Go Back   MacRumors Forums > iPhone, iPod and iPad > iOS > Jailbreaks and iOS Hacks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jan 3, 2013, 12:58 PM   #76
Vizin
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
.

Last edited by Vizin; Feb 28, 2013 at 01:58 AM.
Vizin is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3, 2013, 02:49 PM   #77
dinggus
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizin View Post
As a developer, all I want from Apple is some sort of receipt system so I can deny online services to people who pirate my apps.

I don't care that my apps can be pirated. Someone who pirates a $1 app is either just trying it out or probably wouldn't buy it anyway, so I don't see it as lost revenue.

But some of my apps have web-based services, which take server resources. When pirates use these services, it costs me money. I wish there was a way for the app to send a purchase confirmation number to the server, which I can then check against Apple's server. They provide this exact service for in-app purchases, why not for the app itself?
Intelliborn company does that, don't they?
dinggus is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:03 PM   #78
Gizmotoy
macrumors 6502a
 
Gizmotoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizin View Post
As a developer, all I want from Apple is some sort of receipt system so I can deny online services to people who pirate my apps.

I don't care that my apps can be pirated. Someone who pirates a $1 app is either just trying it out or probably wouldn't buy it anyway, so I don't see it as lost revenue.

But some of my apps have web-based services, which take server resources. When pirates use these services, it costs me money. I wish there was a way for the app to send a purchase confirmation number to the server, which I can then check against Apple's server. They provide this exact service for in-app purchases, why not for the app itself?
Workaround: Make app free, charge for service through an IAP?

I've been away for awhile, but when I was developing there was a new process for verifying the legitimacy of an app by checking a certificate stored in the app bundle. Did that never end up happening, or did it get circumvented by Installous?

There used to be a handful of ways to detect a pirated copy without creating a false-positive for paid versions that reside on jailbroken devices.

I agree, though, Apple should have done something about this 3 years ago. The fact that it's still a problem shows how little they care.
Gizmotoy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 3, 2013, 11:28 PM   #79
thewitt
macrumors 68000
 
thewitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizin View Post
I don't care that my apps can be pirated. Someone who pirates a $1 app is either just trying it out or probably wouldn't buy it anyway, so I don't see it as lost revenue.
You should see it as lost revenue. It's costing the industry hundreds of millions in revenue today.
thewitt is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 4, 2013, 12:08 AM   #80
Vizin
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
.

Last edited by Vizin; Feb 28, 2013 at 01:58 AM.
Vizin is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 4, 2013, 04:30 AM   #81
Brian Y
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizin View Post
I implemented a basic anti-piracy system once. For a few weeks piracy stopped entirely, but sales didn't go up at all.

If piracy causes lost revenue, shouldn't blocking piracy have increased sales?

I'm sure some people would purchase an app if they couldn't pirate it. But really, if you're pirating a 99 cent app to avoid paying for it, you're the ultimate cheapskate. Some people might do it, but saying every illegal download is one lost sale is ridiculous.
He comes in saying the same thing on every piracy thread

I'm not pro-piracy, but a pirated copy doesn't equal a lost sale, and if you need to use piracy to justify lower than expected sales figures, you have other much bigger problems.
Brian Y is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 4, 2013, 12:05 PM   #82
seanwebb68
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
You should see it as lost revenue. It's costing the industry hundreds of millions in revenue today.
I disagree with the above statement because i have friends that download films and when i go to theirs the only ones i will ever watch are the ones that i would never ever think about watch in the cinema, rental or buying the DVD, so in my case that is not true. Matter of fact some of the films i have liked and gone out and brought on DVD so they have gained money from me.
(Not trying to say what i have done is right but just stating the facts)

Where as films that i think i would like i buy or use my cinema pass which entitles me to go to any showing for 14.99 a month.... and there has been many times i have regretted it and thought you know what i should have just watched that at my mates because its was rubbish and has wasted my evening.

At the end of the day people will do what they like so the best way to solve these issues is to make the service easy to use as cheap as possible without losing money, listen to the customer and STOP ADVERTISING ALL THESE SERVICE THAT ALLOW YOU TO PIRATE STUFF because most of my friends didn't even know about them till they were all over the news/internet.
seanwebb68 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5, 2013, 12:43 AM   #83
lokerd
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beaumont
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketAppZ View Post
Personally, I'd rather use AppShopper and grab the good ones when they go free for a limited time.
Part of my daily routine is to check AppShopper for what is free each day.

As for pirated apps, I have JB LOTS of devices, for both me and other people. None of them use any illegal apps. I don't even tell people for whom I help them JB their device that there is even such a thing. I just set up their device with the MUST have tweaks to make an iOS useful and not a PITA!
__________________
Drew -- About Me
Add your great accessory here - iPad Accessories

Last edited by lokerd; Jan 5, 2013 at 11:53 AM.
lokerd is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:21 AM   #84
Dr Sam Beckett
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
yayay piracy ethics doesnt get discussed enough on here already
Dr Sam Beckett is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:02 AM   #85
thehustleman
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Piracy is going to happen, period.

Companies should stop wasting time and money trying to prevent it and just put that money into their product development or in their employees hands.

Waste all that time developing anti piracy measures and before you know it, it's been circumvented.

Money ends up being a waste
thehustleman is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5, 2013, 11:26 AM   #86
thewitt
macrumors 68000
 
thewitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
Piracy is going to happen, period.

Companies should stop wasting time and money trying to prevent it and just put that money into their product development or in their employees hands.

Waste all that time developing anti piracy measures and before you know it, it's been circumvented.

Money ends up being a waste
Spoken like a true pirate.

Piracy can be avoided if you are persistent and understand the techniques necessary to thwart it.

Developers do need to keep bugging Apple for a receipt system that ties a purchase to a specific set of hardware addresses in an iTunes account, but until that happens it can still be stopped with some effort.

It is worth doing, and can be measured in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue for a popular app.
thewitt is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5, 2013, 04:24 PM   #87
Brian Y
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
Spoken like a true pirate.

Piracy can be avoided if you are persistent and understand the techniques necessary to thwart it.

Developers do need to keep bugging Apple for a receipt system that ties a purchase to a specific set of hardware addresses in an iTunes account, but until that happens it can still be stopped with some effort.

It is worth doing, and can be measured in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue for a popular app.
So name one popular application that has done this successfully so far.

Adobe Suite - No.
Microsoft Windows - No.
Microsoft Office - No.
Logic/Final Cut - No.

I could keep going for hours, but I won't.

If a human can make it, a human can break it. Personally, as I explained in that other long ass piracy thread - it's much better to monetize piracy, than to waste resources trying to stop it. And no doubt because of this you'll accuse me of being a pirate - I'm not. I'm actually a developer, but I'm not a developer who buries my head in the sand, or believes in massively deflated sales figures due to piracy.

Why do you think Apple has always had such lax anti-piracy methods in their software? They'd rather spend that money developing features and making people better for the people that DO buy the app. Instead of trying to thwart pirates who will pirate anyway, depriving genuine customers of features that could have been developed with the cash spent on deterring pirates.
Brian Y is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6, 2013, 01:49 AM   #88
cclloyd
macrumors 68000
 
cclloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Alpha Centauri A
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
Piracy is going to happen, period.

Companies should stop wasting time and money trying to prevent it and just put that money into their product development or in their employees hands.

Waste all that time developing anti piracy measures and before you know it, it's been circumvented.

Money ends up being a waste
Piracy CAN be stopped. Garmin managed to make their app pirate-proof, so it can be done.

And usually (at least from software that has multiple people working on it) they will have a separate person or division handling the piracy aspect of the software.
__________________
iPhone 5 Sprint w/ iOS 7.0.4 Jailbroken
iPad mini Retina w/ iOS 7.0.4 Jailbroken
MacBook Pro Retina Early 2013
cclloyd is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6, 2013, 02:13 AM   #89
thewitt
macrumors 68000
 
thewitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
He comes in saying the same thing on every piracy thread

I'm not pro-piracy, but a pirated copy doesn't equal a lost sale, and if you need to use piracy to justify lower than expected sales figures, you have other much bigger problems.
You are wrong, and our own sales figures refute your supposition.

We have had apps cracked, and sales drop off dramatically. We logged device identification information and then tied this back to purchases of the app once we forced an upgrade and stopped the ability to crack and run the app.

Sales increased, and many of the users who once ran the cracker version purchased the real version.

Piracy absolutely results in lost sales, and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply mistaken.
thewitt is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6, 2013, 04:17 AM   #90
TriJetHero
macrumors 601
 
TriJetHero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: World
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
You are wrong, and our own sales figures refute your supposition.

We have had apps cracked, and sales drop off dramatically. We logged device identification information and then tied this back to purchases of the app once we forced an upgrade and stopped the ability to crack and run the app.

Sales increased, and many of the users who once ran the cracker version purchased the real version.

Piracy absolutely results in lost sales, and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply mistaken.
i'm sure you are right, but it won't be a 100% recovery rate, as you have the actual figures how many of the cracked app users did eventually buy the official app?
__________________
iPhone 6 iOS 8.1.1 TaiG
iPhone 5 iOS 8.1.1 TaiG
iPad 4 3G iOS 7.1.2 Stock
iPad 2 WIFI iOS 8.0 GM
TriJetHero is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:41 AM   #91
Brian Y
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
You are wrong, and our own sales figures refute your supposition.

We have had apps cracked, and sales drop off dramatically. We logged device identification information and then tied this back to purchases of the app once we forced an upgrade and stopped the ability to crack and run the app.

Sales increased, and many of the users who once ran the cracker version purchased the real version.

Piracy absolutely results in lost sales, and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply mistaken.
No, I am not wrong. And if you are justifying your product's poor performance by blaming piracy, then you have serious problems with it and/or your business model that you need to address. Developing software is a business, and in business, you need to take into account, and deal with, risks.

I'll bet you any money that you spent more developing the massive anti-piracu solution, than you collected in profit from converted pirates. You're never going to recover that much money - pirates will just find an alternative (and lets face it, if the likes of MS/Adobe can't do it with their massive financial buckets).

I monetized them in other ways - such as not limiting functionality, but displaying a permanent reminded to buy the app if you like it. That, and selling support tickets to pirated users - one support ticket is more than enough to offset the functional development cost of a product.
Brian Y is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6, 2013, 09:29 AM   #92
Xb0xGuru
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
many of the users who once ran the cracker version purchased the real version.
Which actually condones piracy - well done.
Xb0xGuru is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6, 2013, 10:22 AM   #93
nepalisherpa
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
Piracy is going to happen, period.

Companies should stop wasting time and money trying to prevent it and just put that money into their product development or in their employees hands.

Waste all that time developing anti piracy measures and before you know it, it's been circumvented.

Money ends up being a waste
What a logic! "Thieves are going to steal from your house...so, stop trying to buy alarms/locks, and instead, put that money into buying better stuff or give it to your family members."
__________________
Macbook Air 11" 2013/i7/8GB RAM/250GB SSD
iPhone 6+ 64GB Space Gray
nepalisherpa is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 6, 2013, 11:01 AM   #94
thehustleman
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by nepalisherpa View Post
What a logic! "Thieves are going to steal from your house...so, stop trying to buy alarms/locks, and instead, put that money into buying better stuff or give it to your family members."
Terrible analogy.

Piracy isn't really stealing. It's copying.

When something is stolen, you no longer have it, when something is pirated, you both have it.

You steal someone's stuff from their home they don't have what they paid for any more - totally different concept.

Also alarms are pointless. By the time the alarm company calls the homeowner, the police, the dispatcher dispatches the police, the cops travel to get there, the crooks are long gone.


With piracy, it's a waste of money to continuously fight it.

You put copy protection on an app, you spend r&d dollars on it, time, manpower, then a week-a month later some brilliant hacker circumvents your methods making it available to all.

You find another way after spending even more, a month later it's hacked and you then have wasted all your money and time that could have been spent improving things got those that do pay.

The cycle continues on and on

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewitt View Post
Spoken like a true pirate.

Piracy can be avoided if you are persistent and understand the techniques necessary to thwart it.

Developers do need to keep bugging Apple for a receipt system that ties a purchase to a specific set of hardware addresses in an iTunes account, but until that happens it can still be stopped with some effort.

It is worth doing, and can be measured in hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue for a popular app.
No, it can't be stopped because as hard as someone works to prevent it, give it a month and someone else has a way to break it making that money spent totally wasted.

Lol at the Xbox 360- they would change the way the games were done breaking old methods of piracy, but not even a week later a replacement method was in place.

Even Nintendo and Sony had to deal with it.

Sony even bragged that the ps3 was hack proof as Microsoft had done with Windoze 7.
Hackers keep proving them wrong
thehustleman is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:54 AM   #95
nepalisherpa
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
Terrible analogy.

Piracy isn't really stealing. It's copying.

When something is stolen, you no longer have it, when something is pirated, you both have it.

You steal someone's stuff from their home they don't have what they paid for any more - totally different concept.

Also alarms are pointless. By the time the alarm company calls the homeowner, the police, the dispatcher dispatches the police, the cops travel to get there, the crooks are long gone.


With piracy, it's a waste of money to continuously fight it.

You put copy protection on an app, you spend r&d dollars on it, time, manpower, then a week-a month later some brilliant hacker circumvents your methods making it available to all.

You find another way after spending even more, a month later it's hacked and you then have wasted all your money and time that could have been spent improving things got those that do pay.

The cycle continues on and on

----------



No, it can't be stopped because as hard as someone works to prevent it, give it a month and someone else has a way to break it making that money spent totally wasted.

Lol at the Xbox 360- they would change the way the games were done breaking old methods of piracy, but not even a week later a replacement method was in place.

Even Nintendo and Sony had to deal with it.

Sony even bragged that the ps3 was hack proof as Microsoft had done with Windoze 7.
Hackers keep proving them wrong
A crime's a crime!
__________________
Macbook Air 11" 2013/i7/8GB RAM/250GB SSD
iPhone 6+ 64GB Space Gray
nepalisherpa is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 2013, 01:26 PM   #96
Goldmansachs
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowLeopard2008 View Post
The main reason for root access on Android is to install custom ROMs. The main reason for root access/jailbreak on iOS is pirated apps. By main, I mean 50%+ of people who do such things.

Apple won't allow jailbreaks. Ever.
If I were to abritrarily assign a percentage that relates to jailbreakers, I would say: 50% of people who jailbreak their phones do it for cosmetic reasons.
Goldmansachs is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:27 PM   #97
Jsansai
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Lol. Amazing how some people essentially think "once a pirate, always a pirate". I admit to using Installous and have tried many apps from it before... but it has saved me several dollars in the long run. I didn't save money in the sense that I kept the app and didn't bother to actually buy it, but I saved money by knowing which apps I really did like. For instance, I tried Angry Birds through Installous because I was considering purchasing on the App Store, and wanted a little more than the "lite" version. Turns out I didn't enjoy it as much as I did, so what did I do? Delete it.
I also tried the Sleep Cycle Alarm Clock. which I loved. So with the credit I had from a gift card on my iTunes account, I bought the app. Lol, I ended up spending $1 instead of $2, by trying Angry Birds to see how I felt about the app. Okay, I only saved a dollar. So what? Not all of us are well off and have high paying jobs. A dollar could easily get me a different app that I may enjoy or a small meal.
Jsansai is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:50 PM   #98
gotluck
macrumors 68040
 
gotluck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: East Central Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowLeopard2008 View Post
Another thing, it's much easier to hack into a jailbroken device than one in "Apple's jail", even if you have changed the root password and other security measures people sometimes take after jailbreaking. That jail is protecting you from the malware and other malicious stuff that plagues Android. Speaking as someone who knows a great deal about computer security. So while you get the ability to tweak your device, install apps both pirated and not, install themes and other customizations, you give up security. Some find it worth it, some (like myself) don't.
Not trying to rehash pirating here - do you have any sources on any malware effecting iOS, jailbroken or not, actually happening?

I don't see the same security risk you feel is there. Sure, it may be theoretically less secure, but I have never heard of any cases of it in practice, online or otherwise.
__________________
iPad Air LTE 8.1.2 JB (T-Mobile) - GS 4 Google Edition 5.0.0 (AT&T) - Windows 7 PC's - PS4
gotluck is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:56 PM   #99
guitarmandp
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cclloyd9785 View Post
Piracy CAN be stopped. Garmin managed to make their app pirate-proof, so it can be done.

And usually (at least from software that has multiple people working on it) they will have a separate person or division handling the piracy aspect of the software.
Hahaha. I paid like fifty bucks for this app. I wonder how many people are buying this app now that Google Maps has voice navigation
guitarmandp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 7, 2013, 08:17 PM   #100
MacRumorUser
macrumors Demi-God
 
MacRumorUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilehaathi View Post
Your first assertion is speculation and difficult to prove. It is a disservice to characterize jailbrakers as pirates.
However its also an undeniable fact that all iOS pirates do indeed Jailbreak.
__________________
A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
MacRumor:User
Microsoft MVP : Macintosh
MacRumorUser is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > iPhone, iPod and iPad > iOS > Jailbreaks and iOS Hacks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do I shut her off? tawcat Apple TV and Home Theater 4 May 28, 2014 03:36 PM
Shut down problems... mythree MacBook Pro 8 May 7, 2013 08:39 AM
Shut Down robo44 iMac 1 Feb 12, 2013 09:42 AM
no shut down Cristina19 Mac Basics and Help 3 Dec 28, 2012 02:51 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC