Subler/MP4Tools Help

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

Crap. now I think I'm more confused then ever. MP4Tools isn't making any sense.

I just reuxed 5 gb file and I ended up with a 349 mb m4v. I set it so the video was pass thru, the audio was ac5 5.1 and add 2 channel and that's it.

I guess I just don't understand how this program works. I'm obviously doing something wrong.

Image

The settings are def. OK. Can you try with another mkv?

[Pyromonkey83]

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

The only other question I would have is what bit rate to use for the audio file?

Also, once the file is output from MP4Tools can I throw it into Subler to update the metadata in it?

For the AC3 track, do either 448kbps or 640kbps. Depends on you wanted level of audio quality. For the 2 channel (If it gives you the option for this) just go with 160kbps Pro Logic II as that is the max the ATV will use (Also, any higher is pretty much just wasted memory as the benefits over 160 are almost nonexistent).

Once Mp4Tools is done, yes you can use Subler to update the metadata. Make sure, however, that under the preferences, you have the checkbox for "Convert all AC3 tracks to AAC" UNCHECKED.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83

Once Mp4Tools is done, yes you can use Subler to update the metadata.

BTW, why don't you use a better metadata editor - for example, even iTunes? They'd be a much better choice for metadata editing; for example, they have multi-row input fields, unlike Subler.

Also, the thread HERE describes how you can use free(!!!) tools to automatically look up and add metadata to videos (look for the “iTunes Tagging” section). (See my dedicated article at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1511080 for more info.)

[DaGrandMastah]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

The settings are def. OK. Can you try with another mkv?

Weird. I tried it again with the same mkv and it worked. Multiple times it came out wrong and now all of a sudden it was fine.

Thanks for that tagging info too. I'm gonna check that batch service out and see how I like it.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

BTW, why don't you use a better metadata editor - for example, even iTunes? They'd be a much better choice for metadata editing; for example, they have multi-row input fields, unlike Subler.

Also, the thread HERE describes how you can use free(!!!) tools to automatically look up and add metadata to videos (look for the “iTunes Tagging” section). (See my dedicated article at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1511080 for more info.)

I think Subler is a fine metadata editor. Can you explain why you think others are better (especially iTunes, which I have always found which fields to use to be somewhat cryptic)?

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by mic j

I think Subler is a fine metadata editor. Can you explain why you think others are better (especially iTunes, which I have always found which fields to use to be somewhat cryptic)?

iTunes has all the metadata fields Subler has and it's much easier / faster to work with it to quickly manually fill in them. At least IMHO.

[DaGrandMastah]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

iTunes has all the metadata fields Subler has and it's much easier / faster to work with it to quickly manually fill in them. At least IMHO.

So far none of the files that I've encoded using mp4tools works on apple tv. They won't play. i'll hit the play button and just goes back to paused 2 seconds later. it won't start the movie. They play fine in iTunes though.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

iTunes has all the metadata fields Subler has and it's much easier / faster to work with it to quickly manually fill in them. At least IMHO.

As you know, with Subler, it takes about 5 clicks. Search for metadata, accept its findings, accept the artwork, add and save. With iTunes, you have to go somewhere and find your metadata (dvd package, IMDB, etc), manually type in all the data you want, drag artwork into the tab and save. I just don't understand how you can say that's easier and faster. I can add metadata to a dvd or tv show in probably less than 30s.

----------

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

So far none of the files that I've encoded using mp4tools works on apple tv. They won't play. i'll hit the play button and just goes back to paused 2 seconds later. it won't start the movie. They play fine in iTunes though.

Did you optimize the files with Subler? Not sure mp4tools optimizes.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by mic j

As you know, with Subler, it takes about 5 clicks.

Sorry, there has been a misunderstanding. I referred to manually filling the fields - not doing so automatically.

[Pyromonkey83]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

Sorry, there has been a misunderstanding. I referred to manually filling the fields - not doing so automatically.

Even so, iTunes is lacking many metadata fields compared to subler. iTunes can add a few things, but you can not give movies or TV shows the HD tags or rating tags like you can with Subler. Also, adding things automatically with a quick 20 second search compared to filling in each individual field manually is a pain. I should know, I did 1400+ movies and TV shows that way before finding the wonderful magic that is Subler.

[spacepower7]

Originally Posted by dynaflash

The AppleTV cannot play back aac discrete 6 channel, it gets downmixed into a strange 3.0. If using aac I'd stick with the DPL2.

Best would be to take the DTS to AC3 5.1 Dolby which as is well documented the AppleTV can pass thru to your receiver properly.

Can the AppleTV playback AAC discrete 6 channels over HDMI? Are there any Receivers that support that format?

----------

Originally Posted by Pyromonkey83

Even so, iTunes is lacking many metadata fields compared to subler. iTunes can add a few things, but you can not give movies or TV shows the HD tags or rating tags like you can with Subler. Also, adding things automatically with a quick 20 second search compared to filling in each individual field manually is a pain. I should know, I did 1400+ movies and TV shows that way before finding the wonderful magic that is Subler.

If you don't mind paying for software, I highly recommend the paid version of Identify2 for tagging. The paid version allows customized renaming of the files such as:
Name - year - seasons - episode - HD/SD - rating - any [] or () around any metadata written to the file. I use my own tag custom " (ID) " so that I know that the file was tagged with Identify2.

I have no affiliation with the app, I just think its great.

[DaGrandMastah]

Is there any benefit to doing 640 kbps per channel when converting to ac3? MP4Tools defaults to 448 kbps but handbrake, when converting to appletv3, used 640.

Also, just to confirm....mp4tools automatically optimizes a file?

I still find subler to be the best for tagging movies cause fo all the arguements that were already stated in this thread so I want to make sure that's all I need to do in subler to finish off my projects.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

Is there any benefit to doing 640 kbps per channel when converting to ac3? MP4Tools defaults to 448 kbps but handbrake, when converting to appletv3, used 640.

Also, just to confirm....mp4tools automatically optimizes a file?

I still find subler to be the best for tagging movies cause fo all the arguements that were already stated in this thread so I want to make sure that's all I need to do in subler to finish off my projects.

Just so you are aware, the aTV movie description field is of limited size and if you have a lot of metadata lines (director, producer,etc) the description field will decrease in size even further to accommodate those lines. If you want to maximize the movie description field size you can delete those fields using Subler. Most (if not all) of the other metadata tagging programs will allow you to leave the additional fields blank (or unselected) but do not actually remove them from the aTV display. Thus you end up with a smaller description field. Subler is the only tagger that I have used that allows actual removal of the whole field. Just an FYI.

[DaGrandMastah]

Just realized that the reason I was havinh problem with mp4tools had nothing to do with the file or the program....it's my yamaha receiver. For some reason it just won't transmit the video for these files. It works on some but not others. Not sure if it's because of the sound or video. Anyone have any ideas what could be causing it?

I know it has to do because of the sound. The same issue came up when hooking it up directly to the TV until I changed Dolby Digital in the settings to Auto. It seems that the receiver can't decode the ac3 5.1 sound.

[emmgunn]

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

Just realized that the reason I was havinh problem with mp4tools had nothing to do with the file or the program....it's my yamaha receiver. For some reason it just won't transmit the video for these files. It works on some but not others. Not sure if it's because of the sound or video. Anyone have any ideas what could be causing it?

I know it has to do because of the sound. The same issue came up when hooking it up directly to the TV until I changed Dolby Digital in the settings to Auto. It seems that the receiver can't decode the ac3 5.1 sound.

It may be an MP4tools issue. The just uploaded version 3.2.2 fixes a bug that sometimes caused freezes on the ATV, usually files with AC3 audio and and added AAC track. I'm not sure of the cause, but the new version fixed the bug that I could duplicate. Give it a try before you waste too much time fiddling with your receiver. BTW, I've got a Yamaha receiver and have no issues with AC3 audio, though there could be something up with your settings on connections. For the ATV, I've had the best luck setting Dolby Digital to ON not Auto.

I hope this helps. Cheers.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by emmgunn

It may be an MP4tools issue. The just uploaded version 3.2.2 fixes a bug that sometimes caused freezes on the ATV, usually files with AC3 audio and and added AAC track. I'm not sure of the cause, but the new version fixed the bug that I could duplicate. Give it a try before you waste too much time fiddling with your receiver. BTW, I've got a Yamaha receiver and have no issues with AC3 audio, though there could be something up with your settings on connections. For the ATV, I've had the best luck setting Dolby Digital to ON not Auto.

I hope this helps. Cheers.

Bought your app the other day, even though I only use it occasionally. Just want to compliment you, it is a very fine app to have in your toolbox. And most importantly, I like your support of the product, as demonstrated by the above.

[spacepower7]

Originally Posted by mic j

Just so you are aware, the aTV movie description field is of limited size and if you have a lot of metadata lines (director, producer,etc) the description field will decrease in size even further to accommodate those lines. If you want to maximize the movie description field size you can delete those fields using Subler. Most (if not all) of the other metadata tagging programs will allow you to leave the additional fields blank (or unselected) but do not actually remove them from the aTV display. Thus you end up with a smaller description field. Subler is the only tagger that I have used that allows actual removal of the whole field. Just an FYI.

Thanks for that info on Subler. Many times when I use Identify2, the movie description gets cut off. When I'm lucky, Indenify2 will find both a long and short description.

[DaGrandMastah]

Originally Posted by emmgunn

It may be an MP4tools issue. The just uploaded version 3.2.2 fixes a bug that sometimes caused freezes on the ATV, usually files with AC3 audio and and added AAC track. I'm not sure of the cause, but the new version fixed the bug that I could duplicate. Give it a try before you waste too much time fiddling with your receiver. BTW, I've got a Yamaha receiver and have no issues with AC3 audio, though there could be something up with your settings on connections. For the ATV, I've had the best luck setting Dolby Digital to ON not Auto.

I hope this helps. Cheers.

Thanks for the response and info. That sounds like it may be one of the issues. The other thing I realized is that I'm connecting the appletv to my receiver using HDMI but no optical cable. From what I'm reading, HDMI has issues (or it just flat out can't) read AC3 signal so I'd need to have this hooked up to my optical cable to get it to work. Is that correct?

And I agree with the above post, while I have yet to get a file to work with the AC3, mp4tools has been fantastic in converting my movies. The problem's I'm having don't appear to be related to any one issue and the files have all worked perfectly with dolby digital set to off. Just trying to get that one last piece of the puzzle.

[spacepower7]

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

Just realized that the reason I was havinh problem with mp4tools had nothing to do with the file or the program....it's my yamaha receiver. For some reason it just won't transmit the video for these files. It works on some but not others. Not sure if it's because of the sound or video. Anyone have any ideas what could be causing it?

I know it has to do because of the sound. The same issue came up when hooking it up directly to the TV until I changed Dolby Digital in the settings to Auto. It seems that the receiver can't decode the ac3 5.1 sound.

How do you have your system wired? Some HDTVs convert the 5.1 sound, input via HDMI, to 2 channel audio when sending the audio out the optical jack.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by spacepower7

Thanks for that info on Subler. Many times when I use Identify2, the movie description gets cut off. When I'm lucky, Indenify2 will find both a long and short description.

Sometimes, even the "short" description can be pretty long and get chopped. I often go to IMDB.com and look up the movie for it's description. They tend to be very concise there. When my wife is trying to find something to watch, if the description is over 2 sentences, she loses patience and moves on. So I have to keep them short.

----------

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

Thanks for the response and info. That sounds like it may be one of the issues. The other thing I realized is that I'm connecting the appletv to my receiver using HDMI but no optical cable. From what I'm reading, HDMI has issues (or it just flat out can't) read AC3 signal so I'd need to have this hooked up to my optical cable to get it to work. Is that correct?

HDMI has no problem with AC3 (that I am aware of, anyway). AC3 is just Dolby Digital 5.1. Some AVR's can have HDMI pass-through issues, though. As Spacepower7 requested, can you state exactly how everything (aTV, AVR, TV) is wired and also clearly state the problem again?

[DaGrandMastah]

Originally Posted by spacepower7

How do you have your system wired? Some HDTVs convert the 5.1 sound, input via HDMI, to 2 channel audio when sending the audio out the optical jack.

I currently have my Apple TV hooked up directly to my Receiver (HDMI 4). The receiver is hooekd up to the TV so all video and audio goes through it.

The video plays fine and any audio other than 5.1 ac3 plays fine through my receiver speakers....but for some reason it has issues with the 5.1 ac3. If I start a movie using the set up above, with dolby digital set to on and an ac3 5.1 and aac 2 channel audio set up on the streamed apple tv file then the movie won't start (no video, no sound, nothing). If I turn dolby digital from on to off in the apple tv settings then it will work using the aac 2 channel audio.

I decided to try it out with an opitcal cable because of the below article.

http://techtips.salon.com/hdmi-vs-op...ble-21243.html

Audio Limitations
Optical cables support surround sound with up to 5.1 channels, while HDMI supports Dolby Digital Plus, DTS HD and TrueHD formats. While most television programming is broadcast in surround sound, many Blu-ray discs offer enhanced sound quality. If you're an avid Blu-ray watcher and want the best possible sound, HDMI is the best choice for you.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

I currently have my Apple TV hooked up directly to my Receiver (HDMI 4). The receiver is hooekd up to the TV so all video and audio goes through it.

The video plays fine and any audio other than 5.1 ac3 plays fine through my receiver speakers....but for some reason it has issues with the 5.1 ac3. If I start a movie using the set up above, with dolby digital set to on and an ac3 5.1 and aac 2 channel audio set up on the streamed apple tv file then the movie won't start (no video, no sound, nothing). If I turn dolby digital from on to off in the apple tv settings then it will work using the aac 2 channel audio.

I decided to try it out with an opitcal cable because of the below article.

http://techtips.salon.com/hdmi-vs-op...ble-21243.html

Audio Limitations
Optical cables support surround sound with up to 5.1 channels, while HDMI supports Dolby Digital Plus, DTS HD and TrueHD formats. While most television programming is broadcast in surround sound, many Blu-ray discs offer enhanced sound quality. If you're an avid Blu-ray watcher and want the best possible sound, HDMI is the best choice for you.

And you ripped your BR using MakeMKv, then remuxed the mkv to m4v using mp4tools and just transcoding the DTS audio track to AC3 and AAC audio tracks, just passing though the video, correct?

The article you cite is stating that HDMI can carry both SD and HD audio formats (DD plus, DTS-HD, True HD) while optical can ONLY carry SD audio formats (stereo, DD 5.1, DTS).

[DaGrandMastah]

Originally Posted by mic j

And you ripped your BR using MakeMKv, then remuxed the mkv to m4v using mp4tools and just transcoding the DTS audio track to AC3 and AAC audio tracks, just passing though the video, correct?

The article you cite is stating that HDMI can carry both SD and HD audio formats (DD plus, DTS-HD, True HD) while optical can ONLY carry SD audio formats (stereo, DD 5.1, DTS).

Yes correct. I used MakeMKV....everything else was done through MP4Tools exactly as you said.

I misunderstood the article then. :/ I was hoping that would have resolved the issue.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by DaGrandMastah

Yes correct. I used MakeMKV....everything else was done through MP4Tools exactly as you said.

I misunderstood the article then. :/ I was hoping that would have resolved the issue.

An optical cable may solve your problem, if the problem lies with the AVR video pass-through. If the problem is with the file, it won't. If the optical cable does not solve the problem, analyze your mkv with media inspector or media info and post the results here. With that, we may be able to spot a problem with the file. Also, is this a problem with a certain single file, a group of files that all have gone through mp4tools to convert the dts to AC3/AAC, or all files, whether they have DTS or Dolby Digital as their audio tracks?

[DaGrandMastah]

Originally Posted by mic j

An optical cable may solve your problem, if the problem lies with the AVR video pass-through. If the problem is with the file, it won't. If the optical cable does not solve the problem, analyze your mkv with media inspector or media info and post the results here. With that, we may be able to spot a problem with the file. Also, is this a problem with a certain single file, a group of files that all have gone through mp4tools to convert the dts to AC3/AAC, or all files, whether they have DTS or Dolby Digital as their audio tracks?

This is happening to all of the files that have gone through the same process. I tested it out with 2 other files and the same exact thing happens.

Is there any particular reason why the AVR video pass-through would be an issue?