The Mac Mini is a desktop, and being made of aluminium or having a unibody design may be nice, but not of much use for a computer that will remain sitting on a desk.

Click to expand...

Personal Computers as a whole is a commodity product. Being a commodity means you cannot charge a lot without losing sales because another brand does the very same thing for less.

That being said Macs are unique Personal Computers thus Apple can charge more. Same with the iPod, iPad and iPhone.

That being said I hope the Haswell Mac mini will sell for $300 or 400. I need a HTPC.

Remember folks! If it wasn't for Macs PCs would all still be colored beige and still sport a floppy drive!

Imagine all the arguments they had in the 90s on it!

Hexley said:

Whoever offers a unique product that is in demand can charge whatever fee they want. Sure they sell for far less than 1 million units a year but it isn't an issue for Apple.

Anyone like Asus or Samsung could "clone" a Mac mini and sell it for cheaper but no one does.

The Samsung and Asus lacks the unibody design, aluminum as a predominant enclosure material, Displayport, Thunderbolt and Firewire.

None of em measures 7.7" x 7.7" x 1.4" @ 2.7lbs.

For a time I wished Apple would at least use 3.5" HDDs but it would add 1-2" in height, width and depth.

Click to expand...

Dell makes a tiny desktop. But, also not cheaper than the Mini. Or as small. They used to make one designed almost exactly like the prior Mini shape. It was about the same price back then, maybe slightly cheaper.

JAT said:

Dell makes a tiny desktop. But, also not cheaper than the Mini. Or as small. They used to make one designed almost exactly like the prior Mini shape. It was about the same price back then, maybe slightly cheaper.

Click to expand...

Dell's Zino which was introduced in late 2009 and ceased production early 2012. Sold for $468 vs the Mac mini's $499?

Review :http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/dell-inspiron-zino-hd/4505-3118_7-33946471.html

Death: http://kensegall.com/2012/05/the-mysterious-death-of-dell-zino/

Dimensions: 7.8" x 7.8" x 3.4"

I would have honestly bought the Dell for the 3.5" drive bay.

No real need to decrease the size of the mini, because it is already small enough to fix side-by-side with another mini, in a 1U rack height set-up.

I'll be ready to upgrade my 2011 mini with a Haswell/HD4600/SSD version in about a year.

Hexley said:

Whether it be cheaper or more expensive is something that will forever be in flux.

Most people will look at the parts most common between the PC and Mac, call it a day and claim the PC is cheaper. Nevermind the unique hardware found on the Mac or OS and apps that come with a Mac.

Talking about it ever further really is a exercise of futility. People who enjoyed the fit, finish and polish of the Mac will be hard to be swayed away from the so-called "walled garden". People who want to swap out new parts every month or so will dislike Macs all together. People tight on cash will think it ludicrous to spend so much on something shiny.

There are temps who budget their income to be able to buy a Starbucks every day. There are folks driving BMWs that will buy a "dumb phone" because spending anything more on a phone is silly.

The design and marketing objective of Apple for the Mac mini was for PC switchers. Hence the exclusion of I/O hardware.

Click to expand...

Well, the PC may be cheaper. Cheaper and more expensive are absolute concepts. A US$ 700 laptop is cheaper than a US$ 1,000 laptop, no matter what. Value is a different concept, and a relative one. You may see more value in a US$ 1,000 laptop, but other people may disagree.

Just to emphasis my point. Macs have been outselling PCs for 6 years despite the perception (warranted or unwarranted) that it is more expensive than a PC.

In light of the recession and other economic disasters this is an odd occurrence. One would think people would all jump on a netbook powered by Linux and Apache Office at this point in time.

Click to expand...

Macs are not outselling PCs. PCs still sell MUCH more than Macs. Apple is not even among the 5 top-seller computer manufacturers in the world. Macs are outpacing PCs, as the gap is slowly diminishing, but PCs still sell a lot more.

Want a light and well constructed notebook? Look no further than a MBAir. I got one a few weeks earleir and it's a dream to use. Not going back to a MBPro!

Click to expand...

That's a matter of personal opinion, definitely...

Personal Computers as a whole is a commodity product. Being a commodity means you cannot charge a lot without losing sales because another brand does the very same thing for less.

That being said Macs are unique Personal Computers thus Apple can charge more. Same with the iPod, iPad and iPhone.

That being said I hope the Haswell Mac mini will sell for $300 or 400. I need a HTPC.

Click to expand...

Macs are unique to a certain extent. Apple does it best to distinguish its products from other similar products, but, as dumb as consumers may be, they are not complete idiots. People can find some similarity between a MacBook Air and some ultrabooks available on the market, for instance. It's no wonder why Apple reduced the price of the MacBook Air to make it more competitive with its Windows counterparts.

blanka said:

They missed their chance to slim it down.
If Apple wanted to do it, they had to do it last months update. They didn't, they were lazy (they even left the FW port accidentally in which is great off course). With the move to Haswell there is no room for shrinking as it only demands more room for heat. Ivy probably left a bit of space for extra GPU power in Haswell, but if that is not the case, Apple can only turn down the CPU speed to accomodate the newer GPU. And making the CPU too slow, would be very strange, and result in a EOL for the Mini I guess.

Click to expand...

Why would they slim something down if the next generation is more taxing? That makes little sense. You want fans to go even higher?

Hexley said:

Remember folks! If it wasn't for Macs PCs would all still be colored beige and still sport a floppy drive!

Imagine all the arguments they had in the 90s on it!

Click to expand...

Sony would have taken care of that.

Actually with commodities like PCs the value of items changes moment by moment.

Say the 2013 $600 Mac mini comes out in June. You make a comparison and find out it is cheap on June as Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc offer laptops more expensive than a mini. Return to the same argument later and do another search for PC laptops or SFF PCs and you may find that the landscape of nearly identical spec'd PCs have decreased by $20-100.

So any price comparison is moot and useless. Only useful to win forum arguments likes these.

So my suggestion is go with whatever you can buy or are comfortable in using. It's your money and life. If you want to Mac it up then Mac it up if you want to go PC then PC it up. It's like fighting over what is better Canon/Nikon. My question is which system has the lens I want & need.

So there isn't real absolute here. Apple never reprices their Macs to reflect reduced component costs or efficiencies unless it's a Black Friday sale or whatnot. When they discontinue a model it just vanishes from the Apple Store all together.

Yes, Apple has outsell 90% of the personal computer industry. That would be absurd. Apple would never cater to that market segment.



But as the chart above has shown it is part of the top 5 computer makers and the only one posting growth and not contraction.

It could be the Apple brand, customers shifting to mobile devices rather than desktops or whatever other reason. But the point I am making is they're growing because people do not mind buying into closed systems.

skaertus said:

Well, the PC may be cheaper. Cheaper and more expensive are absolute concepts. A US$ 700 laptop is cheaper than a US$ 1,000 laptop, no matter what. Value is a different concept, and a relative one. You may see more value in a US$ 1,000 laptop, but other people may disagree.



Macs are not outselling PCs. PCs still sell MUCH more than Macs. Apple is not even among the 5 top-seller computer manufacturers in the world. Macs are outpacing PCs, as the gap is slowly diminishing, but PCs still sell a lot more.

Click to expand...

thekev said:

Why would they slim something down if the next generation is more taxing? That makes little sense. You want fans to go even higher?

Click to expand...

Intel's aim is to make ever smaller mobile and desktop devices. This allows makers like Apple to make ever smaller products. If you want to get mad at anyone get mad at Samsung, Intel. LG and other component manufacturers. Without them Apple cannot make ever slimmer products.

Going back to topic I expect Apple to spearhead getting ever slimmer products to the market space so long as their partners will cooperate.

Where is that Hexley,

"aluminum as a predominant enclosure material"

Are we back to the "Aluminium -premier metal" story?

Do you know SOMETHING about ANYTHING?
Here is some info for you:

Stan Mikulenka said:

Where is that Hexley,

"aluminum as a predominant enclosure material"

Are we back to the "Aluminium -premier metal" story?

Do you know SOMETHING about ANYTHING?
Here is some info for you:

Click to expand...

So plastic's more expensive now?

Audis, Jaguars and aircraft use aluminum for its strength and light weight. If plastics found in almost all PC laptops were of this quality then your car and the aeroplane you fly on would be mostly made out of that material.

I'm not participating further on this thread unless the level of intelligent discourse displayed by skaertus (yes, take it as a complement skaertus) is fractionally restored.

No wonder western civilization is sliding. Not enough science in the classroom.

thekev said:

Why would they slim something down if the next generation is more taxing? That makes little sense. You want fans to go even higher?

Click to expand...

Blanca rarely makes any sense with the things he posts. Further when you call him out he just ignores you (or puts you on his ignore list). I'm starting to think he's a 16 year old boy who sits around all day on the Internet making stuff up without thinking anything thru or doing even the most basic of research.... Take a look back at his ports and you will see a lot of inconsistencies and completely ignorant posts as it pertains to the laws of physics!

Hexley said:

So plastic's more expensive now?

Audis, Jaguars and aircraft use aluminum for its strength and light weight. If plastics found in almost all PC laptops were of this quality then your car and the aeroplane you fly on would be mostly made out of that material.

I'm not participating further on this thread unless the level of intelligent discourse displayed by skaertus (yes, take it as a complement skaertus) is fractionally restored.

No wonder western civilization is sliding. Not enough science in the classroom.

Click to expand...

Lots of expensive things are made from "plastic". Actually has many positive attributes for design and construction.

Hexley said:

Image

But as the chart above has shown it is part of the top 5 computer makers and the only one posting growth and not contraction.

Click to expand...

That's for the U.S. only. Apple is not among the top 5 worldwide. The top 5 are Lenovo, HP, Dell, Acer and Asus. Look here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-5-manufacturers-personal-computers-210049102.html

Here in Brazil, only 1.6% of computers are Macs.

And another.

Hexley said:

Say the 2013 $600 Mac mini comes out in June. You make a comparison and find out it is cheap on June as Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc offer laptops more expensive than a mini. Return to the same argument later and do another search for PC laptops or SFF PCs and you may find that the landscape of nearly identical spec'd PCs have decreased by $20-100.

Click to expand...

I'd argue that Apple markets the mini as a desktop. Apple uses similar parts to those in the base mini in the 13" mbp, yet that is significantly more expensive.

Hexley said:

Intel's aim is to make ever smaller mobile and desktop devices. This allows makers like Apple to make ever smaller products. If you want to get mad at anyone get mad at Samsung, Intel. LG and other component manufacturers. Without them Apple cannot make ever slimmer products.

Going back to topic I expect Apple to spearhead getting ever slimmer products to the market space so long as their partners will cooperate.

Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure how that relates to my semi-rhetorical question. Intel has products across various ranges. They're bringing out 10W Ivy cpus early next year. They have 17W ULVs. If the goal was as thin as possible at the expense of everything else, Apple could have made the Mini into a headless macbook air. Obviously that isn't their sole priority. I'd suggest if anything it could use further airflow improvements to allow for silent operation. Like the imac I see it as being at a point where going thinner will not have a real impact on potential placement. Even the rackable mini solution is a 1U type. For electronics to become less cumbersome at this point, you'd have to look into embedded solutions and device consolidation. Even with the imac, the new one doesn't have a finer footprint, and a VESA mount display arm is no longer a possible solution. Any thinning out of existing stationary products is more about novelty factory than functionality. The notebooks and idevices are a different story.

paulrbeers said:

Blanca rarely makes any sense with the things he posts. Further when you call him out he just ignores you (or puts you on his ignore list). I'm starting to think he's a 16 year old boy who sits around all day on the Internet making stuff up without thinking anything thru or doing even the most basic of research.... Take a look back at his ports and you will see a lot of inconsistencies and completely ignorant posts as it pertains to the laws of physics!

Click to expand...

He has responded many times when I've stated counterpoints. Haswell estimated tdp did go up a couple watts from what we have now in the mini. Some of the estimates were 47W rather than 45, but Intel's has also mentioned aggressive power management. I'm not sure what to think of his posts. Some of them are complete misinformation, yet they don't take on the typical troll tone in that they don't encourage a response from most people. Some of them happen to relate to things where I'm quite opinionated, such as display technology, so I end up responding.

thekev said:

Any thinning out of existing stationary products is more about novelty factory than functionality. The notebooks and idevices are a different story.

Click to expand...

Exactly. No other way to view it.

Hexley said:

I am unsure whether you were being sarcastic or not but posted above is the sales figures of Mini/Pro/iMac/MacBook

Click to expand...

If you check 2012 the sales of the mini are bad, but since the last one (just one month), they are way up and taking a bite of the iMac numbers. So in 2013 Mini's will account for over 1 million, and maybe 2 or 3 I guess.

----------

paulrbeers said:

Blanca rarely makes any sense with the things he posts. Further when you call him out he just ignores you (or puts you on his ignore list). I'm starting to think he's a 16 year old boy who sits around all day on the Internet making stuff up without thinking anything thru or doing even the most basic of research.... Take a look back at his ports and you will see a lot of inconsistencies and completely ignorant posts as it pertains to the laws of physics!

Click to expand...

LOL
I only practice Think Different here. Every post again. We have to think out of the box man! Use LSD like Steve did! In the end all our toys will melt and be forgotten!
Oh, and I'm 44 with a PhD in Physics.
And fun that I'm recognized. I try to take a different approach on every reaction, and I don't remember any user here myself.
Where is the ignore button? Good hint!

The $799 mac mini is by far the best value for an ivy bridge based i7 quad computer (mac or PC --- call out anything you think rivals this little gem!). It is also perfect for my needs (audio production) and easily replaced a 2009 quad core MacPro. The 2013 mac pro will most likely be a large performance jump from the 2012 mini but it will come with a 3X price (at least).