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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:11 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherJesus View Post
You mean, like, "Windows"?

The word(s) "app" or "app store" never before passed your lips until Apple made you say it.
Actually, it was Handango that made me say it. Years before Apple was even on my radar. Back when they were a near-bankrupt shell of a company.

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Originally Posted by Ay_Zimmy View Post
I mean Apple did invent apps and the app store. They should at least get to keep the name.
Apple also invented the icon and the mouse. Touchscreens too.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.

Even if what you said were true, it would be irrelevant. There is no requirement under Trademark law that the use be by major companies in the relevant industry.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:50 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Apple would require time to establish secondary meaning. It's not just something that pops up as soon as a vendor uses a descriptive phrase. Has Apple really achieved secondary meaning ?

Frankly, I don't think so. In 2008, it was called the iTunes App Store for one, not just plain App Store and over time, people never really just associated it with Apple once the term was out there. The thing is, nothing was called a plain descriptive App Store before Apple used it.
And therein lies the big problem for Apple (in my opinion) because people don't say I'm going to get that from the app store. They say I'm going to get it from iTunes. Or I just downloaded this app from iTunes. Did you see that new app on iTunes?

iTunes is what has become ubiquitous for the (Apple) App Store.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:46 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by reefoid View Post
And in Windows, right click any exe file, select Properties and what does it say the file type is - Application. So your point is?
"APPlication" is a description of an EXEcutable file that Windows refers to in every other aspect as a PROGram.

My point is that nitpicking about file system naming conventions that are under the hood so to speak and an OS consistently running APPlications while their closest competitor OS has always run PROGrams are competely different, irrelevant to each other and always will be!

EVERY platform starting with mobile OSs and now with recent desktop OS versions (Windows 8) suddenly started refering to software as APPs only AFTER Apple came out with the iPhone.

It's become so standard since Apple popularised the term with the iPhone and it's marketing that these days "APP" is akin to calling sticky tape Sellotape and I think that's how Amazon etc... are getting away with it.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:50 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barkmonster View Post

EVERY platform starting with mobile OSs and now with recent desktop OS versions (Windows 8) suddenly started refering to software as APPs only AFTER Apple came out with the iPhone.
Another poster that hasn't read the thread?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:54 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by barkmonster View Post
EVERY platform starting with mobile OSs and now with recent desktop OS versions (Windows 8) suddenly started refering to software as APPs only AFTER Apple came out with the iPhone.
Any thing to back your claim or it is only ignorance from your part?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:54 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".

I find it weird that a diminutive of a generic term is necessarily considered a generic term as well, even if nobody used the term. By the same logic, you couldn't have a trademark on something like "Mus Store" or "Boo Store". Meanwhile, it's OK for Microsoft to trademark terms like "Windows", "Office", "Word".

EDIT:

Okay, I did some research like macsmurf suggested.

Wikipedia:
In recent years, the term "app" has been used to exclusively refer to applications for mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, referring to their smaller scope in relation to applications used by PCs.

There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.

People started to refer to computer/mobile software as "apps" after Apple's App store, not before.

The only exception I can find is the term "Killer app", but like I said earlier, it has a different meaning. It's also the diminutive of "application", but you wouldn't use the term in the same context. For example, you could say that "X video game" is a console's "killer app". However, would you refer to console games as "apps"? I don't think anybody would, because it doesn't fit with the modern definition of "app" which Apple is responsible for.

Halo was the Xbox's killer app.
You wouldn't say "let's go to Gamestop preorder this app called Halo".
Points well made.

With some of APPLE's recent courtroom losses, they must feel like a beleaguered company and are probably garnering some under-dog sympathy.

Last edited by macs4nw; Jan 3, 2013 at 08:00 AM.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:39 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barkmonster View Post
EVERY platform starting with mobile OSs and now with recent desktop OS versions (Windows 8) suddenly started refering to software as APPs only AFTER Apple came out with the iPhone.
Have you even read the thread where people have posted some darn calculators from 1998 with a "APPS" button or are you just now trying to makes things worse by arguing this ridiculous point that's been debunked again and again ?

Anyway, we've been doing WebAPPS on a LAMP stack since the late 90s.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by macs4nw View Post
Points well made.
What is it with the influx of posters who haven't read the thread or even understand what this is about ?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:54 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barkmonster View Post
"APPlication" is a description of an EXEcutable file that Windows refers to in every other aspect as a PROGram.

My point is that nitpicking about file system naming conventions that are under the hood so to speak and an OS consistently running APPlications while their closest competitor OS has always run PROGrams are competely different, irrelevant to each other and always will be!
<snip>
Could you please educate me why in the early iOS days - you know those days when I actually used an iPhone and that OS wasn't even called iOS - the almighty Steve himself

...purposefully used the following Mantra...

killer app is making calls

And rewatch: WWDC 2007 keynote at 1:15:00 and on (yes - that was the time when 1 hour was dedicated to Mac OS X) Maybe you realize, that the first year of iPhone was Webapps only.

Just get over the fact that Apple didn't coin the word application, nor the abbreviation App. Or go over here:

Term Killer App
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:02 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
.....What is it with the influx of posters who haven't read the thread or even understand what this is about ?
I was commenting on the first three paragraphs of pgiguere1's post, and truth be told, no, I hadn't read those posts you quoted, nor had I personally ever heard the term APP's or APP store, before APPLE started using them, but if these terms were in use before then, I stand corrected.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:24 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Apple has got to stop filing these ******** IP claims. It is bad for their image.

They are widely known now for their abuse of the legal system, and taxpayers are pissed that so much tax money is being wasted by Apple bringing these ******** lawsuits.

And this one ain't even the worst example of Apple's ******** filings against other companies.
What's gets me is how people get so ******* bent out of shape over things that don't even concern them, really.

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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:25 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macs4nw View Post
I was commenting on the first three paragraphs of pgiguere1's post, and truth be told, no, I hadn't read those posts you quoted, nor had I personally ever heard the term APP's or APP store, before APPLE started using them, but if these terms were in use before then, I stand corrected.
You've really never heard of Google Apps?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:29 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macsmurf View Post
You've really never heard of Google Apps?
Or Web apps for that matter. I'm starting to think most people here saying "Apps came with iPhone!" are the proverbial "average Joe!" they claim only found out that Application was shortened to App in 2008 when Apple did launch the iTunes App Store and its famous slogan : "There's an app for that".
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:56 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Whether "App Store" should be trademarkable or not is another question, but there's no doubt that the term "App" wasn't used at all before Apple's App Store.

Microsoft didn't even call Windows software "applications", they had always called them "programs".

I find it weird that a diminutive of a generic term is necessarily considered a generic term as well, even if nobody used the term. By the same logic, you couldn't have a trademark on something like "Mus Store" or "Boo Store". Meanwhile, it's OK for Microsoft to trademark terms like "Windows", "Office", "Word".
I don't know, I always called Mac programs as applications or apps. Even before OS X came along.
And I called Windows programs as apps sometimes as well.

PS. I don't think MS has trademarked Windows or Office or Word just like that I think they are part of name. Like Windows XP would be a trademark but Windows would not.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:57 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by OtherJesus View Post
You mean, like, "Windows"?
So I have literal "windows" in my computer? Made of glass and everything? I never knew.

How do people consider this similar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherJesus View Post
The word(s) "app" or "app store" never before passed your lips until Apple made you say it.
And there's a statement with no backing whatsoever. You've been following me around my whole life? BTW, you're wrong.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:00 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Okay, I did some research like you suggested.

Wikipedia:
In recent years, the term "app" has been used to exclusively refer to applications for mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, referring to their smaller scope in relation to applications used by PCs.

There may be some anecdotal use of the term "app" before the iPhone (none of which I can easily find using Google, point me in the right direction if you can), but never was it a standard term used by any major tech company.

People started to refer to computer/mobile software as "apps" after Apple's App store, not before.

The only exception I can find is the term "Killer app", but like I said earlier, it has a different meaning. It's also the diminutive of "application", but you wouldn't use the term in the same context. For example, you could say that "X video game" is a console's "killer app". However, would you refer to console games as "apps"? I don't think anybody would, because it doesn't fit with the modern definition of "app" which Apple is responsible for.

Halo was the Xbox's killer app.
You wouldn't say "let's go to Gamestop preorder this app called Halo".
I wouldn't call any game I get from the App Store and app.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:00 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Jetson View Post
What's gets me is how people get so ******* bent out of shape over things that don't even concern them, really.

It's foolish to think this doesn't concern you. Your tax dollars pay for the courts they fight these battles in.

(Assuming you're a tax paying US resident)
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:04 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
So I have literal "windows" in my computer? Made of glass and everything? I never knew.

How do people consider this similar?



And there's a statement with no backing whatsoever. You've been following me around my whole life? BTW, you're wrong.
But Apple MADE you say it. Because they have complete control over your thoughts and actions. Resistance is futile!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geckotek View Post
It's foolish to think this doesn't concern you. Your tax dollars pay for the courts they fight these battles in.

(Assuming you're a tax paying US resident)
Not this one, but plenty of Apple lawsuits are around the globe. But I know you know that and get what you're saying...
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:07 AM   #218
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I'd also like to add that comparing trademarking Windows and App Store is like comparing apples and oranges.

If Microsoft trademarked "computer" then just...no.

Anyway, I believe Windows is not even a trademark.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:25 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Microsoft doesn't have a trademark of the word windows
Tell that to Lindows...
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:27 AM   #220
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Tell that to Lindows...
Did you know what happened? Perhaps I have to tell Lindows that they won the trials and Microsoft had to settle out court for $20 million and buy the Lindows trademark
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:38 AM   #221
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Did you know what happened? Perhaps I have to tell Lindows that they won the trials and Microsoft had to settle out court for $20 million and buy the Lindows trademark
Your remark does not address the point I was making: Microsoft owns a trademark on the word Windows. You, who has never heard of Google, said they didn't.

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Old Jan 3, 2013, 10:48 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Kludge420 View Post
Your remark does not address the point I was making: Microsoft owns a trademark on the word Windows. Some member that has never heard of Google said they didn't.
Microsoft has a trademark on the words Microsoft Windows

Last edited by dejo; Jan 3, 2013 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 11:05 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Kludge420 View Post
Your remark does not address the point I was making: Microsoft owns a trademark on the word Windows. Some member that has never heard of Google said they didn't.
And this has absolutely nothing to do with the App Store trademark. App Store is descriptive, not merely a generic word like Windows, unless you're implying Microsoft sells panes of glass.

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Originally Posted by Kludge420 View Post
Tell that to Lindows...
You mean the guys that came so close to winning in court that Microsoft paid them to change the name of the product ? I don't think that case actually supports your point. You should read how it concluded ...
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Last edited by dejo; Jan 3, 2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Quoted post edited.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 11:37 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Another poster that hasn't read the thread?
I certainly have to be replying to it and all I see are a lot of nonsense about abreviations on old PDAs or people refering to obscure folders in the file system of non Apple OSs.

The issue is that Apple have a LONG history of running APPlications on their platforms and they created the APP Store based on that familiarity. The early iPhone ran the equivalent of Mac OS X widgets, not even full blown software but they were still refered to as APPs and as iOS evolved, APPs became full blown software.

It's no coincidence that Windows 8 has APPs not PROGrams like ALL PREVIOUS VERSIONS and other mobile platforms evolved to also run APPs, following Apple's lead, not innovating and coming up with their own term because it's so connected with the industry, it keeps features consistently named across platforms but they can't say they're not immitating Apple and neither can any other rational person with the facts easily available on a search engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Any thing to back your claim or it is only ignorance from your part?
Observance on my part, arrogance on yours for claiming that!
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 11:49 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by barkmonster View Post
Observance on my part, arrogance on yours for claiming that!
So, you don't have anything to back your claim.

Windows XP came before or after the iPhone?
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