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Old Jan 1, 2013, 09:50 AM   #276
MarximusMG
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Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I'm betting that Apple bought them out. So your forums are a ghost town, you don't have much site activity - so what? That doesn't necessitate shutting down the entire operation. It definitely seems like they were given some sort of offer in exchange for their cooperation.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 09:54 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Paradoxally View Post
Identity theft has nothing to do with piracy, please do not go offtopic.

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That's why I've recently ditched iTunes, and went to Spotify. I can listen to music anytime I want, anywhere I want (if premium, if not I just listen on the desktop), and I just have to put up with ads once in a while. Not too bad. BUT I get to listen to the full album without having to pirate anything.

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Didn't steal it. Stealing implies the rightful owner had something. For people to be able to pirate your app, either:

1. Someone had to buy the app and crack it and distribute it.
2. I had to buy it and crack it and give to whoever I wanted for free.

In either way, it's not stealing because it implies that somebody already paid for the app. You could say it's circumvention of copy protection, that I would agree. But theft, no sir. Did you lose out on sales? Yes, but you can't pull out the theft card for something to which you have never had (money from people who download pirate apps).
That is one bizzare argument. Software are priced on a per copy basis. You only own the licensing to use it for yourselves (check your licensing agreement printed on each boxes) not making massive copies for everyone else. It is like you paid for one hour session of a massage and claim that everyone of your friend has the right to an hours of massage because you pay for the first one. And I can go to my favorite pizza store, pay for one pizza and I should have free pizza for life. And your boss pay for one hour of your work and you should work for free for him the rest of your life.. I am sure it works great if you are at the receiving end and you will change your tune real quick. 8-)
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 10:04 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by 92jlee View Post
That's a shame, was a great way to get emulators on my 3gs years ago. Have a couple of cracked apps on my Android now and a couple I've paid for.. Doesn't matter, there will always be a way for the people who don't want to pay, you can't stop that.
May be not completely but Apple and for that matter any vendor can make it really hard to crack the OS. They can started by adding a locked ROM to protect the boot up process and make it very hard to jailbreak a device. And software developers can go to a model when an access to a server is necessary for the code to function. They can also disable the software if let's say more than 100 copies of them try to update to the same level. They probably won't stop everyone who want to pirate a software, but the industry can definitely make it very hard for the novice (which is majority of the free-riders). It is costly for the developers and manufacturer to develop all these measures but if they are not serious about protecting the IP, they are as much at fault as the thief themselves.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 10:33 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradoxally View Post
Identity theft has nothing to do with piracy, please do not go offtopic.

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That's why I've recently ditched iTunes, and went to Spotify. I can listen to music anytime I want, anywhere I want (if premium, if not I just listen on the desktop), and I just have to put up with ads once in a while. Not too bad. BUT I get to listen to the full album without having to pirate anything.

----------



Didn't steal it. Stealing implies the rightful owner had something. For people to be able to pirate your app, either:

1. Someone had to buy the app and crack it and distribute it.
2. I had to buy it and crack it and give to whoever I wanted for free.

In either way, it's not stealing because it implies that somebody already paid for the app. You could say it's circumvention of copy protection, that I would agree. But theft, no sir. Did you lose out on sales? Yes, but you can't pull out the theft card for something to which you have never had (money from people who download pirate apps).
What do you do for a living?
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:00 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by freeskier989 View Post
Thief by whose standards? Yours? America but not Europe? Really, grow up.
Exactly
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:00 PM   #281
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The appsync extension is still widely available on the web, so this 'news' doesn't really change anything besides generate headlines.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:03 PM   #282
Eiswritsat
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So funny how everyone can point fingers at each other and say your wrong or your right. Feels like I'm in church, with all of these perfect saints who don't sin. Man I love the attitude of forum perfectionist.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:16 PM   #283
Cod3rror
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Originally Posted by Paradoxally View Post
I totally agree with this. I know I'll get flamed for 'hoisting the colors', but I've pirated apps before. Installous helped, yes. It was a great platform to test apps too without having to buy them. Most (big?) developers offer a free version of their app, and that is highly recommended because then I don't need to go to Installous, but some don't and I tend to go for them to try it out. If an app I like goes on sale, I will buy it, no questions asked.

An example: Tweetbot is a great twitter client, as you may know. I was using the pirated version and it started locking me out and asking me to buy it, which caused frustration (good job developers) and so I ditched Tweetbot (was hoping it will go on sale soon) and started using Echofon free. Perfect for my needs. Sometimes people will pirate the most expensive app because they think it's the best, but Echofon has served really well for me and honestly I don't even want Tweetbot anymore (or pirate it). And €15 ($20) for their desktop app is too much. I've used Echofon desktop (now discontinued, but perfectly working) for free for 2+ years and I'm not switching.

My point is there should be a fairer price. In my case, I ditched Tweetbot - and you'll probably be saying 'oh you didn't pay for it anyway', true - but now I'm happy with Echofon free and reluctant to even switch back if it was on sale. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Some developers are just flat out greedy, Tweetbot is a great example of that. The other the Clear developer.

I don't care if their apps get pirated, I'm disappointed that people support them. If more people were like you, they'd realize how they are being plain greedy and lower the prices, but they people are sheep, they ate up the DLC on consoles... what else is there to talk about. It won't be long before apps cost 19.99.

Last edited by Cod3rror; Jan 1, 2013 at 12:46 PM.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:49 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Cod3rror View Post
Some developers are just flat out greedy, Tweetbot is a great example of that. The other the Clear developer.

I don't care if their apps get pirated, I'm disappointed that people support them. If more people were like you, they'd realize how they are being plain greedy and lower the prices, but they people are sheep, they ate up the DLC on consoles... what else is there to talk about. It won't be long before apps cost 19.99.
Tweetbot charges that much because Twitter LIMITS the user tokens they give out so they can only sell so many before they can't sell the App anymore (http://arstechnica.com/business/2012...blame-twitter/). They won't recoup their dev costs if they sell it for $0.99. Blame Twitter for become increasingly draconian with their third-party app policy.

And since when is it greedy to sell something YOU make for as much as YOU want? it's not like people will die or go wanting because Tweetbot is $20. Just use something else. Some people here think they are so entitled to the hard work of others.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:35 PM   #285
Compile 'em all
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Originally Posted by Paradoxally View Post
Didn't steal it. Stealing implies the rightful owner had something. For people to be able to pirate your app, either:

1. Someone had to buy the app and crack it and distribute it.
2. I had to buy it and crack it and give to whoever I wanted for free.

In either way, it's not stealing because it implies that somebody already paid for the app. You could say it's circumvention of copy protection, that I would agree. But theft, no sir. Did you lose out on sales? Yes, but you can't pull out the theft card for something to which you have never had (money from people who download pirate apps).
What do you mean it circumvents copy protection? Why would anyone want to circumvent copy protection unless they want to get my app for free instead of paying me for my months of work? While I could kinda understand some apps are prohibitively expensive (like Photoshop), I will never understand why would anyone pirate a 99 or 199-cents app.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradoxally View Post
I totally agree with this. I know I'll get flamed for 'hoisting the colors', but I've pirated apps before. Installous helped, yes. It was a great platform to test apps too without having to buy them. Most (big?) developers offer a free version of their app, and that is highly recommended because then I don't need to go to Installous, but some don't and I tend to go for them to try it out. If an app I like goes on sale, I will buy it, no questions asked.

An example: Tweetbot is a great twitter client, as you may know. I was using the pirated version and it started locking me out and asking me to buy it, which caused frustration (good job developers) and so I ditched Tweetbot (was hoping it will go on sale soon) and started using Echofon free. Perfect for my needs. Sometimes people will pirate the most expensive app because they think it's the best, but Echofon has served really well for me and honestly I don't even want Tweetbot anymore (or pirate it). And $20 for their desktop app is too much. I've used Echofon desktop (now discontinued, but perfectly working) for free for 2+ years and I'm not switching.

My point is there should be a fairer price. In my case, I ditched Tweetbot - and you'll probably be saying 'oh you didn't pay for it anyway', true - but now I'm happy with Echofon free and reluctant to even switch back if it was on sale. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I worked on my app with my brother for 6 months. It is only 1.99 (and was on sale before that for .99) and it still was pirated. Your argument that people pirate only expensive (or unfairly-priced) apps isn't true.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:47 PM   #286
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So to allow people to have money to buy a PS3 game or a book it's okay for someone to sneak a couple of unpaid apps on their phone?

If you don't have the money to buy it don't buy it. Doesn't give you a reason to steal. Because at the end of the day, it's stealing.

Quote:
But here's my take on things:

Hackulous going away? Well, it is what it is. If the operators got bored with it, or too many people just used the Installous app all the time without ever visiting the forums to discuss it, or whatever the situation? Ok - fine. They certainly don't owe it to anyone to keep it running.

But I actually did use Installous for a brief period of time on my first iPad. I'd counter that just as the article asserts there is "no shortage of people interested in cheating developers out of their fees"? There's never been a shortage of commercial iOS apps that are overpriced, and/or too difficult to fully evaluate before buying, and/or designed to cheat USERS out of their money with ridiculous in-app purchase demands or requirements of re-buying newer releases of the same software.

As I've *always* maintained when it comes to entertainment purchases of intangibles like music, movies, video games, etc. -- each individual only has a certain portion of their budget or income they can realistically devote to such things. If they opt to buy a few new books, or a magazine subscription one month, that means they may not have any more disposable income for an iOS app that time around. And if they buy a few iOS games the next month, then they may not have the money for a new Playstation 3 title they want to check out, or ??

Given that's the reality of the marketplace, developers should just get over concerns about "piracy", period. When you release something, you're immediately competing with ALL other forms of intellectual property sold as entertainment out there. A certain percentage will pay you and the rest will vote with their wallets for something else. That's the nature of the whole business. Whether or not someone downloads some of your material who didn't pay is irrelevant in the big picture. You wouldn't see a penny more of revenue if you could deny them the ability to do that! They spent what they were willing to spend on entertainment elsewhere already, and apparently YOUR product wasn't so outstandingly good it made them pay you instead to get it as quickly and easily as possible.

In fact, what we know happens is the reverse! The harder a developer tries to prevent some software from getting used without paying, the more inconvenient they make the software for a paying customer. (Think of DRM on iTunes music and how much that sucked compared to an unprotected MP3 that you could just play anywhere.)
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:06 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cod3rror View Post
Some developers are just flat out greedy, Tweetbot is a great example of that. The other the Clear developer.

I don't care if their apps get pirated, I'm disappointed that people support them. If more people were like you, they'd realize how they are being plain greedy and lower the prices, but they people are sheep, they ate up the DLC on consoles... what else is there to talk about. It won't be long before apps cost 19.99.
Since when is it up to you to go "Hmm, the price of this app is pretty steep... I don't think it's worth that much. So that gives me the right to steal it."
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:30 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by newagemac View Post
Uh, no. You might get canned for no reason but you still get paid for the time you worked. And more importantly, you willingly entered into the agreement with full knowledge that the stay is not guaranteed. Those people ripping off developers are not honoring any terms other than the ones they set themselves. It's not a two way agreement.
Hang on that's not true, in this case the only employer you can go to won't pay you for your time in the probation period and there are no other employers. Same as the terms offered by the IOS store. One app store, one policy, no choice. Also, where are these agreements with the devs? I've never seen one. I think it would be a great idea.

It should start with. I as a developer agree to produce a good stable piece of software and support it. If not, I'll refund you.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
I create it. I own all rights to it. I determine the price and I sell it.

You have it on your device, and you did not purchase it.

You stole it - call it anything you want, it's just semantics.
And what was the price? Your post is on my phone, I didn't steal it, but it's here.

So call the cops...oh except it's not a criminal case, it's a civil one. Just like lots of other petty offences.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:36 PM   #289
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Crimes are crimes but of course differ in nature and seriousness. Someone who murders one person is not as great a crime as Hitler but that is why we have a sliding scale of punishment. Piracy is theft so I am glad they have shut.

On the other hand some app devs with their app charge on top of IAP and extra charges for higher levels like Angry Birds is wrong too but two wrongs never make a right.

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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:56 PM   #290
Cod3rror
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Originally Posted by sikkinixx View Post
Tweetbot charges that much because Twitter LIMITS the user tokens they give out so they can only sell so many before they can't sell the App anymore (http://arstechnica.com/business/2012...blame-twitter/). They won't recoup their dev costs if they sell it for 0.73 ($0.99). Blame Twitter for become increasingly draconian with their third-party app policy.

And since when is it greedy to sell something YOU make for as much as YOU want? it's not like people will die or go wanting because Tweetbot is 15 ($20). Just use something else. Some people here think they are so entitled to the hard work of others.
It was always an expensive app. Twitter tokens is just an excuse.

And it's greedy since everyone else had apps for 0.99c and this guy thought "hmm, I'll price mine higher."
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:15 PM   #291
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What do you mean it circumvents copy protection? Why would anyone want to circumvent copy protection unless they want to get my app for free instead of paying me for my months of work? While I could kinda understand some apps are prohibitively expensive (like Photoshop), I will never understand why would anyone pirate a 99 or 199-cents app.

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I worked on my app with my brother for 6 months. It is only 1.99 (and was on sale before that for .99) and it still was pirated. Your argument that people pirate only expensive (or unfairly-priced) apps isn't true.
They pirate it because they don't like you, something you said or an action. Believe it or many people pirate to get back at a dev not because they want the app.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
Since when is it up to you to go "Hmm, the price of this app is pretty steep... I don't think it's worth that much. So that gives me the right to steal it."
Since it me using my device my time and technology.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:28 PM   #292
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I love the passion behind the people who get so angry over a .99 app, but if they saw there fellow man on the side of the road wouldn't give a dime. Man if everyone had the same moral code they have for apps and phone that they did in "real" life we might be ok in the world lol. Every paid app I have on my iPhone 5 minus a few I tried via Installous on my iPhone 4. iMovie, street fighter, camera+ to name a few. If your butt hurt and offended because I went against the "forum moral code of ethics" then so be it.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:41 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Paradoxally View Post
In either way, it's not stealing because it implies that somebody already paid for the app. You could say it's circumvention of copy protection, that I would agree. But theft, no sir. Did you lose out on sales? Yes, but you can't pull out the theft card for something to which you have never had (money from people who download pirate apps).
yeah right. I'll think I circumvent your chain lock by kicking in your front door.
Don't mind if I borrow a couple of things while I'm visiting.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:50 PM   #294
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Why would anyone want to circumvent copy protection unless they want to get my app for free instead of paying me for my months of work?
I've cracked my legally bought and owned software before. Sometimes you'll get an otherwise nice app/program/what have you that's a pain in the ass to deal with because of some overdraconian DRM scheme. When that happens, I'll just hop on ThePirateBay or something, grab the cracked version, and have the best of both worlds.

No, it's not legal as per the terms of the DMCA, but hell...who cares? I pay for the software. I support the developer. I have no qualms with tweaking something so it works a little better for me.

Quote:
While I could kinda understand some apps are prohibitively expensive (like Photoshop), I will never understand why would anyone pirate a 99 or 199-cents app.
This. A thousand times this. I can't think of a single justification for someone pirating something so damn cheap. You don't even need a demo for that. You don't like it, what's it cost you? A McDonald's plain hamburger? Comeon.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:57 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Cod3rror View Post
It was always an expensive app. Twitter tokens is just an excuse.

And it's greedy since everyone else had apps for 0.99c and this guy thought "hmm, I'll price mine higher."
What are you talking about? It was never out before they priced it.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:17 PM   #296
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What are you talking about? It was never out before they priced it.
I was talking about the iOS app.

How about Clear though? Can you justify his price? Even 'The Verge' criticized it.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:36 PM   #297
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I was talking about the iOS app.

How about Clear though? Can you justify his price? Even 'The Verge' criticized it.
I'll have a crack at justifying it.

There's the hours taken to plan the app. What features do you want? Which features are the most important and how will the app streamline routing the user through these features as easily as possible? Design of all the graphics, colours, fonts, following your company's house style so it's easily recognised as a Tapbots app. Programming the app. Testing. Bug fixing. Tweaks based on the usability testing. Technical support.

Producing an app isn't a small endeavour. If people are prepared to pay £10 for their app why shouldn't they charge that for it? I would.

People complaining about 69p app is what keeps me well away from bothering to develop any iPhone apps. I've got a couple of ideas but no way am I slogging my guts out for 69p a pop with the implication that it comes with technical support from now until the sun goes nova.

Good on them for charging a realistic price I say.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:59 PM   #298
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Good on them for charging a realistic price I say.
I think this is the biggest problem plaguing the app store. Back in the day of the iPhone 3G, it was understandable why most apps cost 99 cents. They were basically simple feature toys that didn't require a tremendous amount of time and effort to create. To put it simply, they were glorified web apps. Rarely ever more complicated than, say, weather.com's front page.

But as iOS becomes more mature and gains access to more powerful hardware, the software will become more complex and capable. We're already reaching the point where they're becoming comparable to desktop apps. But hey, guess what? Most everyone is still stuck in 99 cent mode. Anytime a developer releases an app that costs more, you'll have some idiot on some random website knocking it because "it's way overpriced at $3.99". If something costs $9.99...good god, people freak out.

Convincing people that mobile software can be worth more than 99 cents is one of the biggest hurdles the scene has to face. Otherwise, it's never going to grow beyond what we've got now.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:05 PM   #299
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They pirate it because they don't like you, something you said or an action. Believe it or many people pirate to get back at a dev not because they want the app.[COLOR="#808080"]
I don't know what you are basing this off but it isn't correct. I am very familiar with the cracking scene and it is 99.999999% driven by people wanting apps for free. Hacking is mostly personal, cracking isn't. Every single mildly popular app or game was available on Installous. Thousands and thousands of them. Almost all of them are 99 cents. You want to tell me that it is personal?



----------

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Originally Posted by Eiswritsat View Post
I love the passion behind the people who get so angry over a .99 app, but if they saw there fellow man on the side of the road wouldn't give a dime. Man if everyone had the same moral code they have for apps and phone that they did in "real" life we might be ok in the world lol. Every paid app I have on my iPhone 5 minus a few I tried via Installous on my iPhone 4. iMovie, street fighter, camera+ to name a few. If your butt hurt and offended because I went against the "forum moral code of ethics" then so be it.
It is cool if you download pirated copies just to "test" apps before deleting them to buy them from the store, but you are in the minority.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:06 PM   #300
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I don't know what you are basing this off but it isn't correct. I am very familiar with the cracking scene and it is 99.999999% driven by people wanting apps for free. Hacking is mostly personal, cracking isn't.
And the difference is only the device..

I'm basing it off of being the biggest pirate on MR by a LLLOOONNNNGGG shot.
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