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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:29 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
You need to realize that Apple does everything it can to make things simple for its users.

If a user needs more RAM or a bigger hard drive, they simply buy a new laptop. The friendly Genius will be happy to migrate all the data for you.

The need to go under the hood and get your hands dirty is un-Apple-like. It is simpler to simply buy a newer and ever-simpler machine.
Tim, is that you?

But seriously, I have no current need for a retina display and do not want to pay extra for one. Let's hope that Apple can keep the same base prices of each model.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:33 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by themachugger View Post
The single biggest feature I want to see added to (at least) the MacBook Air is a touchscreen.
Personally I doubt many people want this and I think it is unlikely we will see this anytime soon unless OSX changes pretty dramatically.


Digitimes is wrong far more often than they are right. I suppose this is possible but retina displays still cost a lot and battery life on an Air has probably not improved enough to provide decent battery life on an Air.

Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post

DigiTimes reports that Apple has signaled Taiwan-based suppliers that both the MacBook Pro and MacBook Air series will see revisions in June 2013. As noted by our buyers guide, this would put the updates in line within the expected timeframes.

DigiTimes' sources also reveal that the new MacBook Airs won't have any major external design changes, but will feature a "new processor platform":The paper also reports that Ultrabook manufacturers are concerned that Apple "is likely to reduce the prices for its existing MacBook Airs before the launch of the new models." Such a move, however, would be extremely unusual for Apple. Apple rarely changes the prices of existing models before they are revised. So, we're skeptical about that particular concern. With the iPad 2, Apple has retained an older product and lowered its price to make room for a new product, but that move would also be unusual for Apple's notebook line.

Apple's MacBook lineup plans for late 2012 and 2013 (Source: Ming-Chi Kuo/KGI Securities)
Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo had previously outlined his expectations for Apple's 2013 plans back in June. The predictions in the top-portion of the graph above have already come true. Kuo expects that the MacBook Pro will consolidate back into a single hardware line next year. The new MacBook line will also use Intel's new Haswell chips which are expected between March and June 2013.

Haswell will incorporate CPU performance boosts as well as double the performance of the integrated GPU. This added GPU performance would be helpful if Apple does standardize on Retina Displays across the entire MacBook line in 2013.

Article Link: Apple to Update MacBook Pro and MacBook Air in June 2013 with New Processors, All Retina?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:36 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by themachugger View Post

I use my iPad both ways

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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:36 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
We all know this day is coming. WWDC will mark the year of the optical drive-less computer. Guessing this is when Apple will debut the new pro Mac offering. Also wouldn't be shocked if we saw an Office 2014 preview and it was announced it would be available via download only.

It's odd you would say this living in the land of BMW, Audi, Porsche, and Merc.

I've driven Bimmers all my adult life, save the first 6 years out of college. As a matter of routine I trade in every 4 years, and I can tell you first hand BMW's annual price hikes (combination of actual $ increase over previous model + standard features stripped out and made options) are not insignificant. Even still the 3 series sales volume, at least in the U.S., continues to grow year over year. And in Munich, geez, the streets are like a freaking car show there are so many gorgeous Bimmers, Porches, and Audis parked everywhere.

Point being, people adjust to price hikes if they really want something. Mac's have been appreciably more expensive than Win PCs for forever, and now even more so. Yes, Macs are the only PCs with any growth right now.
Really? I was on the road today, and most of the BMWs I saw were early 2000s models. Most cars in Germany are definetly not expensive cars. Ever heard of Dacia?

Apple prices are too high for European customers. The iPhone here has a low marketshare, and that is mainly because of outrageous off contract pricing. Why would anyone get the iPhone 5 for 679 EUROS over the S3 at 399 Euros?

Came could be translated to the mac, raising mac prices in Europe would kill off Apple marketshare in this continent.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:41 PM   #205
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Damn. Was hoping it would be a spring launch. Makes sense about Apple reducing the price of the Air though, because they've let it get behind the ultrabook competition by an unusual amount.

Hmm can I last until June without a new Air...
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:47 PM   #206
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why call this an update?

It's not an update, it's a new freakin model. An update is something you get to an existing device! Apple changing their lineup slightly and screwing another generation of users that bought a MBP four years ago.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:48 PM   #207
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Good track record. Can someone please talk him into predicting the return of the Mac Pro and the 17 inch Macbook pro?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:51 PM   #208
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In order to increase the size of the SSD in the 13" rMBP you are pricing yourself right into a baseline 15" rMBP which gives you discrete graphics card. But in this day and age, 128 GB of SSD for a "pro" computer? That's really low-balled.

The 11" Air is also the same way. Yes you can configure it to be higher but I'm saying Apple makes the entry level ultraportable computer in every line unattractive. The cMBP is one computer where you can easily take the baseline and upgrade it.

I just hope that if Apple does away with that line it stops low balling the baseline portables.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:52 PM   #209
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I find it hard to believe apple will make the rMBA in 2013. If they do, it will be at a high premium, and what will be the difference between it and the 13 rMBP?

I think 2013 is when all the Pros will be retina. The classic Macbook Pro will be dropped. This leaves the perfect opportunity to leave the Macbook Air as the only consumer line.

With retina $1199 --> $1499 (my guess), the Air will be very hard to sell as a consumer laptop.

Then in 2014 is when the Air will get a slight redesign, along with the Retina treatment.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:53 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Lazlow View Post
As long as they keep the price low. They added retina displays to the iPhone 4 without raising the price, and they should do that with the MBPs. Unless they're going to start marketing the Air as the entry level computer and return the Pro to its, well, Pro status.
Displays pick up a lot of engineering problems as you scale up in size, although I think notebooks have benefited from some of the problem solving driven by the market for smartphones. If you look at desktop displays, those have been incredibly stagnant relative to their smaller counterparts. Panel generations last several years with the rest of the advancement coming from research on ways to better implement them. These include improved measurement and panel blocking for backlight uniformity, lessened perceivable dithering, faster stabilization after the display is powered on, better internal compensation for drift, internal display lookup tables, and way more that I don't feel like listing or describing. The 27" panels used in the imacs and other 27" displays have been officially available since 2009 or 2010.

Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
More apps sold in the mac app store = more $$$$ for apple. Sad but true.
So far it hasn't provided a significant percentage of their revenue. It's possible that they see this as a strategic point of growth internally, but they don't currently highlight how much they make off it.

Originally Posted by RetepNamenots View Post
Yep. I see them adding high-res displays to the Pro line, then slimming them down over the years to replace the Air models entirely.
They already have a "high-res" option, although it should have been the standard option at this point. They're already quite slim. While I agree they might try something like this, how would they address a staggered range of price points as they do now? Their options around the $1000 mark must carry an incredible amount of the volume. Look at their growth in idevices where the upfront cost isn't always so high.

Originally Posted by tdream View Post
If they consolidate the Macbook Pro lines which pricing structure will they maintain? The Retina or Classic?

A $1199 Retina Macbook Pro base model would revitalise Apple's market share and do their image the world of good.
It would provide further growth assuming enough users identify it as a desirable feature. You can find 1080 display on 13" notebooks, so in absolute resolution, they're ahead but not to a crazy degree. Typically on Windows 1920x1080 is as high as it goes in 16:9, so you find that on 15" models as well where the gap becomes a bit wider. I just wouldn't assume that the retina marketing will work forever. It is just marketing where they chose a specific way of explaining it that adhered to their marketing. There are many things that affect the sense of realism of content displayed on a page beyond if you specifically perceive pixels.

Originally Posted by VTECaddict View Post

If the roadmap is accurate, I hope Apple leaves the soldered ram and proprietary SSD to the MBA line where portability is paramount, and gives the MBP line (retina or not) user upgradeable parts.

But going by what they did to the new iMac, I wouldn't hold my breath...
Well the soldered ram has already infiltrated the rMBPs. The 21.5" imac no longer has user serviceable ram, although it remains on the 27". I only see it as a huge problem if the configuration is limited to the amount absolutely required for their hypothetical average user in most situations. It wouldn't fit my usage patterns. It's possible for it to work even at current rMBP prices where it's $200 to go from 8 to 16GB. What matters is that the total cost of the machine as you require it aligns well enough with your budget against whatever time frame you would need to retain it at that price point. I tend to interpret it that way, as there are many base components you pay for either way.

If a working machine was sold without ram or a hard drive, many people on here would opt for such a solution as they intend to do their own upgrades. Barebones systems do exist as a niche market. It's just Apple sells working systems. When they arrive, they are bootable out of the box. Ram and a working drive are both necessary to test such a machine prior to shipping, and you do pay for those base components within the price. CTO upgrades tend to have a higher markup, but part of what people find so distasteful is the way their markup is packaged to the end user.

Originally Posted by baliset View Post
I'd like to ask everyone what they think the chances are of new MBPs having fusion drives (hybridized solid-state drives and HDDs) as one way of addressing the high price of large capacity storage on their flagship laptop.
Plus: lowers $/Gb for storage, contains most of the performance increases of SSDs
Minus: reintroduces a part apple have EOL'd, could be seen (illogically) as a step back.

Personally, the inability to replace the battery after a couple of years into what will be a ~4 year life cycle is a deal breaker.
So far you can still get battery service. It's expensive and others have suggested that they replace a number of parts to perform it. If that is true, I wonder how long it will exist. Replacing part of the case with an attached battery is not something they'd want to do on every machine. The fusion drives appear to be larger than what could be accommodated in the current rMBPs, although I haven't looked at the latest HDD technology or anything sub 2.5" form factor.

Originally Posted by RobertMartens View Post
Let's see $2200 for a computer. Sell it in two years for $1000

Cost of ownership $50 a month or about $2 per work day. Ouch!

Do you earn anything from the use of your computer?
Your math is tainted if you expect that to work with a reasonable level of confidence. You didn't budget for Applecare, so if something fails in the second year of ownership, the proposed salvage/residual value will be affected. It also ignores the sometimes non linear nature of update cycles, assumes the person is both buying and selling at an ideal time, and assumes a lack of any major changes over that period. Major changes can make a new macbook air look a lot more appealing than that used macbook pro. Depending on the other expenses of that person, a 2 year repurchasing cycle may or may not be feasible. Personally I think if you're stretching really far with disposable products, you should reconsider how much you're willing to budget each cycle.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:59 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by katewes View Post
If the whole MacBook lineup is going Retina, then I and all the people who've signed petitions for anti-glare screens are going to anxiously wait to see if the all-Retinas are going to include an anti-glare option.

I've tried out the Retinas and the latest 2012 iMacs - and the advertised 75% less reflective screen has to do with the intensity of the reflection, i.e. the reflection is darker. But the reflection is still there, and you can see the detail of what is behind you. It's darker, but still as clear as ever. Hence, if someone held a book open behind you, the reflection of the Retinas and new iMacs would be darker than the earlier glossy screens, but you would still be able to read the writing of the book's reflection.

Hence, the reflections are still annoying under CERTAIN lighting conditions.

It's still a total disaster if your new 2012 iMac or Retina MacBook Pro has its screen directly facing a sun-lit window where the exterior is in total sunshine.

Tim Cook has no idea how bad, in some but not all, lighting conditions, these still-glossy screens can make life so difficult for some users, because Tim Cook uses his iPad 80% of the time.
Agreed. I've opted for the anti-glare for my two MBPs (I don't think I had a choice on my early '06 one) and after using my wife's 13" work computer, I definitely prefer anti-glare.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:12 PM   #212
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Macbook Air needs to be the hybrid tablet/laptop for Apple.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:14 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Hellhammer View Post
That would have to be ARM then. It's not impossible given the performance of Apple's A6 and ARM's Cortex A15 (quad core at high clocks might be able to match the current chips in MBAs, assuming performance scales linearly). My take is that the new platform is simply Haswell, though.
Hellhammer, Anandtech and Tom's Hardware did an informative face off between Atom and ARM. (I will admit it was mostly against the 40nm Tegra 3.)

Can people really keep up the illusion that ARM is so much more power conservative, especially around here, for much longer? It took Intel a very long time using the same Atom cores since launch to hit the price and power targets. I had a feeling that 32nm would be Atom's magic bullet for everything but improving actual performance. Next year we will actually see a new Atom architecture for the first time since launch.

CES 2013 is going to be another amazing show, not that it ever is not, with AMD, nVidia, and Intel all showcasing new ultra low power offerings based on ARM and x86. Intel's own 7-13W Y Series based on the full blown Ivy Bridge and soon to be Haswell is going to make a killing even against their own Atom lineup.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:14 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by robeddie View Post
Agreed. We are force-fed a resolution (and the resulting price) some of us don't need, on top of that, we are now facing ANOTHER processor switch, which will likely make a lot of our prior software obsolete.

I'm just tired....
There's a DigiTimes RUMOR that the 2013 MacBook Pros and Airs all will have Retina displays, as well as a new processor platform. Someone on this thread idly wonders whether "new processor platform" might mean a non-Intel processor, although all other rumors have said that next year's Macs will use Haswell. From that, you (and others) have jumped to the conclusion that all-Retina, non-Intel MacBook Airs and Pros are going to happen, that there will be a price increase, and that much of your prior software might become obsolete.

An all-Retina lineup does seem plausible, although I expected it might take another year, for technical reasons that have been discussed in other threads. But it might happen. When Apple released the Retina iPhone 4, it didn't cost any more than the non-Retina iPhone 3GS did the previous year. When they released the Retina iPad 3, it didn't cost any more than the non-Retina iPad 2 did the previous year. When they released the Retina MacBook Pros this year, they charged a premium for the Retina screen, but non-Retina versions are still available at lower prices. By next summer, with economies of scale, the cost of 11" and 13" Retina panels might be low enough that Apple doesn't need to charge a premium. After all, an 11" panel would have close to the same area as the iPad's panel, when you factor in their different aspect ratios. If Haswell's integrated GPU can adequately drive an 11" and 13" display for the tasks for which the MBA is intended, and if battery life will be as good as or better than that of the current MBAs, then I suspect we'll see Retina displays across the board. I wouldn't put it past Apple to charge a $100 premium for a Retina MBA, but the reasons I don't think they will are 1) it would get rid of that psychologically important sub-$1,000 (i.e., $999) entry-level price point and 2) they make plenty of margin on their RAM and SSD upgrades.

As for switching to a non-Intel processor platform, there's been no credible evidence so far that Apple has an ARM processor in the works that would be powerful enough to handle the heavy-duty apps that currently run under OS X. Other people who know more about the architecture than I do have written about what would be involved in recoding applications once ARM becomes powerful enough, assuming Apple eventually decides to go that route.

Of course, I could be wrong – but, geez, people, how about waiting for these rumors to become reality before dumping on Apple? There's enough to complain about already, such as what they charge for SSD upgrades.

I'm itching to replace my early 2008 MBP, which is painfully slow for Aperture, but I'm going to try to hold out for the Haswell lineup and see how the new machines perform.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:17 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by AppleMacFinder View Post
I am so glad that I have bought a Classic MBP as well. After your warranty expires,
in case of almost any problem, you could be an "Apple Genius" and do "Apple Care" service for yourself:
you will be able to repair the Classic MBP without paying a fortune for it!

You know, there are a lot of people who are very happy with their new Retina MBP, literally jumping from happiness!
With their wallet, they have determined the Retina MBP success, and Classic MBP extinction.

But you will see that later, in 3-5 years term, a significant part of these people will flood various Mac forums,
telling sad spooky stories about how their Retina MBP with shiny nice Retina screen just broken down recently,
and Apple Genius with a smile on the face told something like:

"Your RAM is corrupted, I am so sorry, really sorry RAM is soldered, thus we need to replace the whole logic board.
But you are a valuable customer to Apple, so do not worry: with our special discount, it will cost just $1200 for you!
Let's put that in current terms.

So imagine your 5 year old MacBook, namely a Late 2007 MacBook, suddenly breaks down.

Do you:

1. pay $1200 to replace its logic board with a working 5-year-old logic board?
2. buy a freaking new laptop with modern technologies cuz 5 years is enough life time to get out of a laptop

What's the point of upgrading a 5 year old machine when it has some slow DDR2 RAM and SATA1 speeds for hard-drive... When its CPU, GPU, keyboard, touchpad, screen, software support are all out of date.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:21 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by ChristianJapan View Post
One out-of-the-box idea:

Apple ask Intel to produce their new A* CPU instead of Samsung and make in addition a hybrid X86 and Apple-designed A* Core. This way they can still use high performance to drive retina screens, FCP X and Photoshop. On the other side for many cases a new power safe mode with ARM support only for simple email and surfing could increase runtime of battery.
Could be easier to realize in a two chip-design though.

Or nothing really happen and they just use Haswell ...
Or they could convince intel to license the x86 instruction set. With Apple making the chip, Intel could stand to make more money, while charging significantly less due to not having to make the CPU themselves. It might cost Apple a little more, but they're not exactly wanting for revenue. They'd obviously have to stipulate in a contract that Apple can't use the CPU to directly compete with Intel's offerings.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:22 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by pearvsapple View Post
Macbook Air needs to be the hybrid tablet/laptop for Apple.
I wished for that too, but then I tried a Samsung T700T1C tablet/hybrid/laptop and I realized why it's not a good idea yet.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:26 PM   #218
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Does this mean the new MBPs will be the price of the current non-retina MBPs? Because Apple doesn't tend to raise prices without maintaining a cheaper product line for those who want the usual price (as they did with iPad 2 and non retina MBP).

I think the current non retina MBP is quite the right price, and it would be great if they could achieve that with the new version at some point. If they consolidate the two, at least they should reduce the price because people will have no other option.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:37 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by arn View Post
hmm... my read of it was Haswell, but just to invoke a crazy theory -- "new processor platform" - something not intel?

That caught my eye too, but come to think of it, Apple would not change - again and so soon - their platform. Not with their current momentum. S/w houses are now producing most s/w than ever for mac, even game creators are now taking seriously the mac ports for the first time. 2013 is expected to be even better for mac software.

On top of that, many people still relying to the ability of running windows natively on their mac in order to work with specific applications. A new platform would render Mac incompatible with virtually everything.

IMHO changing their cpu platform at this time would be a suicide.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:40 PM   #220
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Apple ! dont convert the MBP to another toy

If Apple wants to call a non upgradeable portable with no optical drive a "MAC BOOK PRO" that is their perogative. But my 2011 MPB will only be replaced by a laptop that is designed for use by a pro. that means upgradable for ram and disc drive and with an optical drive, at least for the next couple of years.

Tes, the new slim MBP with Retina is a fine machine and very pretty, but I personally have had it with Apple's "form over function" designs that removes useful functions like repairability and the ability to upgrade to make a computer slimmer. I'm beginning to think that if Apple designed hand tools, they would remove saw handles to make them slimmer.

Please, Apple don't remove the utility of the MBP just to make it prettier
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:48 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by bungiefan89 View Post
Oh, PLEASE don't make the whole line Retina displays. I don't want to be locked in to paying extra for a screen resolution I don't need...
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:52 PM   #222
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I'm all for it as long as it doesn't raise the price of the 13 inchers. Maybe I'll replace my 2010 by then...
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 02:04 PM   #223
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The only way it would make sense to remove the cmbp line is if they reduce the rmbp prices to cmbp levels. Otherwise, they leave a huge gap in their product line. Not everyone wants to pay $400 more for the rmbp.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 02:05 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by shurcooL View Post
Let's put that in current terms.

So imagine your 5 year old MacBook, namely a Late 2007 MacBook, suddenly breaks down.

Do you:

1. pay $1200 to replace its logic board with a working 5-year-old logic board?
2. buy a freaking new laptop with modern technologies cuz 5 years is enough life time to get out of a laptop
You got me wrong. The point mentioned in the previous post:

for example, the RAM failure of Retina MBP could only be fixed by replacing the logic board - which could cost $1200,
while, in case of Classic MBP, it could be fixed by replacing the RAM - less than $50.

No matter how old the computer is - 3 or 5 years - if you could fix it for less than $50, that is totally a good thing.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 02:05 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by thekeyring View Post

Tim Cook has already said iOS and OS X won't converge.
Exactly... you need OSX to develop for iOS!
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