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Old Apr 2, 2012, 09:49 AM   #26
GarrettL1979
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This discussion is largely over my head, as I'm new to this (blu ray drive arrives today though!). If I am hoping to rip MKVs of my blu rays for ATV3 playback, should I select DD 3.2+1 en within Make MKVs audio settings? I don't really need subtitles.
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Old Apr 2, 2012, 09:54 AM   #27
khollister
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Originally Posted by GarrettL1979 View Post
This discussion is largely over my head, as I'm new to this (blu ray drive arrives today though!). If I am hoping to rip MKVs of my blu rays for ATV3 playback, should I select DD 3.2+1 en within Make MKVs audio settings? I don't really need subtitles.
If all you want are ATV compatible files, rip the blu-ray with just the lossy 5.1 core audio stream selected in MakeMKV (DTS for a DTS-MA authored disk, DD for a Dolby TrueHD one). Handbrake will create a stereo AAC track as well as a DD5.1 AC3 one.
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Old Apr 2, 2012, 09:56 AM   #28
GarrettL1979
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Originally Posted by khollister View Post
If all you want are ATV compatible files, rip the blu-ray with just the lossy 5.1 core audio stream selected in MakeMKV (DTS for a DTS-MA authored disk, DD for a Dolby TrueHD one). Handbrake will create a stereo AAC track as well as a DD5.1 AC3 one.
thanks! is this the default audio setting?
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Old Apr 6, 2012, 08:27 AM   #29
GarrettL1979
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I think I'm still a little confused by this. Here is my understanding though-- please correct me if I'm wrong. The ATV 3 does not support TrueHD or DTS-HD audio, and these are huge files, so it is not worth selecting this option in Make MKV. Because of this fact, it is best to select DD 3/2+1 within the audio settings, right? I don't have surround set up in our house-- just a standard stereo setup.

Just want to make sure before I start ripping my blu-ray collection. Thanks for the help!
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Old Apr 6, 2012, 09:04 AM   #30
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If you just have stereo and you don't plan on getting a 5.1 setup audio you can skip the AC3 track altogether. Only the AAC stereo track is mandatory.

You can also include the directors commentary on an additional AAC track if desired.

And yes the default ATV2 setting is AAC + AC3
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Old Apr 6, 2012, 10:37 AM   #31
GarrettL1979
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Originally Posted by blueroom View Post
If you just have stereo and you don't plan on getting a 5.1 setup audio you can skip the AC3 track altogether. Only the AAC stereo track is mandatory.

You can also include the directors commentary on an additional AAC track if desired.

And yes the default ATV2 setting is AAC + AC3
Sadly, I don't know which MKV settings correspond with AAC & AC3. I assume DD 3/2+1 = AAC & AC3?? If so, would you recommend going with this option if I'm only running stereo now but might move to 5.1 in the future? I suppose that would give me the option.

If I went solely with a stereo/AAC, which Make MKV audio option should I select? And would this make the file significantly smaller?

Sorry for all of the questions. I really appreciate the help!
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Old Apr 6, 2012, 12:13 PM   #32
mic j
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Originally Posted by GarrettL1979 View Post
Sadly, I don't know which MKV settings correspond with AAC & AC3. I assume DD 3/2+1 = AAC & AC3?? If so, would you recommend going with this option if I'm only running stereo now but might move to 5.1 in the future? I suppose that would give me the option.

If I went solely with a stereo/AAC, which Make MKV audio option should I select? And would this make the file significantly smaller?

Sorry for all of the questions. I really appreciate the help!
The lossy Dolby Digital track is the DD3/2+1 track. When you convert to the mp4 using handbrake and the aTV preset, the preset will automatically create a stereo track that will say "pro logic II), the second track it creates is the AC-3 passthrough track.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 07:46 PM   #33
Robsta2142
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Thought I would share my problems with HD audio and the mp4 container to see if anyone can shed some light on them.

DTS-HD Master Audio (5.1)

As others have mentioned it is definitely possible to include DTS-HD Master Audio (5.1) in an mp4.

My original workflow to include the DTS-HD MA was as follows:

1. Feed a blu-ray .mkv rip containing a DTS-HD MA track into handbrake.
2. Select the ATV3 Preset.
3. Add a third audio track, selecting the DTS-HD MA track as the input and the Codec as DTS-HD Passthru.
4. Include any necessary additional commentary tracks.
5. Hit Start.

This gave me an .m4v file which I would then feed into Subler to re-name the audio tracks. Subler would correctly show the video track and each of the audio tracks I had selected to include from Handbrake (including the DTS-HD MA track). However, I noticed that the duration of the DTS-HD MA track appeared as 0:00:00:00. This audio track failed to play in MPlayerX which does support playback of DTS-HD MA in .mp4.

Not sure if I was doing anything wrong there but I couldn't figure out why it was doing it so now I try a different approach:

1. Feed a blu-ray .mkv rip containing a DTS-HD MA track into handbrake.
2. Select the ATV3 Preset.
3. Add a third audio track, selecting the DTS-HD MA track as the input and the Codec as DTS-HD Passthru.
4. Change the output file format from MP4 file to MKV file.
5. Include any necessary additional commentary tracks.
6. Hit Start.
7. Feed Subler the newly created .mkv.
8. Passthru the video and audio tracks (including the DTS-HD MA track).
9. Save it as an .m4v.

This resulting .m4v includes everything that I select from handbrake and the DTS-HD MA track has the same duration as the other audio tracks. The DTS-HD MA track also plays fine in MPlayerX.

Couple of things I am still not sure about regarding DTS-HD MA and .mp4:

1. Is it correct that passing through the DTS-HD MA track in Handbrake whether through the .mp4 container (which doesn't work for me :s) or the .mkv container, passes through the full DTS-HD MA track and not just the core? (For anyone else, as I understand, the DTS-HD MA track has two parts, the "core" which contains the compressed DTS audio information which older non DTS-HD MA decoders can still use to play the audio, and the "extra information" to make it DTS-HD MA which newer decoders do support).

2. Not been able to find this out anywhere but are you able to include an 8 channel (7.1) DTS-HD MA audio track in the mp4 container? If so, does anyone know a way to do this?

Dolby TrueHD (5.1)

1. Is it possible to include this in the mp4 container? I don't think handbrake supports passing it through and neither does Subler I think (when I try adding an .mkv rip of a film which includes a Dolby TrueHD audio track into Subler, it won't allow me to pass it through).

2. Same as above, is it possible to include an 8 channel (7.1) Dolby TrueHD audio track in the mp4 container?

Last edited by Robsta2142; Dec 27, 2012 at 08:48 PM.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 09:37 AM   #34
Rmafive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robsta2142 View Post
Thought I would share my problems with HD audio and the mp4 container to see if anyone can shed some light on them.

DTS-HD Master Audio (5.1)

As others have mentioned it is definitely possible to include DTS-HD Master Audio (5.1) in an mp4.

My original workflow to include the DTS-HD MA was as follows:

1. Feed a blu-ray .mkv rip containing a DTS-HD MA track into handbrake.
2. Select the ATV3 Preset.
3. Add a third audio track, selecting the DTS-HD MA track as the input and the Codec as DTS-HD Passthru.
4. Include any necessary additional commentary tracks.
5. Hit Start.

This gave me an .m4v file which I would then feed into Subler to re-name the audio tracks. Subler would correctly show the video track and each of the audio tracks I had selected to include from Handbrake (including the DTS-HD MA track). However, I noticed that the duration of the DTS-HD MA track appeared as 0:00:00:00. This audio track failed to play in MPlayerX which does support playback of DTS-HD MA in .mp4.

Not sure if I was doing anything wrong there but I couldn't figure out why it was doing it so now I try a different approach:

1. Feed a blu-ray .mkv rip containing a DTS-HD MA track into handbrake.
2. Select the ATV3 Preset.
3. Add a third audio track, selecting the DTS-HD MA track as the input and the Codec as DTS-HD Passthru.
4. Change the output file format from MP4 file to MKV file.
5. Include any necessary additional commentary tracks.
6. Hit Start.
7. Feed Subler the newly created .mkv.
8. Passthru the video and audio tracks (including the DTS-HD MA track).
9. Save it as an .m4v.

This resulting .m4v includes everything that I select from handbrake and the DTS-HD MA track has the same duration as the other audio tracks. The DTS-HD MA track also plays fine in MPlayerX.

Couple of things I am still not sure about regarding DTS-HD MA and .mp4:

1. Is it correct that passing through the DTS-HD MA track in Handbrake whether through the .mp4 container (which doesn't work for me :s) or the .mkv container, passes through the full DTS-HD MA track and not just the core? (For anyone else, as I understand, the DTS-HD MA track has two parts, the "core" which contains the compressed DTS audio information which older non DTS-HD MA decoders can still use to play the audio, and the "extra information" to make it DTS-HD MA which newer decoders do support).

2. Not been able to find this out anywhere but are you able to include an 8 channel (7.1) DTS-HD MA audio track in the mp4 container? If so, does anyone know a way to do this?

Dolby TrueHD (5.1)

1. Is it possible to include this in the mp4 container? I don't think handbrake supports passing it through and neither does Subler I think (when I try adding an .mkv rip of a film which includes a Dolby TrueHD audio track into Subler, it won't allow me to pass it through).

2. Same as above, is it possible to include an 8 channel (7.1) Dolby TrueHD audio track in the mp4 container?
I currently am using the latest nightly build of Handbrake and when I convert mkv's (which contain a DTS-HD track) I add the DTS-HD as a passthrough in the third audio track. I currently am doing this to future proof my collection, as the apple TV's cannot currently play DTS-HD, but I assume this feature will be present in the near future. However, when I convert these movies, the DTS-HD track works perfectly fine and the times line up between the three tracks. This might have to do with the fact that I am using a nightly build, but I am not sure why you are having any issues. Unfortunately, I don't have any answers to your two questions, but I do know that Handbrake currently does not support TrueHD passthrough. Though I do think it is possible to passthrough a DTS-HD MA track.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:19 AM   #35
Mydrivec
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Maybe it is just my hearing sensitivity but I would question whether all the extra work is worth the effort.

So currently, I have a 50" tv with a Sony Blu Ray 5.1 system and an ATV3. I also have a windows home server that holds all my digital files.

I use MKV to pull from blu ray and pass that file through Handbrake using the preset for ATV3. Most movies spew a 4-6gb file and that goes on my server. From there I enter the server (running Itunes) and stream to my ATV3.

My point is this...this process yields a picture that to me looks identical to the blu ray disc when it is playing (1080p) and the sound is fine. I get why you would want to future proof but will anyone really hear the difference in 90% of most living rooms?

I suppose I don't see the advantage or the space cost. Maybe that is just me? When you get up to 300 or so movies, the space does become an issue. I have a 9TB server and it is just over half full (though that includes music, movies, pictures and backups for 2 other windows machines). Oh, and it duplicates files for easy hard disc replacement (hot swap).

So please enlighten me...is this worth the extra work and storage? Before you answer, I do have minor hearing loss in one ear so I can not tell the difference between 256 bit music files and 320 or lossless...though I can usually pick out a 128 vs. 256 version.

Thanks.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 11:48 AM   #36
Robsta2142
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Re the audio, I have no idea whether there is any audible difference between HD audio and normal DTS 5.1/Dolby Digital 5.1 (not got a compatible setup). Like Rmafive, I am only including the HD audio for when I get a capable surround system in the future. Reading around though, a lot of people say there isn't much difference between the normal and HD audio. For me, space isn't a huge issue either so I might as well do it and have no regrets later.

Re the video, there are definite noticeable difference for me between a lossless blu-ray rip and a transcoded version e.g. a version transcoded with Handbrake using the ATV3 preset. Sometimes I watch films in front of the computer doing other stuff where the difference is very noticeable. Other times, I watch films sitting about 3.5-4m away from a 42" screen and can still see the difference.

For this reason when I rip my blu-rays I split them into two categories and have two workflows for both:

1. Blu-rays with a video track using the h.264 codec with no forced subtitles.
2. Blu-rays with a video track using the vc-1 codec/blu-rays with a video track using the h.264 codec with forced subtitles.

For the first category, I use handbrake to transcode the audio I need and then mux back in the original h.264 video track using subler. This way I get to keep the untouched original video track bit for bit. In your case though the bitrate of the video track in almost all cases would be too high for the ATV3 which only supports 100 Mbit/s ethernet. I use my own computer which has 1 Gbit/s ethernet together with Plex Media Centre so this is not a problem for me.

For the second category, I transcode using the ATV3 preset, changing only the CQ to 18 which for me I feel is the best I can get them to look.

I also keep a backup of all my blu-ray .mkv's so that I can re-transcode any necessary second category blu-rays when new codecs get released such as h.265 which could save future disk space over the h.264 that handbrake uses atm.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 10:12 AM   #37
Mydrivec
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Originally Posted by Robsta2142 View Post
Re the audio, I have no idea whether there is any audible difference between HD audio and normal DTS 5.1/Dolby Digital 5.1 (not got a compatible setup). Like Rmafive, I am only including the HD audio for when I get a capable surround system in the future. Reading around though, a lot of people say there isn't much difference between the normal and HD audio. For me, space isn't a huge issue either so I might as well do it and have no regrets later.

Re the video, there are definite noticeable difference for me between a lossless blu-ray rip and a transcoded version e.g. a version transcoded with Handbrake using the ATV3 preset. Sometimes I watch films in front of the computer doing other stuff where the difference is very noticeable. Other times, I watch films sitting about 3.5-4m away from a 42" screen and can still see the difference.

For this reason when I rip my blu-rays I split them into two categories and have two workflows for both:

1. Blu-rays with a video track using the h.264 codec with no forced subtitles.
2. Blu-rays with a video track using the vc-1 codec/blu-rays with a video track using the h.264 codec with forced subtitles.

For the first category, I use handbrake to transcode the audio I need and then mux back in the original h.264 video track using subler. This way I get to keep the untouched original video track bit for bit. In your case though the bitrate of the video track in almost all cases would be too high for the ATV3 which only supports 100 Mbit/s ethernet. I use my own computer which has 1 Gbit/s ethernet together with Plex Media Centre so this is not a problem for me.

For the second category, I transcode using the ATV3 preset, changing only the CQ to 18 which for me I feel is the best I can get them to look.

I also keep a backup of all my blu-ray .mkv's so that I can re-transcode any necessary second category blu-rays when new codecs get released such as h.265 which could save future disk space over the h.264 that handbrake uses atm.

Ohhh I had not thought of keeping the MKV file for recoding down the road! Excellent idea! Thanks!
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