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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:04 PM   #76
miknos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baryon View Post
I think the problem of TV is that 99.9999999% of content is complete crap, and most people just watch TV to turn their brain off and don't care about what is actually happening. People can watch celebrities arguing, people who can't sing sining, or people talking about politics for hours.

I don't think TV can be saved at all, or that there is a need for it in today's world. You can do everything on a computer that a TV could do, and much more, so why do you need a TV? Is it just for the big screen? Then why not just get a bigger computer monitor?

People who grew up with TV are of course addicted to it, but those who grew up with the internet are less reliant on TV. I think and hope that TV will at some point become extinct and replaced by what is already there on computers.

As Daft Punk says, "Television rules the nation"
Spot on,

I think the problem is that people are used to sit in front of the television and watch whatever crap is there just to spend time. It's hard to come up with decent content 24/7 the whole fricking year. That's why there's so much crap.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:08 PM   #77
John.B
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Originally Posted by ziggyonice View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

I want time shifting.

I want to be able to watch any show I want. At anytime. Anywhere.

I don't want to have to subscribe to cable for this very reason television companies hate time shifting. They want you to watch TV on their schedule.

I want to subscribe to channels on an a la carte basis. I want to pay a couple bucks per month for an ESPN "app" and a couple others, through my Apple ID. I then want to watch the content live or on-demand, my choice. None of those "package deals" crap. I don't need to pay for 300+ channels I don't watch.
Do you have any idea what ESPN/ABC, Fox, CBS, NBC pay annually for the right to air sports content? You think "a couple bucks per month" is going to cover the revenue stream that ESPN, etc. currently get from airing TV ads?
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:08 PM   #78
tom123
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Too many commercials equals nobody pays attention to em

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Originally Posted by KdParker View Post
Of course we want content.

That is the only thing that will hold back the success of these new smart features for TVs.
Ads, commercials there's just way too much. No wonder nobody wants to watch live TV anymore. Using Eye TV, I routinely edit a one-hour showdown to 42 minutes.

That's about three minutes of content for one minute commercial.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:19 PM   #79
nickcliborne
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Originally Posted by bungiefan89 View Post
The only thing TV does better than the internet is provide content to huge audiences at once. During election night, news websites around the country were saturated with users and slow-loading pages due to the bandwidth demands, while the television continued to broadcast without difficulty.
That's because they have a poor network engineering team. Content distribution is really not that hard to do on a massive scale.

Hopefully content providers will hire smart people like myself who can setup and maintain these solutions.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 03:20 PM   #80
GermanyChris
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Originally Posted by firestarter View Post
I'm now in my 6th year without a TV set...
I'm a little further along..I gave up TV when the army broke mine in shipping in 2003..No I have a big Hi res display and all the netflix, Hulu, Youtube, Amazon instant, and ripped movies I want.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:00 PM   #81
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Problem is that younger folks don't care much for TV, and the older folks have a hard time accepting Televisions as throwaway appliances like computers. Americans expect to keep their TVs for at least 10 years and are not prone to buy one they see as burdened by features that will cause obsolescence.

Frankly, I agree with them. Content is much better delivered by STB or some other device. A TV should be a display.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom123 View Post
Ads, commercials there's just way too much. No wonder nobody wants to watch live TV anymore. Using Eye TV, I routinely edit a one-hour showdown to 42 minutes.

That's about three minutes of content for one minute commercial.
That's not a new development. That has always been the ratio.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:01 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by BayouTiger View Post
Problem is that younger folks don't care much for TV, and the older folks have a hard time accepting Televisions as throwaway appliances like computers. Americans expect to keep their TVs for at least 10 years and are not prone to buy one they see as burdened by features that will cause obsolescence.

Frankly, I agree with them. Content is much better delivered by STB or some other device. A TV should be a display.

----------



That's not a new development. That has always been the ratio.
Americans throw away everything, I don't think a TV is unique.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:08 PM   #83
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I completely disagree. Many old folks have their working TV sitting on top of their non working TV.

TV's, books, and CDs for some reason get special treatment. Americans never throw away a book, and even had a hard time throwing the old AOL cd's in the can. You can go in almost any home and find an old tube TV that has not been used for years, but they can't seem to part with it.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:20 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
What I'd like out of my TV:

A range of content. Not channels, as we really do not need those anymore. It's out of date and pointless.

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Lets say you watch The Big Bang Theory. Lets say that right now, a new episode is on at 8:00pm every Thursday.

Now, if something like live sport needs to be shown, Big Bang Theory has to be cut, and the episode moves to the following week.

This just seems idiotic.

Make everything on demand. The networks can still release programs at the same time each week, just as an on-demand stream that is only active after a certain time. They can still show ads before/in-between/after (forcefully stopping you skipping them, otherwise no adverts = no content).

This way you just pick your shows from a library, 'bookmark' them and watch as you like.

For live content, a live streaming service would be provided, just for that event. Adverts would then be fed down as part of the stream in the same way current TV services work.

Each TV network would have a section for each show, where you can watch past episodes on demand, again with ads to cover their costs, etc. This would kill DVD/BlueRay sales, but TBH thats going to happen very soon anyway and its an inevitable transition.

Each TV show area could also have exclusive content such as blogs, games, etc specific to the show you love.

Television in its current state needs to die. It's just crap. We dont need channels.

As another option on top of the above. You could buy a 'season pass' to your favorite shows or networks which would make them ad-free. Adverts would only be shown if you are on 'basic'.

This would create an Xbox Live stlye subscription where you have a Gold or Silver tier which gives different benefits. For example on the 'Silver Tier' you may not get access to live sports, but on 'Gold' you would.
The problem is a la carte is not as profitable as the current system. Everybody likes the concept of a la carte because they make the misguided assumption that they will spend less money watching the shows/channels they want. The problem is the number of people who are actually willing to pay for certain shows, even those they like, will result in a much smaller pie than the bundled network/channel model that's in place now.

The 'All You Can Eat' model makes people a lot less discerning about what they purchase. Until you can create a model that brings in similar revenue to the current model, an a la carte model is a non-starter.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom123 View Post
Ads, commercials there's just way too much. No wonder nobody wants to watch live TV anymore. Using Eye TV, I routinely edit a one-hour showdown to 42 minutes.

That's about three minutes of content for one minute commercial.
It'll be interesting to see where this goes. I love my DVR as much as the next person, but I also realize that advertising content offsets a lot of the cost of programming. If there is a significant decrease in the effectiveness of TV ads, will consumers be willing to pay the freight in higher costs through their cable/satellite providers?

Probably not....

If that day comes to pass, the industry will have to find creative ways to increase revenue streams.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 04:59 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by a0me View Post
Everybody can use the basic functions of their TVs. TV sets are also very low maintenance (no updates, no viruses, no password, no driver issues, etc...) and have no boot time.
Most modern TVs also have a lot more AV I/O ports than PCs. You'll need them if you have an Apple TV, a couple of consoles and a sound system plugged in.

For one, I haven't seen a lot of 50"+ consumer monitors around. Apple's biggest displays are 27" now, and other manufacturers are about the same. Where are the "bigger computer monitors"?
Yes, but perhaps the new Apple TV (or Samsung or whoever) will be just that: a huge but lower pixel multi-purpose screen that can be used for gaming, Apple TV, computer stuff, and "TV".

I think the problem with television is the entire concept of television itself, as it is now and as it ever was. Maybe TV could be to the new Apple TV a tiny bit like what the telephone is to the iPhone: one decreasingly important feature among a gazillion other more versatile features.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:28 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
... new NPD research has found that consumers want more access to online video services like HBO Go rather than "smart" features like social networking access on their TVs. ...
Well hey! Look who just caught up!

Big Problem #1

The living room TV is a family resource. Unless you live alone.
But "social" and most internet communication in general, is personal. Nobody else cares.
Hogging the big, expensive, shared resource for your social activities is, well, anti-social in a home setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
... NPD said that a big problem is that TV owners are confused because too much choice is creating a complex user experience. ...
The home TV experience is completely different than the personal computer / pad computer / smart phone experience. Yes, it is possible to jam the personal computer experience (round peg) onto a big-screen television (square hole.) But no, consumers won't like it one bit. They didn't like it in the past. They don't like it now. They won't like it in the future.

WebTV tried it with standard-def TVs and dial-up modems (the past) Google TV tried it with HDTV screens and broadband internet access (the present). Same difference. Neither caught on. WebTV and Google TV are both dead. Why, exactly?

Big Problem #2

Your physical distance from the screen (or computer controls) directly affects your ability to deal with complexity. iPhone -> in your palm. iPad -> in your hands or on the desk/table right in front of you. Laptop -> right in front of you on your lap or desk. Desktop -> right in front of you on your desk. You can instantly tap, swipe, pinch, click, select, cut/copy/paste, drag 'n drop, etc. to complete tasks on all of these devices. You instantly touch their screen to control them or touch the keyboard and mouse that control them.

Then there's your living room TV. It's over there. Across the room, against the wall. You never touch it. It's at least 8 feet away from your favorite couch. It could be controlled by touch if you walked up to it, but that would be terribly inconvenient (and would lead to "Gorilla Arm" - look it up in Wikipedia). It could be controlled by a touchscreen controller (iPhone / iPad / iPod touch) but that raises the cost by that of the touchscreen device.

Controlling your living room TV with a conventional remote is like torture. (First world problem, I know.) But it's a torture we're accustomed to, because we've been trained since birth to accept it. 19th century people used horses every day for transportation, and they accepted all the manure (and the occasional dead horse) in the streets. No way to avoid it. It's just the way things were.

The more computer-like features your TV has, the more controlling it becomes like building a ship in a bottle. And that's true even if you have a wireless keyboard and mouse. Sheer torture. Ever try balancing a keyboard on your lap and trying to compose an email message on your TV? Or typing a 63-character URL? Or filling out a form on a web page? I have. It sucks.

So let's pretend that Apple can eliminate the need for any physical controller. Now that there's Siri, your big-screen TV could be controlled by voice. And maybe later, an iSight camera could detect faces and gestures too. No remote to lose. No extra iPhone / iPad / iPod touch to buy if your family members happen to not be fully equipped already. You'd launch apps, compose tweets, check power tool prices on Amazon, just by speaking and gesturing. Seems like it might work, but...

Nope. Even if it were possible to instantly compose emails, tweets, and Facebook scribbles, we run smack into Big Problem #1. The anti-social nature of hogging the big-screen family TV for your own boring, irrelevant internet stuff. And even if you live alone and have the big-screen TV all to yourself 24/7, the novelty of using it as a super big monitor will wear off after 15 minutes. You'll just use your iPad as a 2nd screen for all that internet stuff anyway.

One screen just isn't enough any more. But that's another thread entirely.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 05:33 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by John.B View Post
Do you have any idea what ESPN/ABC, Fox, CBS, NBC pay annually for the right to air sports content? You think "a couple bucks per month" is going to cover the revenue stream that ESPN, etc. currently get from airing TV ads?
Exactly, la carte TV without ads (the "no channels" concept) would be ridiculously expensive. If not plain impossible to market.
I, personally, love the concept of custom content but I don't think we'll ever see it. Unless people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars a month for their small selection of shows. Yeah, I don't think so either...
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:00 PM   #88
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Simple history: No buck a show, no Apple TV. Apple needs gigantic catalogs of appealing and cheap digital media as fuel to launch its devices. A buck a title is the price/title that Apple discovered would sell its iOS devices: No buck a tune, and the iPod would have failed. No buck an app and arguably the iPhone would have failed and the iPad also. So Apple will not produce an iMax until it can sell or at least rent tons of great prime time and feature length shows at about a buck a piece. Apple knows better than to put lipstick on the pig that is the TV/cable industry today. Apple sells solutions not toys.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:37 PM   #89
WilliamLondon
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Originally Posted by TripleCore View Post
Hasn't the whole social media thing played itself out yet?
What, you mean like internet blogs and forums where people congregate to socialise about various themes and topics in which they share an interest? I sure hope not.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 07:13 PM   #90
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It is very unlikely anyone will offer comprehensive content at reasonable cost to significant number of end users. Licensing would be too complex, it would require extraordinary renegotiation across a US market. Then add the FCC constrains of applied censorship within the US and there is no possible way you will be able to select a full broadcast from Teheran, Rome, London, Moscow or any other critical source of world news. Uncensored. Then again, does the American market really cares with its need to view en masse some retarded college football on New Year's Eve instead of something even slightly more sophisticated, does it care for any content exceeding needs of a tv hayseed? The more important issues in the USA market is to be able to brag about pixel count, gun ammo capacity and the screen size.

Last edited by Konrad; Jan 1, 2013 at 07:39 PM.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 07:28 PM   #91
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How Much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
What I'd like out of my TV:

A range of content. Not channels, as we really do not need those anymore. It's out of date and pointless.

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Lets say you watch The Big Bang Theory. Lets say that right now, a new episode is on at 8:00pm every Thursday.

Now, if something like live sport needs to be shown, Big Bang Theory has to be cut, and the episode moves to the following week.

This just seems idiotic.

Make everything on demand. The networks can still release programs at the same time each week, just as an on-demand stream that is only active after a certain time. They can still show ads before/in-between/after (forcefully stopping you skipping them, otherwise no adverts = no content).

This way you just pick your shows from a library, 'bookmark' them and watch as you like.

For live content, a live streaming service would be provided, just for that event. Adverts would then be fed down as part of the stream in the same way current TV services work.

Each TV network would have a section for each show, where you can watch past episodes on demand, again with ads to cover their costs, etc. This would kill DVD/BlueRay sales, but TBH thats going to happen very soon anyway and its an inevitable transition.

Each TV show area could also have exclusive content such as blogs, games, etc specific to the show you love.

Television in its current state needs to die. It's just crap. We dont need channels.

As another option on top of the above. You could buy a 'season pass' to your favorite shows or networks which would make them ad-free. Adverts would only be shown if you are on 'basic'.

This would create an Xbox Live stlye subscription where you have a Gold or Silver tier which gives different benefits. For example on the 'Silver Tier' you may not get access to live sports, but on 'Gold' you would.
This.

But what you have here is a la carte. We can only hope that something like this comes to pass.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 07:36 PM   #92
Felasco
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Originally Posted by a0me View Post
Where are the "bigger computer monitors"?
We just bought a 30 inch flatscreen TV for $200. Works great as a second screen for the laptop too.

Used laptop and 30 inch TV/monitor, total price $600.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 08:06 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Between Netflix, Hulu+ and iTunes I have plenty of content on Apple TV. More than I can watch or care to watch actually.

I want a smarter TV, with full iOS style functionality, and an Ecosystem that integrates more tightly with other Apple products.

TV as is has plenty of content and is in decline so clearly it is not all about content, and having dozens of monthly subscription services is not the answer either.
You want an even Smarter TV? Why don't you just buy a Mini and use it as an HTPC. It works great for me.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 08:14 PM   #94
haruhiko
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Originally Posted by newdeal View Post
Eventually Apple will get content, release a device and have massive success and then really **** over the other providers when they are begging to get on board. I am honestly surprised they aren't already all over this with DVRs, commercial skipping and internet that is now fast enough to download high def video easily (aka as fast as when people were stealing songs with dialup)
then Google will release a free Smart TV OS that is suddenly much easier to use than its current Google TV OS......
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 08:15 PM   #95
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The Samsung Smart TV ads are some of the dumbest things I've seen...having to stand in front of your TV and wave your hand to do stuff...just make that doable on the remote (tablet) if you want something like that and use your finger.

The majority of my family and friends...no one wants a 'smart' TV...they just want a dumb TV with a phenomenal picture, 120-240Hz, 3D and some good picture control features. They don't want integrated social apps or Samsung apps or even Netflix, etc.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 08:43 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by ziggyonice View Post

This is the future. Hopefully Apple brings it.
That's been the future for the last few years. Netflix, Hulu, iTunes. They've all been attempting to give you a selection of movies and TV shows you can watch any time you want.

Problem is, the content providers are intent on hamstringing them every chance they get. Rupert Murdoch all but butchered Hulu. The studios keep Netflix from streaming the latest movies for months on end. iTunes manages to eek by relatively unscathed because it's not a subscription service. Problem is it's a bit expensive comparatively.

Basically, Apple, Samsung, whoever could come up with the best, easiest, most "it just works" way to get movies and TV shows to some random fancy future-TV a'la carte. But until the content providers get on board, it'll never go anywhere.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
They don't want integrated social apps or Samsung apps or even Netflix, etc.
Actually, I know quite a few people who bought a Samsung SmartTV just for Netflix.

The rest is true, though. Who the hell wants to read Facebook on a TV sitting 15-20 feet away from you? You have tablets and laptops for that.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 08:50 PM   #97
mantan
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
What I'd like out of my TV:

A range of content. Not channels, as we really do not need those anymore. It's out of date and pointless.

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Lets say you watch The Big Bang Theory. Lets say that right now, a new episode is on at 8:00pm every Thursday.

Now, if something like live sport needs to be shown, Big Bang Theory has to be cut, and the episode moves to the following week.

This just seems idiotic.

Make everything on demand. The networks can still release programs at the same time each week, just as an on-demand stream that is only active after a certain time. They can still show ads before/in-between/after (forcefully stopping you skipping them, otherwise no adverts = no content).

This way you just pick your shows from a library, 'bookmark' them and watch as you like.

For live content, a live streaming service would be provided, just for that event. Adverts would then be fed down as part of the stream in the same way current TV services work.

Each TV network would have a section for each show, where you can watch past episodes on demand, again with ads to cover their costs, etc. This would kill DVD/BlueRay sales, but TBH thats going to happen very soon anyway and its an inevitable transition.

Each TV show area could also have exclusive content such as blogs, games, etc specific to the show you love.

Television in its current state needs to die. It's just crap. We dont need channels.

As another option on top of the above. You could buy a 'season pass' to your favorite shows or networks which would make them ad-free. Adverts would only be shown if you are on 'basic'.

This would create an Xbox Live stlye subscription where you have a Gold or Silver tier which gives different benefits. For example on the 'Silver Tier' you may not get access to live sports, but on 'Gold' you would.
This model may have made sense if it was released in a world before DVR's. But if someone can 'Season Pass' a show and skip ads under the 'all you can eat' model, what is the upside to suddenly having to pay a more the higher cost of an 'on demand' model and being force fed ads?

Users may not want channels. But the entertainment industry relies on many made by some shows to bankroll an entire lineup of shows. Cable/Satellite providers rely on certain shows/networks to carry the entire model.

They have no incentive to change unless they can realistically recoup the same revenue.

A la carte sounds great in theory until people start having to make actual purchase decisions. Love Breaking Bad - sure. Love Breaking Bad enough to pay $39.99 to get it on demand - not so sure.

The current Hulu, iTunes, models work because it's basically 'gravy' money for old content.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 10:37 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
That's been the future for the last few years. Netflix, Hulu, iTunes. They've all been attempting to give you a selection of movies and TV shows you can watch any time you want.

Problem is, the content providers are intent on hamstringing them every chance they get. Rupert Murdoch all but butchered Hulu. The studios keep Netflix from streaming the latest movies for months on end. iTunes manages to eek by relatively unscathed because it's not a subscription service. Problem is it's a bit expensive comparatively.

Basically, Apple, Samsung, whoever could come up with the best, easiest, most "it just works" way to get movies and TV shows to some random fancy future-TV a'la carte. But until the content providers get on board, it'll never go anywhere.
The netflix thing annoys me. They have dvds by mail, but it doesn't allow me to immediately choose to watch something at that time. My movie watching habits are pretty random. Itunes rentals work okay. Television episodes are a different thing. TV stations no longer stream them. I believe it ended with the writers dispute on royalties related to material viewed via internet streaming. I'm not sure a'la carte would work the way people think. It might cost significantly more for popular shows if they aren't subsidized by ad content. Obviously if you rely on your cable provider for internet, you will lose any bundling discounts. If they're in the neighborhood of $3 to rent and your internet bill increases, it might not be that great of a deal. It could be easier to find shows you like, but I'm not sure if this would help on the content end. Networks are likely to be even more conservative with the content they approve if margins decline.

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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
The rest is true, though. Who the hell wants to read Facebook on a TV sitting 15-20 feet away from you? You have tablets and laptops for that.
Ever seen back to the future? I'm like the keeper of cheesy references.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:44 PM   #99
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We got so tired of paying our TV content aggregator for the privilege to watch a ridiculously small percentage of what they bundled that we just cut the cord. We put a good antenna in the attic, got a TiVO to time shift, and if a program isn't broadcast we get along without it. There are a ton of people who did this long before we did, but it still feels great.

We'll pay iTunes to rent the occasional movie, but it turns out we're not nearly as addicted as we thought. I really don't find a giant hole in my life without ESPN, which is surprising. We read a lot more, savor the good shows we TiVO, and if Apple offers a la carte, great. But if the industry can't figure out how to sell me only what I think is worth buying, I won't buy anything from the industry.

That kilobuck a year I'm saving will buy us much better experiences.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:51 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by ziggyonice View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

I want time shifting.

I want to be able to watch any show I want. At anytime. Anywhere.

I don't want to have to subscribe to cable for this very reason television companies hate time shifting. They want you to watch TV on their schedule.

I want to subscribe to channels on an a la carte basis. I want to pay a couple bucks per month for an ESPN "app" and a couple others, through my Apple ID. I then want to watch the content live or on-demand, my choice. None of those "package deals" crap. I don't need to pay for 300+ channels I don't watch.

This is the future. Hopefully Apple brings it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul4339 View Post
why bother having ala carte channels when you can have an ala carte content? That is, aren't 'channels' just pre-packaged content that someone else created for you?

Ala carte to me, means that I get to pick and the choose the individual shows/series, the concept of channels don't exist (or is optional).
A la carte programming is much more complicated than people make it out to be. Advertising drives programming and content supports other content. If you moved to an a la carte system you will likely see even less choice, with chances being that the stuff you like will never even make it to production. Production campaniles will take even less risk. There's a reason why there's a deluge of crappy cheap reality programming out there.
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