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Old Jan 1, 2013, 08:16 AM   #126
Bartman01
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I always love these kinds of posts, full of 'experts' who think there is only one right way to do anything. For me, BluRay wins hands down for the highest quality/portability/transferability because those things are important to me. That does not mean that those who prefer iTunes are wrong, just that they have different priorities/needs.

Purchased via pre-order through Amazon, shows up on my doorstep on release day - can't get much lower hassle than that. If I am going to actually buy a movie, I want the highest quality version possible and in a version that is DRM free or can easily be made so.

As to price, 19.99 seems a bit steep for an iTunes quality copy with DRM. Mine was 18.99.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:59 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
The other two Dark Knight films do show the IMAX scenes in the proper aspect ratio - you must be watching the HD version though SD versions won't show IMAX scenes as IMAX
The two other The Dark Knight films do show them in IMAX ratio for the IMAX scenes, the HD version of The Dark Knight Rises does not in HD, haven't check for SD but I doubt it.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 06:38 AM   #128
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In the iTunes version, there's no IMAX scenes.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 04:14 PM   #129
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I got the iTunes version as I have been for all of my movie purchases since getting a couple Apple TV's (not to mention all of the iOS devices we have in our family) but I was HIGHLY disappointed to find that the iTunes version has all of the IMAX scenes CROPPED! WTF is up with that? I loved the way we got "full screen" IMAX in The Dark Knight and was completely expecting it for TDKR, so to NOT get it, while Blu-Ray does is shocking to me. Anyone else annoyed by this? I've tried reporting a problem to iTunes about this, but never got any response. Perhaps more people need to report a problem and maybe they'll fix this aweful mistake they made when ripping the movie for digital distribution.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 04:45 PM   #130
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I got the box set on Blu-Ray, and gave my BD copies of Begins and Dark Knight to my dad, and he got Rises on iTunes.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:25 PM   #131
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I got the iTunes version as I have been for all of my movie purchases since getting a couple Apple TV's (not to mention all of the iOS devices we have in our family) but I was HIGHLY disappointed to find that the iTunes version has all of the IMAX scenes CROPPED! WTF is up with that? I loved the way we got "full screen" IMAX in The Dark Knight and was completely expecting it for TDKR, so to NOT get it, while Blu-Ray does is shocking to me. Anyone else annoyed by this? I've tried reporting a problem to iTunes about this, but never got any response. Perhaps more people need to report a problem and maybe they'll fix this aweful mistake they made when ripping the movie for digital distribution.
Yes. Terrible. Were the IMAX scenes included within the iTunes copy of Dark Knight?
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:46 PM   #132
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My bluray set finally arrived. There are just some things you have to have on disc, this is one of those things. Along with Star Wars, Superman, and Harry Potter!
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 10:41 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Omne666 View Post
So let's summarise...

Option 1
Buy from iTunes, wait a few minutes, press play.

Option 2
Buy BR (from store or online) wait for delivery or trip home, RIP it to mkv, have plex on the system or jail broken ATV2, press play.

Option 3
Buy BR (from store or online) wait for delivery, RIP it to mkv, handbrake it, press play.

Gee...I wonder which is easier?

I understand we have audiophiles here, old school own the disc people, potential licence issues down the track with pure digital files, but aren't we forgetting something?

Apples mantra " it just works"?

Apples all ways been about ease of use, ease of access, just plain ease. Perfect no, but always getting better.

I don't own a B&O for sound, my TV isn't a $20k vision nirvana device. Unless they are, your not getting the full benefits of everything by goingi BR then ripping, no matter how good the rip. My wife doesn't sit there and go 'wish we had dts or a better tv'.

Ease of use and an enjoyable experience.

With the iTunes store and an ATV, Apple delivers.

Sorry people, but I just can't see myself fretting over how good my RIPs are, or which jail brake is the best. I just want to watch the movie.As long as these days it's HD, I'm reasonably happy. I use to be happy with DVDs.

Buy the thing through iTunes, and enjoy the experience! If you watch it 2 times or more, your ahead of the game.
You forgot one... Insert Blu-Ray into player and enjoy best video and audio quality. Play on portable bluray player for kids that can't handle an ipad, etc etc. rip if you want, or don't.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:16 AM   #134
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You forgot one... Insert Blu-Ray into player and enjoy best video and audio quality. Play on portable bluray player for kids that can't handle an ipad, etc etc. rip if you want, or don't.
So True!

so...


Option 4
Buy BR (from store or online) wait for delivery or drive home (whatever mode of transport you want), insert disc, press play, sit back and enjoy.

(meanwhile, I'm onto my second movie that I purchased via the iTunes store, 6th beer or 3rd scotch, OR, I'm heading off to bed cause its like 1am and I'm contented after watching the movie.)


People, I'm just pointing out ease of convenience, not the ultimate solution.

The other forum I'm poking is the 16:9 cropping versus having black bars shown on the TV.

Its all about options, convenience, and having a great discussion. Ultimately, we all do what we each want to. For me, convenience first, but I do have a mixed library on my system of DVD rips, BR rips, and iTunes purchases. But I can honestly say, there is no longer a DVD/BR/HTPC drive in my living room. I committed to this path some time ago.

And if I was a fanatic about it, I'd dump my stored library and live off the cloud and my iTunes purchases. But lets not get to silly shall we!!
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:46 AM   #135
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I just "acquire" the bluray 1080p "rip", run it through subler and drop it into iTunes, which means i can watch it on my imac/macbookpro/ipad, and also copy it to my Galaxy Note 2 and have a decent sized screen while out and about with a device that still fits into my pocket , when i want to watch it on the TV downstairs i put the BluRay itself into my PS3,

i am hating the Ultraviolet thingy, i now actively avoid buying movies with it on the box, ill wait for the re-release/bargain binning of those movies and pick them up for 2-3 pounds rather than spend close to 20, if it says iTunes version included however i buy on day of release.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 10:36 PM   #136
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I love iTunes movies, but bluray is Best in quality, i got both versions and the big difference is the lack of IMAX scenes in the iTunes version!!!
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 10:47 PM   #137
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The itunes version doesn't even come close to the Blu-ray in quality, and to boot it is overpriced.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:15 PM   #138
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Just received my blu-ray for this movie last night. Only had time to watch the first 45 minutes of it, but I noticed that roughly half of that time was in the full-screen IMAX format! Definitely nice to have it filling up my 16:9 screen!

Why don't they just film all movies like that? People are watching so many more movies on their home screens, all of which have 16:9 ratios.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:43 PM   #139
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Just received my blu-ray for this movie last night. Only had time to watch the first 45 minutes of it, but I noticed that roughly half of that time was in the full-screen IMAX format! Definitely nice to have it filling up my 16:9 screen!

Why don't they just film all movies like that? People are watching so many more movies on their home screens, all of which have 16:9 ratios.
Movies used to be shot in 4:3. Then TV came along, and they had to go to colour, and then extra wide, and then multi-channel sound...all to stay ahead of the convenience of watching movies at home - where they can't gouge you $10 for $1's worth of soda and popcorn.

They will never make movies in a format that convenient to watch at home...until theater-going drops to the point that it makes it a better economic model.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:03 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
The thing about iTunes is that the video gets better over time originally 720p now 1080p - no new purchase required.


Whose to say that iTunes won't upgrade our content to 4k or 8k in a few years when bandwitch allows for it - there is endless potential in a digital file versus physical discs.
Well - that is a good point. Could be that iTunes does increase the quality again. On the other hand physical media has a lot of benefits as well. In particular you can hand around BD or DVD discs for friends and family to watch. But there are pros and cons to everything.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:19 AM   #141
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Well - that is a good point. Could be that iTunes does increase the quality again. On the other hand physical media has a lot of benefits as well. In particular you can hand around BD or DVD discs for friends and family to watch. But there are pros and cons to everything.
4K is largely pointless at home unless you're sitting 100 feet away looking at a 50 foot screen.... and the bandwidth requirements for streaming are hugely impractical.... hundreds of gigabytes for a highly compressed format.... 10-15 terabytes for an uncompressed format.

Once an image exceeds the 300dpi threshold (relative to distance from the viewing plane), your eyes cannot distinguish the difference.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:22 AM   #142
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Just as there is a difference in 1080p between BluRay and iTunes there will most likely be a similar way to deliver 4k over the Internet without being as large as we all think it will be. I use a projector and would love to upgrade to a 4k projector one day. People thought that delivering HD over the internet would be impossible just a few years ago - same sentiments are around today for 4k ... not sure why people are so down on 4k - the future is out there
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:34 AM   #143
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Just as there is a difference in 1080p between BluRay and iTunes there will most likely be a similar way to deliver 4k over the Internet without being as large as we all think it will be. I use a projector and would love to upgrade to a 4k projector one day. People thought that delivering HD over the internet would be impossible just a few years ago - same sentiments are around today for 4k ... not sure why people are so down on 4k - the future is out there
Yes, the compromise is quality.... then what's the point. If the reason people advocate BluRay is because you can see things like film grain that you CANNOT see in a highly compressed iTunes 1080p stream, those purists (I'm not one of them, except where truly artistic films are concerned... and then nothing beats 35mm)... but 4k is such a HUGE format that the benefits of it are outweighed by the file constraints, and the larger you go, while broadband is still not advancing fast enough and processor speeds are stagnating... you're going to have to sacrifice most of the benefits of that 4k image just to cram it down a manageable pipe.

Even right now there's no practical solution for subscription cable or satellite to stream compressed 1080p programming on multiple channels.... so it's all 720p/1080i.

But none of that matters because you still can't get around the reality of the human eye. Trying to argue that someone can see detail better than 300dpi is like saying that humans can see four primary colors including the ultraviolet spectrum. Sorry, not true.... human perception isn't going to exceed that limit.

Many films these days are shot so poorly as it is... and classics, well, while I've advocated the move to digital for the sake of preservation, what I did not expect is the way digital would create a world of new artists who have never had to really master the art of controlling light.... which is what film requires. You can't push a button and record 35mm, so it takes some technical skill. This is vanishing.... and it doesn't matter what format you watch crap in. Garbage in, garbage out.

I have to give directors like Tarantino a lot of credit for sticking to their guns and refusing to go digital.
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Last edited by Avatar74; Jan 14, 2013 at 11:49 AM.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:31 PM   #144
jakeOSX
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Originally Posted by Omne666 View Post
So let's summarise...

Option 1
Buy from iTunes, wait a few minutes, press play.

Option 2
Buy BR (from store or online) wait for delivery or trip home, RIP it to mkv, have plex on the system or jail broken ATV2, press play.

Option 3
Buy BR (from store or online) wait for delivery, RIP it to mkv, handbrake it, press play.

Gee...I wonder which is easier?

I understand we have audiophiles here, old school own the disc people, potential licence issues down the track with pure digital files, but aren't we forgetting something?

Apples mantra " it just works"?

Apples all ways been about ease of use, ease of access, just plain ease. Perfect no, but always getting better.

I don't own a B&O for sound, my TV isn't a $20k vision nirvana device. Unless they are, your not getting the full benefits of everything by goingi BR then ripping, no matter how good the rip. My wife doesn't sit there and go 'wish we had dts or a better tv'.

Ease of use and an enjoyable experience.

With the iTunes store and an ATV, Apple delivers.

Sorry people, but I just can't see myself fretting over how good my RIPs are, or which jail brake is the best. I just want to watch the movie.As long as these days it's HD, I'm reasonably happy. I use to be happy with DVDs.

Buy the thing through iTunes, and enjoy the experience! If you watch it 2 times or more, your ahead of the game.
?

option 4, buy BR, put it in player, hit play (not sure why this was left out...)

option 5, wait. just wait. it will come on tv or netflix. or not.

i am on option 5 with most of my entertainment right now. for the cost of seeing a movie, i can stream from netflix for an entire month. i don't see the reason to rush anymore. rushing was costing me too much money.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:14 PM   #145
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Actually, I bought both, as I do for nearly all new movies that I'd like to own. New BR movies are typically available at my local Target for about $15 or $16 during the first week of release; with the $20 iTunes HD version, my total cost is under $40, and is the most convenient solution for me (and is considerably less expensive than taking my entire family to the movie theater). This allows my kids to watch movies on our iPads or on the television in our family room, which is in a built-in, over-the-fireplace cabinet that doesn't have enough room for a Blu-ray player, but does have room for an Apple TV. We can still watch the Blu-ray on the big TV/home theater system downstairs, but most of the time, they'd rather watch something in the family room.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:13 PM   #146
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Well, imo its worth noting that when the studios go to master a Blu ray ... they know they have some 40 GB of optical media space to work with. Therefore there is no incentive/need to use slower encoding options etc. that can crunch it down much further. That is their target size. Anything smaller makes no difference since the media dictates the size. That said for streaming content as per iTunes ... the pipe as noted and therefore file size is a concern. The trick of course is to lose quality (you always will) where the human eye is much less likely to perceive it. So, I would suggest that the main thing is human perceptual visual quality. And no for the record the iTunes HD stuff is not ripped from a blu ray with HB or anything else like you might do on your own, which is why the quality is gonna be better than what you can do at a lower files size/bitrate when you rip a blu ray on your own.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:24 PM   #147
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Exactly - if you are working with the 500GB master file or whatever it is - you can do a heck of a lot better with quality at lower file sizes.

They also have access to encoding tools that do a much better job than what is available to consumers.

It's the same reason a DVD rip may end up the same size as an HD version of the same movie in iTunes.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:56 PM   #148
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They also have access to encoding tools that do a much better job than what is available to consumers.
I will agree to the rest but tbh, not so sure they have any better encoder than x264. For video quality its right up there with the best, if not better.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:56 PM   #149
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Exactly - if you are working with the 500GB master file or whatever it is - you can do a heck of a lot better with quality at lower file sizes.

They also have access to encoding tools that do a much better job than what is available to consumers.

It's the same reason a DVD rip may end up the same size as an HD version of the same movie in iTunes.
You guys understand that both BluRay and iTunes use the same standard for video compression, MPEG-4 AVC Part 10 (aka H.264), but they use different profiles within that schema... right?

So, it's not like there's a magical third codec out there at this time that will produce higher quality at a lower bitrate. It's not analogous to how AAC differs from Mp3.... you're not comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing a bigger apple to a smaller apple... and no better fruit is available.

The reason iTunes can do in 5GB what BluRay takes up 25-50GB to do is, barring the extra content and audio streams, BluRay uses less lossy profile settings than iTunes does... iTunes is NOT using an improved/different codec.

SMPTE and MPEG could develop a standard for compressed UHD but it would have to differ from MPEG-4 AVC in some drastic ways that don't exist yet. Right now, Sony has come up with some kind of proprietary media player that can run a very limited number of programs at a time because of their humongous size, and they cannot be streamed.

You're talking about a whole other paradigm of compression, and even still.... the lossiest compression streams for UHD today take the 24Gbps bitstream down to 250Mbps.... Know anyone with a 250Mbps connection in the home? High Profile and Main Profile AVC MPEG-4 can pass near flawless HDTV at half that bitrate.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:01 PM   #150
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You guys understand that both BluRay and iTunes use the same standard for video compression, MPEG-4 AVC Part 10 (aka H.264), but they use different profiles within that schema... right?
Yeah, I am fairly familiar with it. That said my point was only that you *can* compress a video down to a much smaller size than blu ray if you need to given the same source. It will take *much* longer to encode but it can be done within the limits of reason.
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