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Old Dec 20, 2012, 05:38 AM   #126
steve119
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Originally Posted by till213 View Post
Wow! Just wow! The ignorance of certain fanbois is really REALLY huge and unbelievable!

Forgot already that is was ******** Apple who dictated the timing of the publishing of iOS 6 and threw out Google Maps prematurely (the license contract with Google would have lasted over more than a year still - REMEMBER?)?

Now Google reacted as fast as possible by developing a new app (well, porting the code over from their Android code base probably), and now all of a sudden it is "perfect timing on Google's side and everything a big conspiracy, but at least our Apple
So what you are saying is that us 'fanbois' should have been happy that we had to put up with a gimped and restricted map system from google?

Apple did us a HUGE favour by going it alone, and therefore pushed google into giving us 'fanboys' a better mapping system as a result.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 05:45 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Gemütlichkeit View Post
Absolutely, my biggest complaint with apple maps. It's horrible at knowing what I actually want when searching for something. I can search for UPS distribution center and it wuld give me UPS stores across town. I go to google and type the same information in and it takes me right where I need to go.
Got to agree 100% the search in Apple maps never finds what I am looking for without a lot of hints in the search text. Not surprising though considering Google is simply using its rock solid web search engine to figure out what you meant where as Apple is years away from being able to do anything like this.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:01 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Gemütlichkeit View Post
Wish apple and google would come to smoe agreement where we'd be allowed to use apples UI but googles logic

best of both
Google's UI is better, IMO. No way to zoom out with Apples.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:33 AM   #129
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Until Apple Maps has public transportation directions then there isn't even the start of an argument, and thats just the first hurdle.

Google maps > Apple maps, Fact.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 11:05 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by KdParker View Post
Can they?
Google can do anything
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:03 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by ChazUK View Post
I'd be interested in residing those articles or posts that explain about the same devices being counted as an activation multiple times if you can remember where you heard it (not doubting you at all, just genuinely curious if Google gave been manipulating the figures in the past). Its always interesting to read more in to potential shenanigans by these big corps to try to make themselves look like they're doing better than they actually are.
I believe I saw it on Asymco, but I don't remember the exact post.

I wouldn't call that a manipulation. Google may have done this as unique device IDs are not all that unique in many parts of the world with grey market phones. Cheap phone manufacturers do not want to pay any royalties to patent holders and do not necessarily meet every specification, so they cannot get legitimate IMEI numbers. I do not know if this is as big a problem in smart phones, but China and Africa is said to be full of such "illegal" voice phones. If so, Google cannot rely only on counting unique IDs, as there will be many phones with the same fake ID. These markets also have vibrant second hand phone markets, so it does not sound easy to avoid over or under counting. The army of smart engineers at Google may have eventually figured out a way to count them accurately, but that may be why the definition of activation numbers is a little vague. No big company wants to be associated with this grey market, even though it brings in considerable revenue for those who target that market, so most companies would rather not bring it up. (One way is to sell your components to local distributors, who end up selling them to these grey market phone makers, while you can feign surprise at all that volume going into the grey market, as you swear you never sold one part to one of these people directly. Some companies never sell parts to distributors for this reason.)

Google's activation numbers do not show handsets without Google services, but Android market share studies usually add them all up. Actually, I don't remember seeing "non-Google Android" as an entry in any market share study, even though China is said to be full of them as Google is not permitted to operate freely inside that country, slowing down its services.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:25 PM   #132
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Makes you wonder

Where Google's Maps are clearly better, its odd that Apple is going to have to spend all this time and money trying to make a Maps app that is at least as good.

They don't really want to have to do this.

Perhaps now that Google has provided their maps with turn by turn and this feature is now available on the iPhone as it has been on Android, Apple can sunset their own mapping efforts.

They just need to make iOS control how much information is being given up to Google with System preferences.

Apple needs to focus on innovating other things and leave the Maps market to the clear leader. Otherwise they will be like Bing to Google Search. What's the point?!
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:31 PM   #133
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You guys realize that there is a concept called "early gifting"?

Maybe in Texas, where most people think the world is gonna end tomorrow.


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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:21 PM   #134
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I upgraded to iOS 6 specifically for Apple Maps. I've been very happy with it, and see no reason to get Google Maps.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:43 PM   #135
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Maybe in Texas, where most people think the world is gonna end tomorrow.


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Old Dec 20, 2012, 01:50 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by SmileyBlast! View Post
Apple needs to focus on innovating other things and leave the Maps market to the clear leader. Otherwise they will be like Bing to Google Search. What's the point?!
The point is not being held hostage to a competitor for a critical service. Once Google entered the mobile OS space (and started giving their product away for free, no less), Apple had to start redirecting itself away from Google services. I'm sure Apple's version of Bing is coming. As it should.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 02:26 PM   #137
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This is actually a good thing for Apple maps ... my wife refused to update to ios6 because of how bad Apple maps were. Now she updated and liking the maps app not realizing she was actually using the Apple maps. She thought that the "Maps" app had gone back to google. I wonder how many more have thought this.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 02:51 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatonka View Post
It is not that Apple doesn't want those things, it is that it wants it to themselves. Apple is in the advertising business just as Google is (albeit, not quite as successful so far). Apple will track you just as much as Google will .. it is a sad truth of the internet these days.
They’re both in the ad business, and both will track you in some sense—but they’re not the same: nearly ALL of Google’s income comes from advertising and the selling of personal information (anonymized, ideally, but it can’t be kept anonymous in practice). While nearly ALL of Apple’s income comes from creating a good experience that makes loyal customers of their hardware products. Apple has dabbled in ads for third-party developers—because they’re a revenue stream that developers demand, and a way to make a free NON-Apple app viable. So, iAds exist, and devs and Apple alike make money. But it’s NOT core to Apple’s business and income. With Google, it is. In fact, Google tracking code is hidden on web pages constantly (Google Analytics and the like). Apple has no such long reach.

So no, Apple won’t track you “just as much” as Google does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robjulo View Post
Google's UI is better, IMO. No way to zoom out with Apples.
Two ways:

a) Pinch

b) Tap anywhere with 2 fingers


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileyBlast! View Post
...
They don't really want to have to do this.

Perhaps now that Google has provided their maps with turn by turn and this feature is now available on the iPhone as it has been on Android, Apple can sunset their own mapping efforts.

They just need to make iOS control how much information is being given up to Google with System preferences.
...
But that’s Google’s call to make, not Apple’s: Apple demanded certain map features. Google demanded things in return: collecting information by tying your use of the app to Google accounts.

People act like Google would give anything and demand nothing in return, but BOTH companies have business interests to defend. Legitimately so. Apple wasn’t playing hardball alone here. Google was too.

This is NOT an action by Apple. It’s an action by both companies, who falied to reach an agreement. I’m very glad that Apple didn’t give in: I want competition in maps more than I want Google tracking my every action and service.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:03 PM   #139
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Wow, this report is a good example of the wrong use of statistics. As many have pointed out, there is a lot of comparison data missing and all factors related to timing are not taken in to consideration.

So now Google's new maps app is a success because more people are using IOS6?

But IOS6 maps is a failure because some people complain about it? (only 10% according to recent reports)
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:26 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by robjulo View Post
Google's UI is better, IMO. No way to zoom out with Apples.
You mean other than pinching with two fingers or tapping with two fingers? Y'know, the exact same way to zoom out in Google Maps.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:54 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by till213 View Post
Wow! Just wow! The ignorance of certain fanbois is really REALLY huge and unbelievable!

Forgot already that is was ******** Apple who dictated the timing of the publishing of iOS 6 and threw out Google Maps prematurely (the license contract with Google would have lasted over more than a year still - REMEMBER?)?

Now Google reacted as fast as possible by developing a new app (well, porting the code over from their Android code base probably), and now all of a sudden it is "perfect timing on Google's side and everything a big conspiracy, but at least our Apple shines"?

Or ******** what is your point anyway!

Remember it is now 6months since that 'more than a year' discussion.
Also if you are going to put things in "quotes" then you should be quoting not paraphrasing what you assumed I meant.

As others have pointed out the assumed dated for contract end is 29 June - six years after iPhone launch. If that is the date then Apple will Have 100's Millions of iOS6 devices operating and still 10's Millions iOS5 devices. The contract would need to be out to Jan2014 for iOS6 to get down to only being on 10's Millions of device at contract end.

Google's chief value add is data mining it is not a conspiracy to suggest they use that information for advantage. It is just Marketing.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 03:44 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
They’re both in the ad business, and both will track you in some sense—but they’re not the same: nearly ALL of Google’s income comes from advertising and the selling of personal information (anonymized, ideally, but it can’t be kept anonymous in practice). While nearly ALL of Apple’s income comes from creating a good experience that makes loyal customers of their hardware products. Apple has dabbled in ads for third-party developers—because they’re a revenue stream that developers demand, and a way to make a free NON-Apple app viable. So, iAds exist, and devs and Apple alike make money. But it’s NOT core to Apple’s business and income. With Google, it is. In fact, Google tracking code is hidden on web pages constantly (Google Analytics and the like). Apple has no such long reach.

So no, Apple won’t track you “just as much” as Google does.
Of course you are right that Apple and Google have very different core businesses and of course Googles arm reaches a lot further. But, when comparing iOS apps .. I don't think there is a big difference at all. Both will create profiles and both will sell them to advertisers .. just Google has a lot more data coming from different places, like the web as you pointed out, to enrich the data they collect in their iOS apps.

T.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:11 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by steve119 View Post
Apple did us a HUGE favour by going it alone, and therefore pushed google into giving us 'fanboys' a better mapping system as a result.
I agree that Apple needed to do something about their maps situation, but iOS 6 maps were a step backwards. Maybe they should have either stuck it out another year so they could perfect their own mapping system before releasing it, or given Google whatever it is they wanted for an updated maps app.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 05:21 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by TuffLuffJimmy View Post
You mean other than pinching with two fingers or tapping with two fingers? Y'know, the exact same way to zoom out in Google Maps.
Uh, no, it doesn't. But thanks for trying.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:36 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by robjulo View Post
Uh, no, it doesn't. But thanks for trying.
What are you talking about? I have both apps in front of me and they both zoom in and out the exact same way. How about you try using both before making insane assertions.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 10:39 AM   #146
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What are you talking about? I have both apps in front of me and they both zoom in and out the exact same way. How about you try using both before making insane assertions.
You cannot zoom out while navigating with Apple Maps. I'm looking at it right now. Pinching gives you a very, very, slightly larger area, it is not zooming out to anything useful like Google does. Google allows you to zoom out as far as you want and to scroll so you can determine where the app is taking you and gives a much better idea where you are going.

Anything else?

Last edited by robjulo; Dec 24, 2012 at 10:46 AM.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:40 PM   #147
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A Key factor that most of us living here in the US or the countries supported by Apple Maps seem to miss is that Apple Maps does not work in Middle East, India etc. I was there on vacation and I get the message, "driving directions cannot be found" with apple maps. where as Google Maps POI's and directions including traffic was very accurate. It essentially enhances the travel experience with their extensive poi's.

Apple Maps is good in the US. It works well and I use it all the time but for international travel and POI delivery, google maps is hands down.

Now the main AIM for a navigation is to direct based on POI's not addresses in your contacts. Agreed Google Maps has ways to improve but its fundamental core is rock solid.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:58 PM   #148
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Average Joe

I think sometime we all overestimate how many people really use all the apps on their phones. Most users are not tech savy like everyone on this forum and I think google has lost the map races due to the simple fact that google maps are not preinstalled on a new phone.

My mom and dad are not scrambling to download Google Maps, they barely are able to use the current Apple map to it's fullest capability. So powers users are singing the praises of the Google maps app but the average not so techie user doesn't give a rats arse I'm sure.

In 10 years or so this will all change but IOS only came out in 2007.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by robjulo View Post
You cannot zoom out while navigating with Apple Maps. I'm looking at it right now. Pinching gives you a very, very, slightly larger area, it is not zooming out to anything useful like Google does. Google allows you to zoom out as far as you want and to scroll so you can determine where the app is taking you and gives a much better idea where you are going.

Anything else?

Really? I think I noticed this when a route was "rerouting" and I tried to get an overview of where it was taking me - very annoying.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 12:07 AM   #149
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My dad who is totally not tech savy specifically mentioned that the maps in ios6 does not work in india. Had to install google maps and move the maps application out of the front page. Speaks for itself.

If apple maps gets it pois updated well then it has a surviving chance else it's reign is to the US and those supported countries itself
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