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Old Dec 16, 2012, 05:08 AM   #176
thekev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwiky View Post
Incorrect. I had 13" MBP --> Apple T-bolt display --> Pegasus Raid T-Bolt --> Apple Cinema Display.

In the past before I used the cinema display I used a miniDisplayport-> DVI to connect to a 22" Dell ultrasharp.

You just can't go from t-bolt display directly to miniDisplayport.
I'm not sure what you mean. You can plug a mini displayport cable directly into the machine. You just can't insert a mini displayport device with the intention of running other devices off that one. I have a mini displayport to displayport cable around here somewhere, so they do exist and work if plugged into a thunderbolt port.

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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
List the Apples with ExpressCard that could potentially use such a dock.

Very short list.
That isn't the only problem. Many express cards aren't sold on high margins. They're typically Windows only or Windows + OSX compliant. The number of supported products under OSX has decreased significantly. Snow Leopard to Mountain Lion alone killed support for a lot of them.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:16 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by frjonah View Post
Or they could have left mDP and transitioned one or both of the USBs to 3.0.
But technically these two are unrelated. The decision to implement TB did not prevent them from offering USB 3. So, they did not need to keep mDP to implement USB 3.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 09:27 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by macimby View Post
Re: No Firewire: I can't imagine any value to firewire ports like the Belkin has. It was obsolete from the start (slow vs. eSATA or USB3.0 and unique to Apple which had tiny market share then)
Yeah, FW800 was obsolete from the start against USB 3. FW800 appeared on Macs in January 2003 and the first USB 3 computers were introduced in mid-2009.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 11:43 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by manu chao View Post
Yeah, FW800 was obsolete from the start against USB 3. FW800 appeared on Macs in January 2003 and the first USB 3 computers were introduced in mid-2009.
Yes, it was already obsolete in 2003 because other computer makers didn't adopt it and Apple had an insignificant market share at the time. eSATA was already on the drawing board by the time production ramped up and was ratified in 2003-2004, able to go up to 3Gbps without needing signal and data translation from what the hard discs used, although to my surprise the convenience and ubiquity of USB 2.0 won out for most people until USB3.0 finally added good speed

In any case, Firewire certainly seems obsolete now, which was the point.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 09:28 AM   #180
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 10:07 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
If I am not mistaken, Thunderbolt is still exclusive to Macs? THAT is the reason it is a total failure. There are so few people using them, relatively speaking, that there is not a potential to reach hundreds of millions of users you could target if this went to PC. It's good technology, but it is essentially proprietary.
Yeah, you're mistaken. Thunderbolt is available on PC, but not on any of the mass market PCs, as far as I know, (Dell, HP, etc), so your point is still somewhat valid. If you're an enthusiast, you can roll your own with one of these:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Int...8Z77V_PREMIUM/
http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/30...underbolt.html
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:46 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Looking at my desk at home, right now I plug in 4 cables when setting down my MacBook Pro. 1 USB cable, 1 mini-din speaker connector, 1 Thunderbolt cable (actually a MDP to DVI adapter), 1 Magsafe 2 connector.

With the DS1, I would have to connect 2 of the 4, the USB and sound cable being plugged into the DS1.
Wrong. There are two DS1 models. One has HDMI. The second one not pictured at the top of the thread has DVI.

".... Choose Matrox DS1/DVI for use with DVI displays or Matrox DS1/HDMI for use with HDMI displays with embedded audio. ... "
http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/

With the DVI DS1 your case is left with just power being separate which is reasonable. All of the data connectors are on the DS1.


Quote:
250$ for the privilege. No thanks.
It is still a judgement/value call but it is not on lack of cable reduction. However, most folks would have to insert any 2nd (or 3rd) TB device inbewteen the Marox station and the Mac.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:55 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by macimby View Post
Yes, it was already obsolete in 2003 because other computer makers didn't adopt it and Apple had an insignificant market share at the time. eSATA was already on the drawing board by the time production ramped up and was ratified in 2003-2004, able to go up to 3Gbps without needing signal and data translation from what the hard discs used, although to my surprise the convenience and ubiquity of USB 2.0 won out for most people until USB3.0 finally added good speed

In any case, Firewire certainly seems obsolete now, which was the point.
I got every peripheral I wanted as a FW800 version, so I certainly did not care whether other computer makers adopted it and I enjoyed speeds of about 3x USB 2 with FW800 for many years as did most Mac users that cared about speed. With much less hassle, no need for extra power supplies, and daisy-chaining compared to eSATA.

And for simple things like CF card readers, I am not even sure there are/were eSATA versions and the idea of need a separate power supply for a card reader does not look very appealing.

I think you are confusing niche application with obsolete. FW800 might have been a niche application in the overall peripherals market but on the Mac it was a pretty large niche.

And since you are essentially comparing FW800 with eSATA, what percentage of PC laptops had or have eSATA and what percentage of Mac laptops had or have FW? Because from this point of view, eSATA might have been a more niche application under Windows than FW800 was on the Mac. Or in your worldview, eSATA was obsolete because it did not make it to most PC laptops.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:13 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by manu chao View Post
And since you are essentially comparing FW800 with eSATA, what percentage of PC laptops had or have eSATA and what percentage of Mac laptops had or have FW? Because from this point of view, eSATA might have been a more niche application under Windows than FW800 was on the Mac. Or in your worldview, eSATA was obsolete because it did not make it to most PC laptops.
eSATA was gaining momentum and appearing in Windows computers (usually as a combo USB2 + eSATA port), but you're right that it really didn't catch on before USB3 came on the scene and made eSATA somewhat unnecessary. Yes, at this point I'd put eSATA and FW800 in the same category -- both obsolete now that faster, simpler, more commonly available options are becoming available.

Re: another poster's comment about T-bolt not being on Windows PC's, that is not entirely correct. It is starting to appear on some models. If I recall correctly, today's Intel support chips that include USB3.0 support also offer T-bolt support, so there's not a high hurdle for PC makers to include it even if Windows only few users will use it due to exceeding their needs in speed and price. On Windows PC, at this point T-bolt seems a bit of a specialty product for people with special expensive needs.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:27 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Wrong. There are two DS1 models. One has HDMI. The second one not pictured at the top of the thread has DVI.

".... Choose Matrox DS1/DVI for use with DVI displays or Matrox DS1/HDMI for use with HDMI displays with embedded audio. ... "
http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/

With the DVI DS1 your case is left with just power being separate which is reasonable. All of the data connectors are on the DS1.
Wrong, you'd still need to hook up both the Magsafe and the Thunderbolt connector.



Seriously, how did you not understand that ? The number of DS1 models doesn't matter. TB + MagSafe, while now I have TB + MagSafe + USB + Audio.

4 now, 250$ drops me to 2. Not. Worth. It. You didn't even say anything remotely different than I did, except that you failed to account for hooking the DS1 to the MacBook.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 03:00 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by jrlcopy View Post
Where's Belkin's, that was supposed to have firewire connections also.
http://www.belkin.com/us/thunderbolt

Shame none of them have esata also, that would have been a slam dunk then.
Wasn't the Belkin unit targeting an even higher price tag?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 04:51 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by macimby View Post
eSATA was gaining momentum and appearing in Windows computers (usually as a combo USB2 + eSATA port), but you're right that it really didn't catch on before USB3 came on the scene and made eSATA somewhat unnecessary. Yes, at this point I'd put eSATA and FW800 in the same category -- both obsolete now that faster, simpler, more commonly available options are becoming available.
And that is something I completely agree with, they are both obsolete now but backwards compatibility (for both) is nevertheless very useful in order for us not having to throw away all our existing devices (though often using them via USB 2 would be an alternative to throwing them away).
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 05:11 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by macimby View Post
If I recall correctly, today's Intel support chips that include USB3.0 support also offer T-bolt support...
No.

USB 3.0 is built into the support chipset. T-Bolt is a separate controller chip that needs PCIe lanes running to it.

There were many early reports/rumours that T-Bolt was embedded, but when the chipsets arrived only USB 3.0 was embedded.
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:17 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frjonah
Or they could have left mDP and transitioned one or both of the USBs to 3.0.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manu chao View Post
But technically these two are unrelated. The decision to implement TB did not prevent them from offering USB 3. So, they did not need to keep mDP to implement USB 3.
...except that my comment was in response to your previous comment below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by manu chao
Since these early TB ports where doubling as mDP ports, using USB 3 ports instead of them would have left the computers with no native external display port, not really a smart idea.
i.e. They should have migrated to USB 3.0 on the early MBPs and LEFT the mDP... there was no need for TB until the peripherals came into existence, which is only just now happening. As I also mentioned above, the one-year exclusivity deal with Intel on TB was a huge mistake in that it disincentivized peripheral manufacturers from coming on board. Now that TB is becoming more "mainstream", more peripherals are popping up. Port exclusivity is almost always a bad idea IMO.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 12:09 AM   #190
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Still waiting for the mythical Sunix TB dock with everything everyone on this post has been asking for:
http://www.sunix.com.tw/cc/en/e-DM/2...t_dock%20.html

Supposed to be released Q4 2012 but no hint of the price or availability

Why would I buy a DS1 with only USB2 ports? With the new Mac I will have to change my current external hard drives from Firewire to USB so I am looking for a USB3 dock.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:17 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by theSeb View Post
And BR is doing quite well. It's ok if many of you don't find thunder bolt useful. Many of us do.
I never said I didn't find it useful. I use my promise drive with them everyday, but unfortunately that's all I can get for TB up here in Britain.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 03:04 PM   #192
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I never said I didn't find it useful. I use my promise drive with them everyday, but unfortunately that's all I can get for TB up here in Britain.
I live in England too there are far more tb devices than that
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 06:30 AM   #193
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I live in England too there are far more tb devices than that
What do you mean you live in England '"too", Britain is not England, and neither is Scotland, which it quite clearly says where I live under my user name.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 11:27 AM   #194
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What do you mean you live in England '"too", Britain is not England, and neither is Scotland, which it quite clearly says where I live under my user name.
Ok
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 10:39 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by mpainesyd View Post
Still waiting for the mythical Sunix TB dock with everything everyone on this post has been asking for:
http://www.sunix.com.tw/cc/en/e-DM/2...t_dock%20.html

Supposed to be released Q4 2012 but no hint of the price or availability

Why would I buy a DS1 with only USB2 ports? With the new Mac I will have to change my current external hard drives from Firewire to USB so I am looking for a USB3 dock.
I have now bought a Kensington 3-Port USB Pocket Hub and iPhone Sync station for AU$29 (soon to be US$100 post-cliff). It gives me three USB2 ports and an iPhone dock. It uses one USB3 port on the back of the new iMac plus a separate power supply. A nice temporary solution while I wait for the Sunix dock or something similar.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:26 AM   #196
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Keep in mind that with just 1 USB 3.0 port, you'll want a USB 3.0 hub anyway, and that would probably be true even if you had 2 or maybe 3 such ports.

I just bought a 7-port USB 3.0 hub, but had to separately buy a UL-listed power supply to ensure enough power for all the ports (0.9A per port is drawn, so I went with a 5A brick to replace the cheap 3A it came with, i.e., given a 0.9A input plus the 5A, that should cover the draw from 4 0.9A devices + 3 0.5A low-power devices. (If 4 USB3.0 ports is all you need, Targus makes a slim USB 3.0 hub that I think comes with a 4A power adapter.)
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 03:42 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camali View Post
Don't forget Belkin has removed the eSATA connection, plus the USB 3.0 ports are limited to 2.5gbps and not the full 5gbps USB 3.0 delivers - WITH NO price change. For that I can just replace my 17" Macbook Pro with a Mac mini! for slight a little more.
Where did you see that the Belkin dock's USB 3.0 ports are limited to 2.5gbps and not the full 5gbps? Because if this is true I will probably look to Matrox to make my 2011 iMac USB 3.0 compatible. Thanks
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