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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:24 PM   #226
Liberty.
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While I use my jailbreak only for tweaks like FolderEnhancer and IntelliScreenX there are already several superior Installous-alternatives available. They don't even depend on a jailbreak.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:40 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by adildacoolset View Post
Yesterday, despite my interjection, I witnessed a crime beneath my eyes. One of my family members was downloading a pirated game on android.

I've seen innocent people, harmless people, good people who resort to stealing their software. It's just sad.
Therein lies the crux of the problem. Can you name another law that innocent harmless good people break? Think for a long time before you answer
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:43 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by blueroom View Post
I never understood the kiddies who could afford an iPhone but couldn't afford $1 apps. Guess they'll flock to Android and crush that platforms app programmers.

Good news for developers.
Has nothing to do with android but people who feel entitled to everything without working and paying their own way. Like a 5 dollar app is even remotely expensive!
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:49 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
How many thousands of dollars and man-hours were ruined by people like your relative? It's no better than people related to a mugger on the news talking about what a good boy the perp is.
Using software without paying and mugging a person is not the same
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:04 PM   #230
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I love how they release a statement as if they were a legitimate company with staff who make an honest product. Since when did pirating become a legitimate business? This is about as legitimate as Captain Jack Sparrow having a good health plan with dental coverage.

Piracy is evil and theft and no different then walking into a store and walking out with merchandize without paying for it. This is shop lifting 101. The only difference is the risk factor since pirating software can be done from the living room without alarms and security guards. I await the day when cyber police can freeze bank accounts when people are caught pirating software. There needs to be some level of realistic punishment and consequences to deter this sort of thing.

Like others have said what is wrong with people that cannot afford a $1.00 app? This is not 3D software that costs $4,000.00 and is out of reach of those who think they are budding artists but a $1.00 app. Clear 100% selfishness and no regard for society.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:11 PM   #231
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I've never even considered jailbraking or pirating on iOS. The platform/store is super convenient and 9 out of 10 apps are priced very fair (or below).

The model/pricing ought to be the best anti-piracy measure ever concieved.

I wonder how big a problem piracy really is on iOS. Any 'verified' numbers? I know a lot of people with iPhones and iPads - not a single one is an iOS pirate - even when most of them have illegal mp3s, movies and some software on their pcs/macs.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:17 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by econgeek View Post
Snip
The one thing that interests me most here is now such a small percentage of the overall user base could make such a huge impact in sales. Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt your story for a second. I just think it's weird.

I can't recall where I read it, but I remember seeing that jailbroken iOS devices make up, maybe, about 10% of all iPhones and iPads out in the wild. That's fairly tiny. 10 million people have the ability to pirate apps for every 90 million who can't. What's scary is how such a relatively small demographic can mess everything up to such a degree.

The only thing I can figure out from it all is that there aren't actually as many legitimate customers buying apps in the app store as we like to believe. Or in other words, your average Apple customer doesn't download all that many apps. This is in comparison to the more tech savvy jailbreak crowd who uses their iPhones more, and downloads a helluva lot more than mom 'n pop.

There's so many different ways I can take all this information, but the real question that lies at the bottom of it all is...

...were those pirated copies actual lost sales, or someone downloading your app just because they could. Do you really believe that there are pirates out there with jailbroken iPhones who would've otherwise bought your app if it never showed up on the warez sites, or were they just never going to get it if they couldn't get it for free?

Yeah, it sucks when someone uses the program you spent a lot of blood, sweat, and tears making without paying you for the privilege, but there's nothing you can do about it. Pirates will always pirate as long as they have a way to pirate. I wouldn't count it as a lost sale, because I seriously think they never would've bought in the first place. They're freeloading moochers doing what they do.

But the one what I can't figure out is how such a small amount of people affected you so negatively and totally. You should've still been getting sales regardless.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:24 PM   #233
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I have to spend around 50 bucks, just to get a "perfect" todo list. Try new apps, not suitable for my needs, delete it, and try another one, etc etc.. Not all application give their "lite" version for us to try.

If Apple could give trial period for 5 days for any application then no need to spend that much money just for todo list. This is real and happened to me.

Another reason. Sometimes, new version is not the good one. Instapaper for example. Few version back, the software allow us to search the article right on the instapaper-form, directly in the device with free. After updates, they don't allow us. I finally subscribed their service because I need search capability, and really disappointed found out that the search is only for the link, not the converted article format. This is very different because many of links has been dead now. So, rolling back to the old version is unavoidable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiswritsat View Post
I've used installous but only one games. I'm not going to buy a $6.99 game and find out I hate it. If I like it then I go to the apple store and purchase it legally. I wish apple gave you the ability to try out games and apps before purchase because the reviews people leave aren't always accurate at all.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:27 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by newagemac View Post
You work at a job I suppose? Should they get to try you out before hiring you without you agreeing upon those terms? There is always a risk that an exchange of goods, services, and money will not work out. Unless both sides agree to it, that doesn't mean you should have to work for free and hiring managers should have the luxury of just "trying out" tons of people, not paying them, and getting essentially free slave labor until they decide on someone they "like" and then even paying that person when they decide to pay them.

Because that's essentially what you're doing with developers. You're settting multiple "terms" that the other side has not agreed upon and using their goods or services anyway. It's not fair, moral, or ethical at all.

The bottom line really is the developer can set whatever terms they like. You aren't forced to play the game so if you don't like the terms just don't attempt to play the game at all. It's as simple as that. It's not like its health care, water, gas, or anything essential for life. It's a video game! If you don't agree with the terms of the offering and use it anyway that's exhibiting poor personal moral character. You can call it piracy, theft, stealing, rape, or whatever name you want to call it. It still puts you on the same bottom of the barrel moral level of a common thief, selfish liar, and cheat.


P.S. - I'm not referring to any particular person. Just the idea as quoted which gets thrown around often by kids giving excuses on why they do it. Also, people do bad moral things and show a lack of character many times throughout their lives. But the difference between good morals and bad morals is recognizing when you do wrong and striving to correct it rather than making excuses for your intent to continue it.

P.P.S - If this post kinda stings, good because that means you're likely a generally good person, can recognize when you're doing something you shouldn't, and still have the ability to correct it.
It doesn't sting because I take what you say with no weight. Your just a guy behind a computer or phone voicing your opinion. You can try to type a book on why it's wrong and try to sound so perfect but the fact of the matter is I like to try things out before buying. I test drove my BMW, I went to my kids private school before enrolling them, thats just me, morally wrong etc etc etc then sue me. I see your point of view but the reason why your so butt hurt over it, I don't seem to understand. I respect your opinion and ill just respectfully agree to disagree.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:37 PM   #235
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Happy to Pay for well made apps but far and few between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icculus View Post
Hackulous...you will not be missed.

Pay the developers for the apps you use.
In all seriousness, 85% of the apps available on the app store are pure garbage and a poorly designed. Frequently used Installous to test out apps, and for those that were well made and designed I was happy to go to the app store and pay for them regardless of their price. As more and more developers incorporate in app purchases into their apps the number of crappy apps is rapidly rising. I have grown up here Los Altos Ca. just a stone throw away from Apple central and have known many people who work in various positions throughout the company, and more than a couple agree that the vast majority of apps carried in the app store are pure crap.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 08:07 PM   #236
ChristIsLORD
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I can guarantee that 100% of the people who use pirated apps for "trial" purposes that then pay for the same app afterword are utter liars. This is just an excuse for piracy and utter cowardly behavior. Just admit that you steal without remorse you thieves.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 08:26 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by cclloyd9785 View Post
And the difference between someone robbing your house and pirating digital content is that you still have the digital content afterwards. If someone stole my TV I have to go buy a new TV whereas if I make software and someone pirates it, 3 seconds later someone may buy it and I still made money; Now I have 2 happy people who will spread my software via word of mouth.
No, because if you didn't pirate the app, in many cases, you would have bought it. This doesn't apply as much to Mac apps, but it does a lot to iOS apps. I understand the potential advantage of having your app stolen. People who wouldn't have bought it anyway pirate it and increase publicity. This happens more with Photoshop than $1-$5 iOS apps.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 08:33 PM   #238
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No excuse for apple to not have trials on apps now
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 08:40 PM   #239
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Sigh....

I'm probably in the minority around here, if the first few pages of posts I read is any indicator.

But here's my take on things:

Hackulous going away? Well, it is what it is. If the operators got bored with it, or too many people just used the Installous app all the time without ever visiting the forums to discuss it, or whatever the situation? Ok - fine. They certainly don't owe it to anyone to keep it running.

But I actually did use Installous for a brief period of time on my first iPad. I'd counter that just as the article asserts there is "no shortage of people interested in cheating developers out of their fees"? There's never been a shortage of commercial iOS apps that are overpriced, and/or too difficult to fully evaluate before buying, and/or designed to cheat USERS out of their money with ridiculous in-app purchase demands or requirements of re-buying newer releases of the same software.

As I've *always* maintained when it comes to entertainment purchases of intangibles like music, movies, video games, etc. -- each individual only has a certain portion of their budget or income they can realistically devote to such things. If they opt to buy a few new books, or a magazine subscription one month, that means they may not have any more disposable income for an iOS app that time around. And if they buy a few iOS games the next month, then they may not have the money for a new Playstation 3 title they want to check out, or ??

Given that's the reality of the marketplace, developers should just get over concerns about "piracy", period. When you release something, you're immediately competing with ALL other forms of intellectual property sold as entertainment out there. A certain percentage will pay you and the rest will vote with their wallets for something else. That's the nature of the whole business. Whether or not someone downloads some of your material who didn't pay is irrelevant in the big picture. You wouldn't see a penny more of revenue if you could deny them the ability to do that! They spent what they were willing to spend on entertainment elsewhere already, and apparently YOUR product wasn't so outstandingly good it made them pay you instead to get it as quickly and easily as possible.

In fact, what we know happens is the reverse! The harder a developer tries to prevent some software from getting used without paying, the more inconvenient they make the software for a paying customer. (Think of DRM on iTunes music and how much that sucked compared to an unprotected MP3 that you could just play anywhere.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysods View Post
Piracy makes me mad. I'm glad these guys shut down.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 08:52 PM   #240
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Umm, can you prove this?!

This is *always* the defense used by the anti-piracy crowd. Hasn't changed in at least a decade. But I really question it.

First of all, how do you come up with evidence or proof that people "would have bought" an app if they couldn't pirate it?

From everything I've ever seen, the biggest "pirates" tend to be younger people ... kids who don't even have a job yet, or who work in a near minimum wage job and simply can't afford to buy a lot of the games out there they have at least a passing interest in playing for a little while.

Everyone else I know (heck, including myself in this!) occasionally gets a pirated copy of something, but pays for plenty of other similar material too. Even if I get a free copy of some great new game I really enjoy -- that's something I had no way of KNOWING would be the case before I installed it. So no, I might have passed it over - not realizing how much I would have liked it. And by the same token, if i had a spare $50 for a new game title (or spare $9.95 for an iOS game title or what-not), I'm sure I'd find something that sounded good that I'd spend it on. So *someone* out there got my money for their work. That's really all you can ask for, IMO ....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morshu9001 View Post
No, because if you didn't pirate the app, in many cases, you would have bought it. This doesn't apply as much to Mac apps, but it does a lot to iOS apps. I understand the potential advantage of having your app stolen. People who wouldn't have bought it anyway pirate it and increase publicity. This happens more with Photoshop than $1-$5 iOS apps.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 09:11 PM   #241
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eep...

Convenience vs Security ...

Its more convenient to pirate, than to buy.. but if people make good games, they deserve to be paid.

If people an' even afford a mere $9, then why do they have a computer ?

I pirated Adobe stuff, but if i like it, i'll either crack it (knowing the risks), or buy something thats better.

All these "so called" protection stuff thats is place,, everybody thinks its due to prevent people and to buy stuff, but guess what...... it does exactly the opposite.... if you can't do something due to "Apple's way" or anything, and people really want it....... They are gonna pirate..... (Watches it go up and up)

Having said that, i have always bought apps from the app store.... WHy would i pirate them, i can afford them. Thats probably the question right there.

On the flip side, installing hackable apps are useful for those people that wanna install and can't afford anyway (shrugs) ... It goes both ways.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 09:22 PM   #242
nStyle
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I honestly never got into pirating iOS apps. Sure, I installed Installous and DID use it, but I wasn't one to download 50 apps a day just for the sake of it.

All anyone needs is a few good games and some productivity apps. Apart from that, many of the BEST, most used apps, and useful apps, are free anyway.

Plus, nowadays I enjoy having everything sync up nicely when I change devices.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 09:52 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Morshu9001 View Post
No, because if you didn't pirate the app, in many cases, you would have bought it. This doesn't apply as much to Mac apps, but it does a lot to iOS apps. I understand the potential advantage of having your app stolen. People who wouldn't have bought it anyway pirate it and increase publicity. This happens more with Photoshop than $1-$5 iOS apps.
I would have just tried a free alternative. Therefore the developer just lost money and fame.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 09:54 PM   #244
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Rip.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 10:23 PM   #245
5imo
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Originally Posted by OrangeSVTguy View Post
I don't really see the point in jailbreaking anymore. The iPhones can be basically used on any carrier anymore without the need to jailbreak to unlock it. We can change our own wallpapers now and can multitask. Just wish there were a legitimate way to "hide" apps that are never used, AKA half the Apple ones that can't be deleted. iOS just keeps adding more and more features that everybody wants. Only thing I miss is my tether and a few tweeks and SBSettings.
Still as allways the function of jailbreaking is to add greater customization & to plug holes in the iOS feature set whether it was tethering, multitasking or unlocking. The holes still exist, how ever fewer there may be. A couple glaring ones still exist: You can't change the default browser or mail client, Safari's newer rendering engine not available to 3rd party apps, no settings toggles in notification center.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 10:50 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by freeskier989 View Post
Of course i don't. But i was making an example of all your preachers on here, telling the world how things should be. Look if you don't agree with something, thats fine. But to sit here and condem people as immoral, unethical, horrendous individuals for a choice they made or make, well you know the saying "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone..."

I do not need a bunch of self-righteous people telling me what is right and wrong, what i can and cannot do, just like i don't need a fairy-tail (called religion aka the magic man in the sky) to tell me what is right and wrong.

EDIT - And i have not seen one response that stated "I dont agree but thats your decision to make, you have to live by the consequences of your own actions." That would have been an appropriate, respected response.
If you're a thief, as you've admitted to being, you don't deserve a respected response.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 11:25 PM   #247
Xgm541
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Originally Posted by ECUpirate44 View Post
Perhaps you should change your approach then? I always report a problem with an app that does not meet my expectations and Apple promptly refunds my PayPal account.
From what I've read a while back, there is a limited amount of times you can request a refund.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 11:40 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KylePowers View Post
Not that there were many (if any) moral uses for Installous, but the idea of trying an app before you buy it would be a great feature for the App Store. Like a one hour or one day trial period.

Yes, many developers have free versions, but many don't. Just an idea
I'm fairly certain that in Apple's long list of rules, they forbid having apps with trial offers.

I agree that it would be nice if Apple allowed something like this. I'm thinking a strategy I'll be using going forward is putting ads in extremely inconvenient spots... IE, I'll put them under the keyboard, so the user understands that the app works and how it works, but the ad is in an annoying enough spot to make it worth their while to remove. I'll see how well that works...
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:15 AM   #249
Stonedcold
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I agree this app don't belong in the jailbreak community. However almost everything gets replaced, evolved and the new replaces the old. No doubt there are probably many other apps that will step up to fill this void. As it is very easy to become famous or infamous in catering to this type of activity.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:16 AM   #250
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well I think that this might be a great idea ^
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