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Old Dec 26, 2012, 02:44 PM   #76
edry.hilario
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Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
Can you see your dock icons when you look at iMovie or iPhoto full screen? That is my biggest problem right now. Both iMovie and iPhoto, which I like using full screen, are just the right shade of grey to show my browser outlines and dock icons.

Unfortunately, the two Apple Stores I live between do not have any stock of the 27-inch iMac. They said that they have had 27-inch iMacs in stock, but they go quickly. I'm not willing to wait for a replacement to be shipped next month, so if they don't have one in stock to exchange for soon, I'll just return it and then wait for stock to come in. If the next one does it as well, I'll just exchange it for a MacBook Pro and get a different display. I will not accept seeing remnants of icons and windows in grey screens.
agreed, however i getting a replacement for mine and they said that since its a replacement they do put me on top the list (so they say) i keep talking to the same agent and she says mine will likely get shipped at the beginning of jan, lets hope thats the case and above all lets hope i get a machine that works this time around.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 12:38 AM   #77
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My BTO 27" (3.4 i7, 680, 3gb fusion) arrived today and sadly, without even looking for it, has terrible image retention. Particularly noticeable on dark backgrounds (Lightroom showed up a heavily ghosted / retained picture of Mail).

Takes around 2 minutes to develop and 15-20 to wear off.

Machine was quite warm as I was setting up / loading software etc.

Apple will replace it after talking to support.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:19 PM   #78
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Tested again after it had been off for a while and much less prominent. I think it is worse when the unit is under load / warm.

Will do more testing today.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:37 PM   #79
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My 27/i7/680 BTO turned up today. Noticed heavy retention after a couple of hours use. The retention shows as blue tinted areas on grey screens (The dashboard shows up the retention very clearly, as does iPhoto and iMovie). It seems to take around 5-10 minutes to burn in, then around 20-25 minutes to dissipate. Think I'd better call Applecare in the morning..

Shame, 'cus in every other way this machine is a stunner.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 03:19 PM   #80
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It seems to me as if hard drive activity causes the retention to be much worse. That may be why it was worse for me on the first day. I was copying a lot of data off of external hard drives.

I'll be testing that theory tonight because I'm going to back up all of my data so that I can return the iMac to the Apple Store tomorrow morning. I won't be exchanging for another one, though. I'm picking up an external display and will get something else to last me until the Mac Pros are updated. I just don't have time to deal with this and don't care to play the good panel/bad panel lottery.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 07:51 PM   #81
drxcm
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Been using the machine all day - image retention less of an issue, now that all my migration has been done. In fact, I haven't really noticed it today.

I agree with Lava Lamp Freak - seems most apparent when there is heavy disk usage.

I'm in two minds about exchanging - the 27" I have is otherwise perfect, no dead pixels and minimal backlight bleed (very acceptable).

Hmmm...
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:45 PM   #82
Bluesplinter
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I've been following this thread since Panic's Cabel Sasser first mentioned his image retention problems on Twitter ( https://twitter.com/Cabel/status/282286482411094016 ). I was *this* close to ordering, but now I'm spooked. I'm not near an Apple store, so any returning would be via shipping, which I am loathe to do.

However, it appears the issue is mostly appearing on the higher end 27" models. Since I don't game much -- mostly older RPGs (NWN2, KOTOR, and the soon-coming Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition), I figure the base 27" model with the 660m GPU (and fusion drive) can handle those games... but please correct me if I'm wrong!

So, has this image retention problem shown up on the base models? If so, I'll wait 'til it is sorted out, but I am SO ready to move on from my current 7,1 iMac.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:55 AM   #83
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Hope this is not a widespread or major issue as I'm still waiting for my 27", but I do have Apple Care so worst case wait a month and if it's no better I'd return it when you're more likely to get a replacement quickly.

Sorry if this has been asked but how does the exchange process normally go, do they send you a replacement first or do you have to send it off and wait. As my iMac will be my work computer and I can't be without it.

ETA - okay read the posts (well most of them) and it's hard to tell how many have this issue. I'll check mine when I get it. 27" with i7, 680mx and 1Tb Fusion.

With an issue like this IMO if you ordered though a store they should order a replacement then when it comes in take in the old one and they should transfer your data and wipe the old one in front of you.

Last edited by Lancer; Dec 28, 2012 at 01:15 AM.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 05:12 AM   #84
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Seems this issue is potentially produced by a certain manufacturer, if anything. If I remember correctly based on articles, I think there were three vendors that produce these displays, LG, Japan Display, and Sharp. So I would assume it is either Sharp or Japan Display since there have been little complaints in regard to this problem, including myself, and LG is most likely contributing most of the previous generation and current iMac screens. Also, it is unfortunate that Apple blocked the information when using the display command code, and the only way is to open the iMac.

I hope Apple sorts things right soon since I have already requested a replacement for cosmetic marks on my screen, backlight bleeding, and yellowish tints.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 10:18 AM   #85
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update on iMac #2

Thought it was time for another update

I have noticed a bit more retention on my second 27" iMac after about 5 days of use. I can't confirm that it has to do with disk usage but I'm still guessing it has to do with heat.

I have installed iStat Menus and have been keeping an eye on the temps... but I haven't totally correlated it to retention as I am busy during the day and tho I want to help Apple here, it isn't my "job"

istat shows temps are pretty consistent - ranging from about 110 f to 130f during the day.

I do still notice on this second machine some significant retention but it isn't as bad as the first machine I had.

My "solution" so far has been to set the display to shut off after 20 minutes but I have the screen saver kick in after only 2 minutes of non-use. This seems to clear out almost all retention for me if I happen to get up and leave my desk for a bit.

Obviously that isn't a perfect solution, but it may help some of you. It seemed to me that if I left the default at turning the screen off at 10 minutes (i think that is what it was) then the screen saver wasn't running long enough to remove the retention.

Hope that helps some.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
Can you see your dock icons when you look at iMovie or iPhoto full screen? That is my biggest problem right now. Both iMovie and iPhoto, which I like using full screen, are just the right shade of grey to show my browser outlines and dock icons.
On neither machine have I seen any issues with Dock Icons strangely enough. Tho I would have expected to see something there. I do not turn on hiding unless I want to check to see if the icons are burning in

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
It seems to me as if hard drive activity causes the retention to be much worse. That may be why it was worse for me on the first day. I was copying a lot of data off of external hard drives.

I'll be testing that theory tonight because I'm going to back up all of my data so that I can return the iMac to the Apple Store tomorrow morning. I won't be exchanging for another one, though. I'm picking up an external display and will get something else to last me until the Mac Pros are updated. I just don't have time to deal with this and don't care to play the good panel/bad panel lottery.
That would seem a bit strange to me - isn't the hard drive only in one small section of the iMac body and wouldn't the retention be stronger near that heat source?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 12:54 PM   #86
MaydayMAc
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ive been noticed my screen seems to be ghosting whats a good way to test? any program ?
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:19 PM   #87
planetMitch
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ive been noticed my screen seems to be ghosting whats a good way to test? any program ?
ever thought of reading the whole thread? there's plenty of discussion on how to test... look for 'grid'
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:37 PM   #88
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My "solution" so far has been to set the display to shut off after 20 minutes but I have the screen saver kick in after only 2 minutes of non-use. This seems to clear out almost all retention for me if I happen to get up and leave my desk for a bit.
Thanks for the update.

My retention seems to be semi-permanent. Even the oldest ghosting is still visible, though much dimmer. My desktop background is also being retained. My desktop picture is of a snowy mountain landscape, and since the snow is a bright white, I can see the outline of the landscape on a grey screen. It makes using any photo or video editing software with a grey background unusable, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetMitch View Post

On neither machine have I seen any issues with Dock Icons strangely enough. Tho I would have expected to see something there. I do not turn on hiding unless I want to check to see if the icons are burning in[COLOR="#808080"]
The ghosting of my dock icons even show color. And like the other retention, it has become semi-permanent. I can see multiples of dock icons due to opening up apps that aren't in my dock and that pushing existing icons to the side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetMitch View Post
That would seem a bit strange to me - isn't the hard drive only in one small section of the iMac body and wouldn't the retention be stronger near that heat source?
I backed up all of my files last night, and it didn't seem to affect the retention. I could try duplicating my first days activities, copying files from the external to the internal while downloading Guild Wars 2 just to see if I could make it worse, but just as you said, it isn't my job. Haha.

I didn't return the iMac this morning, as I had planned, because I need to get some things done with it this weekend before I go back to being without a computer temporarily. I did go to Best Buy today and test the 21-inch iMac. I didn't pull up the grid, but I did pull up the grid website to look at the grey screen, and I couldn't see any hints of retention. I also couldn't see any hints of retention on a 27-inch Apple Cinema Display. However, the Retina MacBook Pro on display looked exactly like my iMac. I could see where previous browser windows had been open on the screen.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 01:41 PM   #89
edry.hilario
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Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
Thanks for the update.

My retention seems to be semi-permanent. Even the oldest ghosting is still visible, though much dimmer. My desktop background is also being retained. My desktop picture is of a snowy mountain landscape, and since the snow is a bright white, I can see the outline of the landscape on a grey screen. It makes using any photo or video editing software with a grey background unusable, in my opinion.



The ghosting of my dock icons even show color. And like the other retention, it has become semi-permanent. I can see multiples of dock icons due to opening up apps that aren't in my dock and that pushing existing icons to the side.



I backed up all of my files last night, and it didn't seem to affect the retention. I could try duplicating my first days activities, copying files from the external to the internal while downloading Guild Wars 2 just to see if I could make it worse, but just as you said, it isn't my job. Haha.

I didn't return the iMac this morning, as I had planned, because I need to get some things done with it this weekend before I go back to being without a computer temporarily. I did go to Best Buy today and test the 21-inch iMac. I didn't pull up the grid, but I did pull up the grid website to look at the grey screen, and I couldn't see any hints of retention. I also couldn't see any hints of retention on a 27-inch Apple Cinema Display. However, the Retina MacBook Pro on display looked exactly like my iMac. I could see where previous browser windows had been open on the screen.
try to get a replacement. I put in an order for a replacement last week and the replacement shipped yesterday so, just give it a try.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 02:10 PM   #90
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try to get a replacement. I put in an order for a replacement last week and the replacement shipped yesterday so, just give it a try.
That's good that they are able to get a replacement out quickly. I've decided to wait for the Mac Pro to be updated and get something else to use in the interim. It's a beautiful computer and I like the way reflections were reduced in the display, and the lamination process makes it look better than the 27-inch Cinema Display, but I'm done with the all-in-one form factor. If I have a screen problem, I want to be able to swap out the display and not have to go through backing up and restoring the computer just to get a good display. Also, the fan is too loud when I'm playing games, and I find it very distracting.
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 02:57 PM   #91
edry.hilario
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That's good that they are able to get a replacement out quickly. I've decided to wait for the Mac Pro to be updated and get something else to use in the interim. It's a beautiful computer and I like the way reflections were reduced in the display, and the lamination process makes it look better than the 27-inch Cinema Display, but I'm done with the all-in-one form factor. If I have a screen problem, I want to be able to swap out the display and not have to go through backing up and restoring the computer just to get a good display. Also, the fan is too loud when I'm playing games, and I find it very distracting.
yeah but meanwhile you should get a replacement, you dont have to do anything its free and you hopefully eliminate some of the issues. plus if youre gonna sell it, itd have better resell value you know ..
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 03:02 PM   #92
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yeah but meanwhile you should get a replacement, you dont have to do anything its free and you hopefully eliminate some of the issues. plus if youre gonna sell it, itd have better resell value you know ..
I returned it because I don't have the time to deal with problems like this, and it is widespread enough that I don't trust a replacement to not have the same problem. Besides that I'm just not happy with the all-in-one form any more.

I was happy with the speed of my last iMac. All I wanted was a bigger screen, an SSD, and a better GPU. I'm tired of having to replace the entire computer just for things that can easily be replaced in a tower. I'm back on a Dell for now. I can do my Premiere work on it just as easily as an iMac.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 03:34 PM   #93
drxcm
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Interestingly I ran the 15minute grid test after a cold start - no retention at all.
But when I am working with big files for an extended duration it easily shows up after a couple of minutes.

I'm surprised more people haven't posted in this thread... I'm convinced my replacement will have the same problem - don't think it is a faulty panel, just the nature of the panel.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:29 PM   #94
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Can you define some steps to reproduce. I've yet to see any retention on my iMac.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:45 PM   #95
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all Apple IPS displays that I've dealt with had some image retention.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 04:52 PM   #96
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Can you define some steps to reproduce. I've yet to see any retention on my iMac.
i wasn't looking for it when I first saw it. I had just closed the Guild Wars 2 installer and could still see the ghost of the window on the desktop. That is the picture I posted in the first post.

If you want to test your display, you can keep a pattern on the screen for 3 to 10 minutes and then click "switch to grey" and see if you can see where the pattern was.

On mine, on a solid grey screen I could see my previous browser windows and dock icons. If after 10 minutes you don't see any remnants of the grid pattern on a grey screen, then your panel is good and doesn't have the problem.

http://www.marco.org/rmbp-irtest.html

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all Apple IPS displays that I've dealt with had some image retention.
In the last five years I've owned a 2009 27-inch iMac, a 2011 21.5-inch iMac, and a 2010 27-inch Cinema Display, and none of them had any image retention at all. Before that I had a 2004 23-inch Cinema Display and a 2008 24-inch iMac that both had horrible image retention. Maybe it's just a lottery and you have to exchange until you get one that doesn't do it. I'm on an IPS Dell right now that doesn't have any retention at all. I left the grid up for an hour trying to see if it would do it, and it has no signs of retention.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:04 PM   #97
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Ok, copied over 20GB, had 3 1080p movies playing, with marco's retention test open. No retention.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:09 PM   #98
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I have seen zero image retention on my 2012 27" iMac. That said, the IPS panels in these new iMacs are just not even in the same league as the ones from 2009 27" iMacs. The viewing angles are just awful, the washout in blacks is simply APPALLING, and the general viewing angles aren't much better. If I move to the right of the screen, the left turns "yellower." This was never an issue on my last iMac.

Not sure what's going on here, but while I do like the new fused display and the other improvements in power etc, the IPS panel is just not what I would have come to expect from Apple.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 08:59 PM   #99
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I have seen zero image retention on my 2012 27" iMac. That said, the IPS panels in these new iMacs are just not even in the same league as the ones from 2009 27" iMacs. The viewing angles are just awful, the washout in blacks is simply APPALLING, and the general viewing angles aren't much better. If I move to the right of the screen, the left turns "yellower." This was never an issue on my last iMac.

Not sure what's going on here, but while I do like the new fused display and the other improvements in power etc, the IPS panel is just not what I would have come to expect from Apple.
Im not 100% sure but i think they are the EXACT same panel, perhaps you have a bad unit.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:30 AM   #100
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Im not 100% sure but i think they are the EXACT same panel, perhaps you have a bad unit.
I would be willing to bet they're not the exact same panel, and if they are, something with the fused display is causing these panels to have some less-than-stellar problems.

And fyi, I noticed the orange/yellow color-cast (especially on whites) at off angles on my retina-display MacBook Pro 13". I seriously think these IPS panels have been downgraded somewhere, intentionally or otherwise.
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