Apple to Move Mac mini Production to U.S.

[fastlanephil]

Originally Posted by tmroper

Both rumors could be correct, if a new Mac Mini turns out to be the new Mac Pro. A Mac Mini Pro or something like that. But that's just a feeling/fear I've had recently about the Pro.

I'm leaning towards this conclusion. A modular approach would have it's advantages. You could have something that would be not only powerful and expandable but also portable with the convergence of the Mac Pro's power, the Mac Mini's footprint and the Macbook Pro's portability all into one connected system.

I can also see muti-touch wether it's with the iPad or a dedicated device and Siri being integrated into this platform.

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by fastlanephil

I'm leaning towards this conclusion. A modular approach would have it's advantages. You could have something that would be not only powerful and expandable but also portable with the convergence of the Mac Pro's power, the Mac Mini's footprint and the Macbook Pro's portability all into one connected system.

I can also see muti-touch wether it's with the iPad or a dedicated device and Siri being integrated into this platform.

Just as long as "modular" doesn't mean "connected by T-Bolt".

T-Bolt is far too slow to let you build a modular "Mac Pro".

[thekev]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw

Just as long as "modular" doesn't mean "connected by T-Bolt".

T-Bolt is far too slow to let you build a modular "Mac Pro".

Don't confuse them with information. I'd suggest that Apple has already derived what they really wanted from thunderbolt. It meant they could push larger ports onto dongles and build docking station functionality into the existing mini displayports.

[G51989]

Originally Posted by saud0488

And quality will go way down.

Yeah....because China can make things so much better than the US Can. ( Look at the joke at is the Chinese military )

[G4er?]

Originally Posted by rmwebs

"Designed by Apple in California. Made by Foxconn in Texas"

And Foxconn can import the labor from Mexico.

Originally Posted by hleewell

Don't make me happy....
Desktop CPU, desktop GPU for hard core gamers,
removable RAM, thunderbolted up to yin-yang, removable HDD bays,
top flight DAC for music lovers, multimedia powerhouse
for iTunes fans around the world...

Will this dream come true?

Image

Desktop parts for a desktop computer! We can dream.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by G51989

Yeah....because China can make things so much better than the US Can. ( Look at the joke at is the Chinese military )

Because the best way to judge a country is by how well it makes bombs and guns? I would have thought measuring its citizen's health, or education, or well-being, or even their happiness would have been a better gauge? Poor naive me....

[calaverasgrande]

I think a lot of the posts concerning a "Modular Mac Pro" underestimate how hard we beat on our Mac Pros.
I know when I was only using my Mac for light web design and heavy audio processing It seemed like I had unlimited headroom.
As soon as you get into HD video and 3D graphics you are pushing that machine really hard. A mini derived platform would need some serious amount of CPU in a small box just to stay in parity with last years Mac Pro.
AFAIK the regular i5 and i7 chips do NOT do multiple CPU. You need a Xeon class chip.
So then there is the "nuclear option". What if the rumours are true and Apple dumps Intel? They could go with AMD who could surely do a dual quad core or dual hex core cheaper than Intel. Or the most feared option, Apple could go with a bunch of Arm chips. A Swarm of Arm?
But you have to wonder how many Arm chips you would need to substitute for a single Xeon quad.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by calaverasgrande

...Or the most feared option, Apple could go with a bunch of Arm chips. A Swarm of Arm?
But you have to wonder how many Arm chips you would need to substitute for a single Xeon quad.

Good post... but I don't see Apple moving to different family of CPUs. When they switched from PowerPC to Intel, the PowerPC chip was no longer believed to be good enough for Apple, and the long term health of the entire company was based on whether Macs were competitive in the market or not.

At this stage I think Apple sees Intel chips as "good enough". They not necessarily be the "best" ... but I don't know that completely revamping the OS for a product line that no longer supports the entire company would be seen as a justifiable expense. And I think Apple is less concerned about keeping the hardware current, and is focusing on the software experience - tying everything together.

However, I believe Apple has seen that it is vulnerable to any dispute that involves China and the US. If, for whatever reason - and I can think of several, China wanted to exert some economic pressure on the US all it has to do is slow down shipments of products from its ports. At the moment Apple is almost completely vulnerable to this kind of action.... nearly 100% of its products are made in China, and it does not keep much inventory in warehouses. Simply by slowing down shipments by a week, China would impact Apple's corporate health in a seriously negative way.

I see the announcement as Apple simply starting to diversify its manufacturing base so that no single event could endanger its very existence. It needs to set up a whole new supply chain, and the Minis may be seen as simply being the easiest ones to start with.

[saud0488]

Originally Posted by G51989

Yeah....because China can make things so much better than the US Can. ( Look at the joke at is the Chinese military )

Joke? Their military is larger than the entire United States population.

Try again

[G51989]

Originally Posted by saud0488

Joke? Their military is larger than the entire United States population.

Try again

And in any kind of war over the the ocean, their navy will be on the bottom of the sea, and their planes will be burning wrecks.

Chinese military technology is 35 years behind the US. The 5th fleet alone would make quick work of their defenses and navy, and air force. Hell, an F18 Super Hornet could destory 14 chinese aircraft, and by half way back to the carrier before they know what hit them.

The only good thing about the Chinese military is that they're good at murdering their own citizens, and because of sheer numbers. They can resist any invasion force because of sheer numbers, other than that and nukes? useless.

[Lil Chillbil]

usa usa usa usa!!!!

[carlgo]

Hardly any labor, just a few minutes to assemble some sub-assemblies.

However, probably no money laundering or over-sea taxation schemes and that will reduce the profits.

And they will have to abide by pollution laws here. But, likely this sort of assembly in a modern plant would not be a problem in that way anyway.

Small manufactured items are designed to be easily assembled. The assembly quality is exactly the same wherever in the world they are built.

Where Apple will save is in transportation and unloading fees, and it is likely that more Americans will buy the product now as US production is becoming more important to more people.

[calaverasgrande]

Originally Posted by saud0488

Joke? Their military is larger than the entire United States population.

Try again

uh, 2.5 million is < 300 million.
Besides China spends about 10% of what the US does on defense. So those chaps aren't too well equipped.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by G51989

And in any kind of war over the the ocean, ...

China will blockade exports to the Western World, bringing most big American corporations to their knees - followed by the banks, the courier companies, the retailers, the US economy. China can also blockage Taiwan and Japan.

Which, imho, is why Apple is starting to build assembly plants in Brazil, in the US, etc. If there is a blockade Apple will still have capacity to build things. More importantly they will have already created the supply line linkages that can be ramped up should they feel they have to move a major assembly plant.

[G51989]

Originally Posted by snberk103

China will blockade exports to the Western World, bringing most big American corporations to their knees - followed by the banks, the courier companies, the retailers, the US economy. China can also blockage Taiwan and Japan.

China would only do that in the event of War with Japan or Taiwan, in that case there wouldn't be trade anyway, and its not like China makes anything the US NEEDS to survive. In any kind of actual war, China relies on tons of fuel shipments, which the US Navy would block, fun theory that.

Which, imho, is why Apple is starting to build assembly plants in Brazil, in the US, etc. If there is a blockade Apple will still have capacity to build things. More importantly they will have already created the supply line linkages that can be ramped up should they feel they have to move a major assembly plant.

Its lots of factors, Qauilty control is probably one of the reasons Apple will eventually move away from China.

----------

Originally Posted by calaverasgrande

uh, 2.5 million is < 300 million.
Besides China spends about 10% of what the US does on defense. So those chaps aren't too well equipped.

Indeed, they have numbers, but shoddy equipment.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by G51989

China would only do that in the event of War with Japan or Taiwan,

You need to watch the news more. China and Japan are currently having a hot staring contest over a bunch of islets near Okinawa. And of course China has already claimed Taiwan. And now they claim the entire South China Sea.

Actually China only needs to slow down shipments from its docks, and not revert to a full blockade. Inspecting every export for a customs compliance inspection would have a massive negative effect on the western world - which relies on 'Just in time' deliveries...and it would be perfectly legal. A massive slow down would affect people's lives in a myriad of ways, none good.

Originally Posted by G51989

in that case there wouldn't be trade anyway, and its not like China makes anything the US NEEDS to survive.

No... besides just about every computer that runs just about every business in the world. And just about every cell phone that connects businesses and world leaders. And a lot things that some of the largest corporations need to sell to survive. But besides that, not much. Can you imagine the turmoil if 30% of the Fortune 500 started bankruptcy proceedings because they had nothing to sell? The shear numbers of people hitting the dole lines?

Originally Posted by G51989

In any kind of actual war, China relies on tons of fuel shipments, which the US Navy would block, fun theory that.

China would a) Do without. They have a marvellous capacity for doing without. Being poor does that. Most Chinese already live in a non-industrialized agricultural society that does without oil. And b) Any nation who sided with China could do the same with American oil....Say, Iran? I could see Russia providing fuel as well, perhaps.

Originally Posted by G51989

Its lots of factors, Qauilty control is probably one of the reasons Apple will eventually move away from China....

The quality is fine. You get what you pay for. Apple pays for top-notch quality and they get it. If you want cheap and shoddy, China will make that for you to. Just because it's American is not a guarantee it is better made. I've bought plenty of American made crap too. It's all about what you want to pay for. And to be fair... I've bought Canadian made crap too.

-----

I'm going to say it again. I'm convince Apple is diversifying its plants to spread the risk out. It could be that they don't want to be hit by floods or another natural disaster that affects a large swath of China in the same way that Thailand and its HDD plants got hit by floods.

[G51989]

Originally Posted by snberk103

You need to watch the news more. China and Japan are currently having a hot staring contest over a bunch of islets near Okinawa. And of course China has already claimed Taiwan. And now they claim the entire South China Sea.

I am aware of the current situation, I doubt it will go into armed conflict in the next 5 years, 10-15 years? Maybe. But at least for the near future, China can't compete with the US in Military power.

Actually China only needs to slow down shipments from its docks, and not revert to a full blockade. Inspecting every export for a customs compliance inspection would have a massive negative effect on the western world - which relies on 'Just in time' deliveries...and it would be perfectly legal. A massive slow down would affect people's lives in a myriad of ways, none good.

Affect peoples lifes yes, would it kill them? no. And China depends on the consumers in the west.

No... besides just about every computer that runs just about every business in the world. And just about every cell phone that connects businesses and world leaders. And a lot things that some of the largest corporations need to sell to survive. But besides that, not much. Can you imagine the turmoil if 30% of the Fortune 500 started bankruptcy proceedings because they had nothing to sell? The shear numbers of people hitting the dole lines?

Not every computer is made in China, lots aren't. Not every smart phone is made in China ( Lots of Samsungs, Blackberries, HTCs and some Nokias are not made in China ).

And I doubt the US would leave Taiwan and Japan out in the cold over some electronics. It would suck for a little bit, but eventually other countries could pick up the slack. China depends on the west far more than than the west depends on china.

China would a) Do without. They have a marvellous capacity for doing without. Being poor does that. Most Chinese already live in a non-industrialized agricultural society that does without oil. And b) Any nation who sided with China could do the same with American oil....Say, Iran? I could see Russia providing fuel as well, perhaps.

Lots of chinese oil comes from the Middle east, some comes from Russia, my point is, in the event of a large conflict. The US Navy will most likely block tankers from going to China, no military in the world is in a position to stop them, certainly not China's floating junk yard.

Russia might provide fuel, but Russia cannot provide close to enough fuel to power China. And its not a matter of the civvies, without massive oil imports, their military can't work either.

The quality is fine. You get what you pay for. Apple pays for top-notch quality and they get it. If you want cheap and shoddy, China will make that for you to. Just because it's American is not a guarantee it is better made. I've bought plenty of American made crap too. It's all about what you want to pay for. And to be fair... I've bought Canadian made crap too.

Of course, but China still mostly makes the cheap stuff. There are good American products, and good chinese products. But I generally find American products to be better ( Compare a Viking Appliance to a Chinese one ). But you are right.

Canada makes some awesome stuff, my 2011 Crown Vic, an " American" ford was actually built in Canada, great car.

I'm going to say it again. I'm convince Apple is diversifying its plants to spread the risk out. It could be that they don't want to be hit by floods or another natural disaster that affects a large swath of China in the same way that Thailand and its HDD plants got hit by floods.

There are been some pretty bad quality control problems with the iPhone 5, and Dust under iMac screens for example.

I think Apple and other companies are starting to build outside of China due to its economic depression that will occur in 20 or so years.

Also, with automation really starting to take off, it will be cheaper to build plants in say South America, the USA, Canada, Europe, and parts of Asia. Build things slightly more locally, automate it and save on shipping costs.

PS: I do think China will enter a massive depression in the next 20-30 years, with well over 60% of the population unable to work due to age, they will have problems supporting all the people who can't work. It will hurt them.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Originally Posted by snberk103

China will blockade exports to the Western World, bringing most big American corporations to their knees

That sounds like a good reason to work on bringing back self-sufficiency now before it's too late. On the other hand, China's income level is rising at 8% per year on average and that means labor costs are now around 80% higher than they were in 2003 and so small wonder that some items are now approaching parity (or even going beyond it, apparently in the case of the Mac Mini) to making things locally. Heavier items like cars have been cheaper to make in the US for some time (it's why Honda, Toyota and even Subaru, etc. all have plants here rather than just shipping them here). The idea that China can maintain this market dominance forever while maintaining growth and higher standards of living is absurd. Just look at what happened to Japan for proof.

[kazmac]

Makes sense.

I'm looking forward to learning whatever Mac it might be.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by G51989

I am aware of the current situation, I doubt it will go into armed conflict in the next 5 years, 10-15 years? Maybe. But at least for the near future, China can't compete with the US in Military power.

....

PS: I do think China will enter a massive depression in the next 20-30 years, with well over 60% of the population unable to work due to age, they will have problems supporting all the people who can't work. It will hurt them.

There is not going to be a "war" between China and the US....There will be some pushing and shoving matches. Americans - ordinary citizens - would not tolerate the economic upheaval and therefore American politicians are vulnerable to Chinese pressures. And China does not want to start rebuilding its infrastructure - which does not yet have the redundancy to absorb much disruption.

On the other hand.... China can look threatening and make the US do what the US did to the USSR.... engage in an arms race and bankrupts itself. At the moment that seems to be working.

And in the mean time China can also apply economic pressure in a way that the US can't.

China has recently bought a Canadian company with a large stake in the Alberta Oil Sands - and interests in oil fields around the world. Which makes an American oil embargo against China a hostile action against Canada, and half a dozen other countries. The US has better have a really good reason to be embargoing China or they may find that their allies take China's side. Which is why it won't get to a "war". That is so old-fashioned now. Nobody, not even the US wins a "war" against anybody bigger than a puppet state anymore. That is so last old fashioned.

So....Foxconn and Apple look into the future and decide to diversify their factories to make them less likely to be used the blunt levers of economic pressure.

ps I'd put my money on China should it come to the stage that both sides were deprived on oil. They still move a lot of stuff an people without it. They don't depend on plastics as much. They don't need it to grow food. And if you don't think the Chinese haven't figured out how to close the oil routes entirely then you don't understand that for that culture a short term plan is one that is measured in decades... not months.[COLOR="#808080"]

[G51989]

Originally Posted by snberk103

There is not going to be a "war" between China and the US....There will be some pushing and shoving matches. Americans - ordinary citizens - would not tolerate the economic upheaval and therefore American politicians are vulnerable to Chinese pressures. And China does not want to start rebuilding its infrastructure - which does not yet have the redundancy to absorb much disruption.

[COLOR="#808080"]

You hit the nail on the head, There won't be aa full on War, pushing and shoving, which China knows it can't win, its not even capable of shooting down a US fighter, so they know they'd lose.

And China's " cred " would go away quickly in war.

But you are right, small chance of war. But America will defend Japan and Taiwan, and the Chinese know they would lose, so thats why they don't do it.

On the other hand.... China can look threatening and make the US do what the US did to the USSR.... engage in an arms race and bankrupts itself. At the moment that seems to be working.

That won't work The Chinese are almost 40 years behind the USA in military tech. The 5th fleet alone could turn China intro a crater.

And in the mean time China can also apply economic pressure in a way that the US can't.

Nope, China needs the US and the EU to survive, without them, they'll go into a depression,

China has recently bought a Canadian company with a large stake in the Alberta Oil Sands - and interests in oil fields around the world. Which makes an American oil embargo against China a hostile action against Canada, and half a dozen other countries. The US has better have a really good reason to be embargoing China or they may find that their allies take China's side. Which is why it won't get to a "war". That is so old-fashioned now. Nobody, not even the US wins a "war" against anybody bigger than a puppet state anymore. That is so last old fashioned.

Correct, however. In the event of a " war " that won't happen, the US is in a MUCH better position than China.

So....Foxconn and Apple look into the future and decide to diversify their factories to make them less likely to be used the blunt levers of economic pressure.

Wise of them, as they know China will start thinking it it controls the world, then they get bombed.

ps I'd put my money on China should it come to the stage that both sides were deprived on oil. They still move a lot of stuff an people without it. They don't depend on plastics as much. They don't need it to grow food. And if you don't think the Chinese haven't figured out how to close the oil routes entirely then you don't understand that for that culture a short term plan is one that is measured in decades... not months.[COLOR="#808080"]

Well the point I made, is that in the event of " war " Chinas navy is on the bottom of the ocean ( if you think PLAN can even defend themselves aganist the USN, your a joker. Anyone who thinks that is a Joker, Chinese military is a ****ing joke, the US could turn China into a burning wreck in a month )

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by G51989

You hit the nail on the head, There won't be aa full on War, pushing and shoving, which China knows it can't win, its not even capable of shooting down a US fighter, so they know they'd lose.
...

People need to remember that China has been global power, and sometimes super power, for more than a thousand years, except for the past couple of centuries. Well before the Europeans thought to look beyond the horizon there is good evidence that Chinese Emperor sent a fleet around the globe to explore, and found only barbarians.

The Chinese have a long history, and long memories. And they think long term. No, they can not win a slug-fest war - you are right ... so they won't fight that war. Though them seem perfectly happy to watch the US bankrupt itself preparing to fight that type of war - one the Chinese aren't going to show up for. Heck - they are lending you the money to build the military that they aren't going to fight. How brilliant is that?

So, while the US continues to erode the goodwill it once had, and to lose its friends and allies China is creating trading blocs and alliances. It is building influence in the South China Sea, and former US allies in that area are now shifting into the Chinese orbit. There are more far far more consumers in that part of the world than in the US and Europe. As these countries become more developed China will be happy to sell them goods as well. They don't need the western markets to survive.... they are building one in their own back yard.

I'd also point out that the China you think so poorly of has more capacity to put people in space than the US does. They also have their own space station.... which is soon to be de-orbited to make room for a newer and bigger version.... leading to a 3rd version in less than decade.

-----

I believe there are already a bunch of Foxxconn factories in SE Asia. I wonder how many of them also make Apple products. The vast majority of Apple's customers - if they think about where their products are made at all - won't care that a few are made in US. Apple is not doing this out of patriotism or marketing.... it's simply to diversify in case of supply disruptions.

[Lerxt]

Ahh the glorious ignorance, born from the love of guns and the misinterpreted 2nd amendment. China rarely resorts to war, it is patient and it is getting what it wants. It want Taiwan first, to finish the revolution, it wants to punish Japan for murdering millions of its citizens and then it want you to respect how rich they have become. It's strategy against the US is to suck it financially dry by temptation. This will weaken the US enough to have it step aside when they pressure Taiwan to come home to mother. It is working quite clearly. The US military spending is actually helping China buy being so excessive, that it weakens the US economy by adding to the budget deficit and borrowings. US influence is much weaker in Asia and people don't respect the US like they used to. If you want to see how to handle China, study Australia.

[snberk103]

In all of this discussion, I haven't seen any indication about where this supposed new assembly factory will be located. Have I just missed that reference?

If not... What are guesses?

It needs to be somewhere with low land prices, and good transportation links. Does it need to be near a port? A rail line? Or just a highway?

If it's highly automated then a large labour pool is not required.... so it's the transportation links that are important. Lots of stuff going in, and stuff coming out. It will depend on "just in time" shipments so reliable links are crucial.

I wonder if the timing on this is simply because US real estate is now so cheap, Foxconn decided that if nothing else owning a chunk of industrial land is good investment regardless of whose goods are being assembled in the factory. If this experiment with Apple doesn't work out they will still have an Assembly Plant.

Too bad Canadian land is still relatively expensive. It would have been nice to have been in the running. I wonder if they looked at Vancouver.... good airport and rail links and a port closer to China than the US ports. Strong commercial ties to China already. If Canada ever ratifies its free trade agreement with the EU a plant in Vancouver could ship either the US or to Europe with no tariffs. Hmmm..... are you listening Foxconn?

[ptram]

Originally Posted by pgiguere1

Twist: The 2013 Mac mini actually is the new Mac for professionals promised by Tim Cook.

I'm a professional, and I use a Mac mini. It is quiet, elegant, unobstrusive, and consumes very little current. No comparison with my previous tower Mac.