If you are betting man, odds are we go "over cliff"

[63dot]

There's a lot of posturing but in the end, and these things often get done at the last minute, there will be a deal. Both sides will of course take credit.

There's nothing to be gained from either party digging in their heels and dumping this country into another recession. These last few days, however, are prime for both parties to be talking their ideals and trying to energize their bases.

While it appears that the GOP doesn't care about the middle class according to most in the press, they are not stupid enough to wreck this thing and penalize them lest they lose the House of Representatives in 2014.

While Obama wanted to make the people over $250K pay higher taxes and the GOP wanted that to be 1 million, the compromise Obama wants at $400K probably will get raised in the GOP's favor in the next two days. Deeper cuts on social and entitlement programs will have to happen for the deal and the bias will be slightly in favor of the Republicans. They didn't win the election so any gain in Washington they will get may happen with the final compromise. Boehner will somehow come out smelling like a rose even though most of us here saw the ridiculous inflexibility he has shown in this and his term so far as speaker. 2016 looks grim for the GOP and I wouldn't put it past Boehner and the GOP to make it look like such a republican victory that it will put the speaker in the driver's seat for the GOP nomination. That would be a disaster and make McCain and Romney look like rational choices.

As for the early hero of low taxation, lobbyist Grover Norquist, will lose his much of his influence and have many republicans wondering how they let this little dictator get so much power over so many politicians.

[MacNut]

So it seems that a deal is close, well no new taxes for the middle class, but spending still seems to be a sticking point.

[Ugg]

Originally Posted by MacNut

So it seems that a deal is close, well no new taxes for the middle class, but spending still seems to be a sticking point.

It looks as though Obama wins and the tea party loses.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by Ugg

It looks as though Obama wins and the tea party loses.

It is sounding like the President and the GOP have reached a deal.

[thewitt]

Are you guys paying any attention at all? If you tried to make a deal like this with your bank, they would laugh you out of the room.

All this negotiation and posturing saves $600B over TEN YEARS!

Absurd when deficit spending is twice that EVERY YEAR.

This is totally meaningless political chest beating on both sides. Does NOTHING whatsoever.

It's like me asking you to loan me $200 a week, every week, and promising to pay you back by paying you $10 a week. Would you take that deal?

[Dmunjal]

Originally Posted by Ugg

It looks as though Obama wins and the tea party loses.

Actually, we all lose. A $4T deal was a minimum to get us back on track. This is another kick the can down the road maneuver.

[MadeTheSwitch]

Originally Posted by thewitt

This is totally meaningless political chest beating on both sides. Does NOTHING whatsoever.

It's like me asking you to loan me $200 a week, every week, and promising to pay you back by paying you $10 a week. Would you take that deal?

I agree with you very little in these forums, but on this we totally agree. It is meaningless political chest beating and no one...no one at all should be coming out of this feeling like they "won" something. Taking a year to do something you know you have to do is not winning. Kicking the can down the road is not winning. It's just an example of more dysfunction in the congress.

[MorphingDragon]

The USA is more than likely to go over the fiscal cliff and there isn't a damn thing a tom, dick or harry can do about. Your politicians have the usefulness of gelatinous ooze and the personality of a random number generator.

And in the end, the world suffers because of it.

[throAU]

Originally Posted by zioxide

Take us over the cliff and let the cuts and tax hikes that we desperately need kick in automatically. Then, have the new Congress pass tax cuts for people making under $250,000.

Yes.

The max tax rate here in Australia is 42%.

If you earn above $150,000.

We also have GST of 10%, plus a heap of other taxes.

And we DON'T have anywhere near the same size military per capita, either.

[MorphingDragon]

Originally Posted by throAU

Yes.

The max tax rate here in Australia is 42%.

If you earn above $150,000.

We also have GST of 10%, plus a heap of other taxes.

And we DON'T have anywhere near the same size military per capita, either.

You're also very good at attracting skilled workers despite literally being a desert for the most part.

[throAU]

Originally Posted by MorphingDragon

You're also very good at attracting skilled workers despite literally being a desert for the most part.

It's because wages are pretty high here in comparison.

A starter wage over here is in the order of $28,000-35,000 - a typical wage for someone in medium skilled labour (i.e., office job for a 20-25 year old with a couple of years experience) is probably 50-60k.

There are a LOT of people earning over $100,000 pa (including myself), but we get screwed on prices of things over here to compensate.

However, it does mean as far as the government is concerned:
- lots of people are in the higher tax brackets - most are probably paying 30-42% tax.
- GST, etc is on inflated prices for consumer goods - so that's 10% tax on pretty much everything you buy, which is over-priced.
- fuel excise over here is massive. a litre of gas (1/3 gallon?) is about $1.40 AU (say, $1.50 US). Why? Probably 50% or more of it is tax.

Food is similarly expensive - $1.50 minimum for a loaf of bread, $5-6 for a meal from macdonalds (as an example benchmark), etc.

But, we do have decent food.

Some of the retail pricing over here is retarded. I ride a bike for example, and bought an Akrapovic slipon pipe for it. Local price: $1899, delivery time 3-4 weeks. I paid $600 US, delivered including international postage. It arrived in 8 days.


Also - whilst most of the country's interior is desert, yes - it's more arid scrubland than sandy desert, and most of the settled areas on the coast are not.

This is typical "desert" for example: http://ozthunder.com/travel/kal.jpg

[MorphingDragon]

Originally Posted by throAU

It's because wages are pretty high here in comparison.

A starter wage over here is in the order of $28,000-35,000 - a typical wage for someone in medium skilled labour is probably 50-60k.

There are a LOT of people earning over $100,000 pa (including myself), but we get screwed on prices of things over here to compensate.

However, it does mean as far as the government is concernde:
- lots of people are in the higher tax brackets - most are probably paying 30-42% tax.
- GST, etc is on inflated prices for consumer goods.
- fuel excise over here is massive. a litre of gas (1/3 gallon?) is about $1.40 AU (say, $1.50 US). Why? Probably 50% or more of it is tax.

Food is similarly expensive - $1.50 minimum for a loaf of bread, $5-6 for a meal from macdonalds, etc.

But, we do have decent food.

Some of the retail pricing over here is retarded. I ride a bike for example, and bought an Akrapovic slipon pipe for it. Local price: $1899, delivery time 3-4 weeks. I paid $600 US, delivered including international postage. It arrived in 8 days.


Also - whilst most of the country's interior is desert, yes - it's more arid scrubland than sandy desert, and most of the settled areas on the coast are not.

This is typical "desert" for example: http://ozthunder.com/travel/kal.jpg

When comparing Oil and Food to the US, remember that the US has Oil subsidies and food subsidies in a lot of industries

[throAU]

Originally Posted by MorphingDragon

When comparing Oil and Food to the US, remember that the US has Oil subsidies and food subsidies in local industries.

Sure. But we produce our own oil and food here... more than enough for our own population.

I'm not kidding with the 50% tax on fuel either. Ditto for other things - cigarettes for example, you're talking say $15 per 30 pack.

2 people to go see a movie with 2 drinks and a box of popcorn - $50 thanks....

[MorphingDragon]

Originally Posted by throAU

2 people to go see a movie with 2 drinks and a box of popcorn - $50 thanks....

I wouldn't blame that on your government, when I can buy a movie and refreshment from the supermarket for half the price.

[throAU]

Originally Posted by MorphingDragon

I wouldn't blame that on your government, when I can buy a movie and refreshment from the supermarket for half the price.

Not really laying blame - and yes i can buy those items (other than the movie tickets) for cheaper at a store. However that isn't a night out.

Just providing the picture as to possibly why we're a first world economy that ISN'T totally fubar at the moment, when our culture isn't drastically different from that in the USA or the UK, even though we don't have the benefit of having the reserve currency - which SHOULD be a competitive advantage for your economy.


The tax revenue our government receives per person over here is MUCH, much more than you are likely paying over there in the states. One reason is due to the higher rates. Another is due to the higher incomes for much of the population, and a third reason is due to the tax on higher priced goods.

The core of the issue in the states is that the government is spending more than it brings in, in tax revenue, every year. They need to sort that out, and whatever the big corporations are saying, increasing tax revenue is probably required.

[MorphingDragon]

Originally Posted by throAU

However that isn't a night out.

Don't you know, all the cool kids don't go to the movies anymore.

[throAU]

Originally Posted by MorphingDragon

Don't you know, all the cool kids don't go to the movies anymore.

It was an example... you're kinda missing the point.

[GermanyChris]

We could use a but higher gas prices, and to pay a little more for our junk consumption also

[Bug-Creator]

Originally Posted by throAU

Just providing the picture as to possibly why we're a first world economy that ISN'T totally fubar at the moment,

A few years back I saw a docu that described the australian economy as "Kongo + political stability - 90% people" and I think thats not so far from the truth. Take away all export-profits from mining and you can see the aussi-$ and economy tumbling.

When that docu ran it piece from an iron-ore mine you could clearly see why, all the heavy machines labelled "O&K", "Terex" or "Caterpillar" either come from the US or about 30km from where I live Add in a few pieces made in Japan or South-Korea but thats it.

The prices you've mentioned aren't really that different from what I pay here in € but thats really pointless if you don't consider exchange rates. Which is kinda impossible atm as all major exchange rates have failed to reflect the real values for years. Something I could see rather extremly on my recent visit to Switzerland, prices are insane when convertad back to € but so are wages, all while the economies of Switzerland and Germany aren't that different.....

[MorphingDragon]

Originally Posted by throAU

It was an example... you're kinda missing the point.

That was a joke. Apparently a bad one.