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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:33 PM   #326
All Taken
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I'm 35 with a Bachelors in Philosophy and an MBA. I have a wife and a 7 yo daughter..

Building a computer and installing an OS is a life skill no different than cooking, working on the car etc.

Time is the least subjective thing we're talking about simply put if you have time to post here you don't need the power of a modern hack.
You post here and have used/use a powerful hack... Enthusiast is the flip side I guess. I disagree with this guys belittlement of the scene, the user places himself 'above' those who run hackintoshes which is a very poor thing to do. I was just trying to be polite. Placing students as those with sufficient time to make and maintain a Hackintosh is moronic to say the least.

I have a busy family life myself and could always use more powerful hardware but my leisure time is mine. I couldn't agree with you more about the installation of an OS being a lifeskill no different to other basic life skills. I think that for my daughters generation it will be a forgotten skill, it's a damn simple one but forgotten none the less, purely due to the closed box world of computing we are starting to see emerge. Damn shame.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:37 PM   #327
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You post here and have used/use a powerful hack... Enthusiast is the flip side I guess. I disagree with this guys belittlement of the scene, the user places himself 'above' those who run hackintoshes which is a very poor thing to do. I was just trying to be polite. Placing students as those with sufficient time to make and maintain a Hackintosh is moronic to say the least.

I have a busy family life myself and could always use more powerful hardware but my leisure time is mine. I couldn't agree with you more about the installation of an OS being a lifeskill no different to other basic life skills. I think that for my daughters generation it will be a forgotten skill, it's a damn simple one but forgotten none the less, purely due to the closed box world of computing we are starting to see emerge. Damn shame.
I don't live in this world, so my experience in it is limited. I don't think the closed box is the future for the enthusiast not the pro.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:05 AM   #328
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Remember he/she has time to post on MR but not enough time to build a computer..
Yeah because posting to a forum takes way more time and effort....

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Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
I'm 35 with a Bachelors in Philosophy and an MBA. I have a wife and a 7 yo daughter..

Building a computer and installing an OS is a life skill no different than cooking, working on the car etc.

Time is the least subjective thing we're talking about simply put if you have time to post here you don't need the power of a modern hack.
Again....I have built computers in the past, I have been in the IT industry for over 15 years, I specialise in IT security now and have engineered solutions from the ground up. I think I can confirm that posting to a forum takes less time than building a hackintosh.....even one with 'recommended' parts...

And btw, a BA in philosophy means you dossed around at uni doing a 8 hour week....I know that guys at my uni doing that course did FA compared to computer science students like myself....so I guess you have a job with a similar workload now.....ie light.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:18 AM   #329
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You post here and have used/use a powerful hack... Enthusiast is the flip side I guess. I disagree with this guys belittlement of the scene, the user places himself 'above' those who run hackintoshes which is a very poor thing to do. I was just trying to be polite. Placing students as those with sufficient time to make and maintain a Hackintosh is moronic to say the least.

I have a busy family life myself and could always use more powerful hardware but my leisure time is mine. I couldn't agree with you more about the installation of an OS being a lifeskill no different to other basic life skills. I think that for my daughters generation it will be a forgotten skill, it's a damn simple one but forgotten none the less, purely due to the closed box world of computing we are starting to see emerge. Damn shame.
I'm not belittling the scene, having been there and done that I'm stating a fact...why do you think apple spend millions in R&D and use server grade components (Xeon processors vs i7s etc) not to mention the design aspect if you could just build an 'identical' product with off the shelf components....it's like the guys who say they can build a cheaper PC than an iMac and then substitute the 800 screen with a 150 one.....it's not the point. Just because I can build something cheaper does not make it better.....if you can't afford apple products that's life..,,I can't afford a Ferrari but you know it's better than a souped up Hyundai.....
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:57 AM   #330
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^ Heh. Debbie downer is a crackup. It's always funny when those unable to do something insist that no one else is able to either.

"server grade parts" *chuckle*. Newsflash: if you want to build a computer with a Xeon CPU (even dual) and server motherboard and install OSX on it, that's easily do-able. Quite a few dual CPU sever boards work great for Hackintoshes. Just people that actually know hardware realize there's nothing magical about any of it. Xeon is just a brand name and doesn't necessarily perform any better than the equivalent i7. (Xeons are more durable, and run redundant microcode, but otherwise no difference).

In fact, I'd much rather have a system now with an IvyBridge i7 overclocked than most any Xeon system, and certainly I'd rather use standard RAM than overpriced buffered RAM; much better bang for the buck.

I've been running Hackintoshes as my primary computers for 4 years now. My machines handle all the editing work I can throw at them. The process started out pretty straightforward, but it's only gotten easier, not more difficult. The last few Thunderbolt 3770k i7 Hacks I built for clients were virtually as easy to install as any real Mac would be. Tonymacx86, kakewalk and a few other methods make it easy. You pretty much have to be *ahem* a debbie-downer-doofus to f-up a modern Hack if you can read, buy the right hardware, and follow a guide where someone else has already figured everything out and created tools to allow you to do everything with one-click.

It's amusing (also annoying) to hear ignorant people flail around insisting something that's easy is difficult and desperately trying to spread FUD, but then again, that's the nature of the Internet!
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:36 AM   #331
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^ Heh. Debbie downer is a crackup. It's always funny when those unable to do something insist that no one else is able to either.

"server grade parts" *chuckle*. Newsflash: if you want to build a computer with a Xeon CPU (even dual) and server motherboard and install OSX on it, that's easily do-able. Quite a few dual CPU sever boards work great for Hackintoshes. Just people that actually know hardware realize there's nothing magical about any of it. Xeon is just a brand name and doesn't necessarily perform any better than the equivalent i7. (Xeons are more durable, and run redundant microcode, but otherwise no difference).

In fact, I'd much rather have a system now with an IvyBridge i7 overclocked than most any Xeon system, and certainly I'd rather use standard RAM than overpriced buffered RAM; much better bang for the buck.

I've been running Hackintoshes as my primary computers for 4 years now. My machines handle all the editing work I can throw at them. The process started out pretty straightforward, but it's only gotten easier, not more difficult. The last few Thunderbolt 3770k i7 Hacks I built for clients were virtually as easy to install as any real Mac would be. Tonymacx86, kakewalk and a few other methods make it easy. You pretty much have to be *ahem* a debbie-downer-doofus to f-up a modern Hack if you can read, buy the right hardware, and follow a guide where someone else has already figured everything out and created tools to allow you to do everything with one-click.

It's amusing (also annoying) to hear ignorant people flail around insisting something that's easy is difficult and desperately trying to spread FUD, but then again, that's the nature of the Internet!

I think if you had read my post you would realise that I built hackintoshes 5 years ago, have worked with Linux since the days it was installed from 20odd floppy disks and with other variants of unix (Solaris, sunos 4.x, hp-ux, aix, Sco) for the last 20 years, building a hackintosh is not a challenge to me. In fact I was building them before the 'how to' guides you mention, so who's the Dufus now?

Also, if there is no difference between a hackintosh and professional grade workstation (hp/dell/apple), why does the latter market exist....come back when you grow up a little.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:47 AM   #332
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I think the point being missed is that everyone values their time differently. If after the work and family time are subtracted, you feel that it's worthwhile to build a PC with whatever OS then great.

It doesn't take a special snowflake to piece together a Hackintosh. To some it simply isn't worth the bother.

I have no doubt that it's simply fun for some. When I was younger I loved doing stuff like that.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 03:10 AM   #333
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I think if you had read my post you would realise that I built hackintoshes 5 years ago, have worked with Linux since the days it was installed from 20odd floppy disks and with other variants of unix (Solaris, sunos 4.x, hp-ux, aix, Sco) for the last 20 years, building a hackintosh is not a challenge to me. In fact I was building them before the 'how to' guides you mention, so who's the Dufus now?

Also, if there is no difference between a hackintosh and professional grade workstation (hp/dell/apple), why does the latter market exist....come back when you grow up a little.
Handholding no reason other than that..

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Yeah because posting to a forum takes way more time and effort....

----------



Again....I have built computers in the past, I have been in the IT industry for over 15 years, I specialise in IT security now and have engineered solutions from the ground up. I think I can confirm that posting to a forum takes less time than building a hackintosh.....even one with 'recommended' parts...

And btw, a BA in philosophy means you dossed around at uni doing a 8 hour week....I know that guys at my uni doing that course did FA compared to computer science students like myself....so I guess you have a job with a similar workload now.....ie light.
Dosing has what to do with anything?

You missed the grad school but that's ok because it wasn't overly difficult either.

You've been in the IT industry with a CS degree for 15 years sooo??

All of this has nothing to do with the point of; You can find time to post in thread about building computers yet don't have time to build one?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 03:17 AM   #334
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Handholding no reason other than that..
Really? So a team of engineers with a multi million dollar budget know less about technology than you? Unless you are the next Steve Wozniak I doubt it.....the rest of your msg I don't have the energy to respond to, I guess I'm too tired after the mammoth task of posting to this forum
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 03:48 AM   #335
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I really don't understand people bitching about hacks.
Mac Pro's are awesome machines. And expensive. I simply can't afford a good one.
Hackintoshes are PC's - yes. But just because they don't have any Apple logo on them doesen't mean that they are garbage. You should know that yourself if you have been building ones yourself, otherwise you made something wrong for 15 years.

As brent said, it's a question of how you value your time, but also how you can deal with fiddling and fixing things yourself. That may be my age, but I like fiddling and fixing. Because I learn a lot about what I'm doing.
My father always laughs at me, but he doesen't care waiting a few minutes until his old iMac finally booted. It's simply a question what you prefer.

Cars aren't any different. Go ahead and buy a Ferrari if you like. But if I'm gonna overtake you with my super tuned Nissan, please don't cry. A Ferrari looks better, feels better, but costs more than twice as much as a super tuned Nissan GTR.


But just let people prefer their stuff and don't hate them for anything. I guess you're quite a bit older than me, so you might prefer a Bentley over a Nissan GTR.


And just that you know: I went working as a graphic designer last summer, and from the money I earned I bought myself a nice 2.66 Quad Mac Pro. Was quite happy with it, but somehow I missed options for doing more.
So I sold it for 2200. Now I bought hardware for 1500 and a watercooling setup for another 700, mainly that it's silent and looks good.
I am dealing with OS X since I was 10 years old. Meanwhile, I got better than our IT guy at school. I know Macs pretty good and I am happy with my hack. Because it can compete in what is important for me with every Mac I know.

Last edited by El Awesome; Jan 2, 2013 at 03:59 AM.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 07:31 AM   #336
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I can afford and would gladly buy a new Mac Pro, assuming there was a new Mac Pro, or even a quasi new Mac Pro... But there sure ain't, so I'm happily biding my time with hackintoshing. The new boards are easier than ever, I boot with a z77/ivy build with no DSDT, one kext (FakeSMC) - Sonnet Presto works OOTB for lan, M-Audio Fast Track Pro works OOTB for audio... GTX 670 works OOTB without even graphicsenabler... Bluetooth is a mac pro chip soldered to a usb header, that works fully OOTB... Basically i just use one kernel extension that has worked in every version of OSX thus far (FakeSMC), no special boot args to boot.... I'd actually be impressed if an update broke it or gave me something to do with it, but it doesn't seem very likely. I love my gear too, Corsair 650D Chassis, Corsair AX850 PSU, 16GB Corsair Ram, Asus P8Z77-V Pro, i7-3770k, EVGA GTX 670, Corsair H100... all looks lovely, plays games great at 1440p. It's a decent machine to play with until the ever elusive Mac Pro is released, should it be released.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 09:06 AM   #337
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I'm in the same boat as cosmicjoke. I can afford a MacPro and will buy one if they ever release it. I just hate to spend that much money on something that is so far behind (not trying to start a fight....it just hasn't really been updated in a while).
I've been happily running hackintosh for about 18 months. There are hurdles, but I've learned to deal with them.
Just in case others haven't found it yet...there is a new problem with registering with imessage on Hackintosh. Just won't work in the last couple of days. Hopefully the brainiacs among us will figure that out.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 09:50 AM   #338
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Is a quad core 2010 refurb poor value when upgraded to a 6 core manually? Seems to me all of this talk of value is nonsensical when it is correlated against the high price of Apple branded PC's.

I understand the wait for a 2013 Mac Pro and using a hackintosh until that time but the value argument becomes redundant as soon as you apply the 2013 Mac Pro cost compared to equivalent PC hardware 'Hackintosh'.

It's a good stop gap but if value is your true motivator then a 6,1 Mac Pro will surely be 'too much'.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 10:03 AM   #339
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Is a quad core 2010 refurb poor value when upgraded to a 6 core manually? Seems to me all of this talk of value is nonsensical when it is correlated against the high price of Apple branded PC's.

I understand the wait for a 2013 Mac Pro and using a hackintosh until that time but the value argument becomes redundant as soon as you apply the 2013 Mac Pro cost compared to equivalent PC hardware 'Hackintosh'.

It's a good stop gap but if value is your true motivator then a 6,1 Mac Pro will surely be 'too much'.
A good refurb costs 1500.-
6core CPU 600.-
More RAM 200.-
SSD 200.-

That makes it 2500.-
For that you can get a LGA2011 sixcore build with about twice as much performance.
Or if you spend a little more, you can go Dual LGA2011 Xeon an get your GB score near 40000.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:03 PM   #340
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A good refurb costs 1500.-
6core CPU 600.-
More RAM 200.-
SSD 200.-

That makes it 2500.-
For that you can get a LGA2011 sixcore build with about twice as much performance.
Or if you spend a little more, you can go Dual LGA2011 Xeon an get your GB score near 40000.
Of course, I'm really not arguing that the equivalent/more powerful 'Hackintosh hardware is cheaper. What I'm getting at is if you have the mindset that a Hackintosh offers you better bang per buck then it might be very difficult to actually buy the 2013 Mac Pro at X price upon release purely due to the mindset you have. Even if your current hackintosh is a stop gap the value part of your thought process is likely a strong deterrent if you can get more powerful OS X capable hardware for less.... Personally i'd find that value vs performance vs reliability equation a strong deterrent in a 2013 Mac Pro purchase if I were a hackintosh user. See my point?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:22 PM   #341
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Back again to the MP

I'm my case it's not the cost of the machine so much as cost of the machine vs. HW. The second thing that is not being talked about is the attachment people feel to personal objects. I have two quite fast and quite capable Hack's and sold them both because I don't feel the attachment to them that I feel for my MP. I think I enjoy the building more than the end product.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:24 PM   #342
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I think if you had read my post you would realise that I built hackintoshes 5 years ago
Heh. Five years ago!

Funny how people spouting the most tech-ignorant nonsense have to give their weak resume speil rather than actually know what they're talking about in present time. Typical.


Anyway... for people more focused on the present time, not stuck with decades-outdated nonsense, building a Hackintosh isn't difficult and well worth the effort.

And sorry, I don't feel that much of an 'attachment' to inanimate objects. These things are just tools, not people or pets or whatever else.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:37 PM   #343
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For that you can get a LGA2011 sixcore build with about twice as much performance.
Or if you spend a little more, you can go Dual LGA2011 Xeon an get your GB score near 40000.
What 6 core LGA2011 CPU are you figuring will double the performance of the X3680?
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:15 PM   #344
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All this talk of Hackintosh has me thinking about selling my 2012 6-core with 32GB Ram, GTX 680, 4x 4TB drives, 4x 256GB 1TB SSD raid via highpoint 2720sgl. Still under warranty. Now I know this might be better suited in the buying advice forum but given the knowledge base in this thread I'd appreciate a mod not deleting it.

What do you think I could build/expect to get money wise for my above pro? Just an example? Thanks
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:22 PM   #345
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All this talk of Hackintosh has me thinking about selling my 2012 6-core with 32GB Ram, GTX 680, 4x 4TB drives, 4x 256GB 1TB SSD raid via highpoint 2720sgl. Still under warranty. Now I know this might be better suited in the buying advice forum but given the knowledge base in this thread I'd appreciate a mod not deleting it.

What do you think I could build/expect to get money wise for my above pro? Just an example? Thanks
Now I can see not wanting to buy a mac pro with a 2yr old processor and logic board with less than appetizing feature set at this point, but really, you already have it and you've decked the thing out... why on earth sell it? Plus half the things you may as well keep if you do want a new rig (gtx 680, SSDs/HDDs)
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:36 PM   #346
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What 6 core LGA2011 CPU are you figuring will double the performance of the X3680?
a 3930K at 4.2 or so will yield near 25,000 in Geekbench..Tutor will most likely end up at double the 15k of a 6 core MacPro

**edit** He's already at 28K at 4.1 Ghz in Windows, so he'll probably more than double a 6 core.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 02:54 PM   #347
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Ok, so we're moving away from ECC RAM and Xeon CPUs. We're going to hackintosh for the OS, and we're going to overclock the living **** out of it.

Nevermind.. You're squarely in enthusiast mode and I'm squarely in work mode so there's no point in trying to discuss.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 03:00 PM   #348
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I've built them and did exactly that. The power is nice, but it isn't a mac. Just like a custom built high end gaming PC isn't an alienware. Raw power isn't everything.
correct, the high end gaming PC is much better than an alienware.


And with the ******* insane prices on Mac Pros these days, Hackintosh all the way if you know how to do it
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 03:04 PM   #349
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I'm currently using a Hackintosh with no issues. I use it for work, so I am not overclocking it at all. It has been rock stabile, but due to its professional use, I am considering buying a Mac Pro. I'm going to hold out for the new models. If I were using the Hackintosh for personal use, I would have no qualms but using it for work is a whole different thing.

I put it together primarily due to cost. I couldn't justify a 3000+ USD system for a start-up, but now that I've nestled into the work I'm seriously reconsidering its use. Its been well worth it so far, but peace of mind is worth more. The good part about a hackintosh is that they can be easily reused in a PC, Linux system, NAS, PHP server, or whatever.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:42 PM   #350
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I just retired my 2008 Mac Pro after sitting on the fence about buying a used 2009 or building a hack, in the end I built a hack because I didn't see the point in buying old technology when I could have the best of both with a hack. Now I have a quad core Ivy Bridge system with USB 3, SATA 6G and thunderbolt along with my GTX 670. Because my Gigabyte board has on board Intel 4000 graphics I even get a boot screen with the Apple logo as one of my three LED monitors is connected to it, my other two are connected to my 670. I am very happy with this system, it took me literally half an hour to assemble and install my Corsair M4 256GB SSD drive boots the system in under 30 seconds, it sweet!
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