Lawrence Hunter Explains the 2nd Amendment

[skunk]

Originally Posted by quasinormal

IMO those suggesting gun ownership is necessary against the possibility of government tyranny is guilty of treason and should be shot with their own weapons.

Attractive though the idea might be, wouldn't that be the ultimate expression of tyrannical government?

[Renzatic]

And would in turn completely justify the second amendment.

[citizenzen]

Originally Posted by quasinormal

This is literally one god damned stupid thread and in monumentally poor taste given recent events.

Good taste rarely stops a thread or post in PRSI.

I frankly wouldn't enjoy it here as much if it did.

Originally Posted by quasinormal

IMO those suggesting gun ownership is necessary against the possibility of government tyranny is guilty of treason and should be shot with their own weapons.

As misguided as those people may be, I certainly would not agree to your suggestion. It's a commonly held belief in a nation that embraces force and violence ... along the lines of another commonly held foolish belief: We owe our freedom to all the wars we've fought.

While it's a pretty twisted mindset, the best solution doesn't involve even more shooting. There's enough of that going around as it is.

[Chundles]

Originally Posted by skunk

The tactical nukes would be be positioned to attract impulse buyers, then? I like your thinking

Yep, at the checkout and the ends of the aisles.

There would also be specially marked "Tactical Nuke-free" checkouts for parents to go through with kids so they don't get bugged to buy a nuke for the trip home in the car.

[hulugu]

Originally Posted by Chundles

Yep, at the checkout and the ends of the aisles.

There would also be specially marked "Tactical Nuke-free" checkouts for parents to go through with kids so they don't get bugged to buy a nuke for the trip home in the car.

I buy MIRVs at CostCo. It's cheaper than tactical nukes and fun to figure out which ones are the decoys and which ones are real. Sometimes though you get a batch of conventional warheads and then you end up with piles of tungsten rods all over the house.

[Chundles]

Originally Posted by hulugu

I buy MIRVs at CostCo. It's cheaper than tactical nukes and fun to figure out which ones are the decoys and which ones are real. Sometimes though you get a batch of conventional warheads and then you end up with piles of tungsten rods all over the house.

Got any swaps?

[NickZac]

Originally Posted by MadeTheSwitch

You avoid places that you feel you would need a gun to be safe, but yet you have a gun in your house in order to feel safe? I am not understanding this logic.

I could just as easily extend that thinking out to anyone feeling the need for a gun in any room of the house. And that they too should start looking for a nicer neighborhood. I am not sure why needing a gun with you in the bathroom is bad, but needing it in the bedroom or wherever you store it is good. Can't a home invasion happen just as easily while you are in the shower as opposed to sitting on the couch?

Another thing I thought of along the babysitter lines I had yesterday are family visits. Lots of parents let their kids go stay with Grandma or have Grandma come over and watch the kids. So, unless she is a rifle toting granny, I guess that's all out, right? More examples of how this fear based logic doesn't give people more freedom, it gives them less.

I can avoid going places I feel I would need a carry a firearm on me in person to feel safe. I can't avoid if someone decides to come into my house. I would advise any homeowner to take all reasonable precaution to avoid it ever coming to that. Theft deterrence is a very real thing and a responsible homeowner will consider all of that. But if someone comes into my house despite that, I will make every effort to not escalate the situation to one of force, but not at the expense of wellbeing of myself or those in my presence. This is why gun laws exist. I don't know how I could explain it any better. If you do not understand that logic, than perhaps I just stink at logic explanation.

If someone wants to keep a gun in every room of their house, they have that right to do so. To me, that sounds rather excessive and rather expensive, but what do I know? And there are many grannys who are packing... Someone who is older, possibly frail, and may live alone is arguably more vulnerable to criminals. Legal firearm ownership can offset that. You could have granny, the only person protecting your young kids with a phone screaming "I've got police coming!" or with a .357 Magnum screaming "get the **** out or I shoot!". Which do you think is going to deter someone?

[skunk]

Originally Posted by NickZac

You could have granny, the only person protecting your young kids with a phone screaming "I've got police coming!" or with a .357 Magnum screaming "get the **** out or I shoot!". Which do you think is going to deter someone?

Depends on how good a shot granny is, I suppose.

[Mord]

Originally Posted by NickZac

You could have granny, the only person protecting your young kids with a phone screaming "I've got police coming!" or with a .357 Magnum screaming "get the **** out or I shoot!". Which do you think is going to deter someone?

I wouldn't want said granny looking after any child with a gun in the house.

I also prefer living in a society where both burglars and homeowners do not typically have guns.

[hulugu]

Originally Posted by NickZac

...You could have granny, the only person protecting your young kids with a phone screaming "I've got police coming!" or with a .357 Magnum screaming "get the **** out or I shoot!". Which do you think is going to deter someone?

Is Granny with a Magnum the sequel to Hobo with a Shotgun?

[CalWizrd]

Originally Posted by skunk

Depends on how good a shot granny is, I suppose.

If you're the one intruding on granny and the kids, are you going to hang around to see if granny is a good shot or not?

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by CalWizrd

If you're the one intruding on granny and the kids, are you going to hang around to see if granny is a good shot or not?

So, the answer is to give everyone fake guns that look real!!

Frankly, I'd rather my granny let my dogs after them than have her waving a gun around my children. But, hey, maybe I'm old fashioned.

[skunk]

I like the spin-off, Babysitter with a hand-held tactical nuclear weapon. Higher body count.

[elistan]

Originally Posted by NickZac

Someone who is older, possibly frail, and may live alone is arguably more vulnerable to criminals. Legal firearm ownership can offset that. You could have granny, the only person protecting your young kids with a phone screaming "I've got police coming!" or with a .357 Magnum screaming "get the **** out or I shoot!". Which do you think is going to deter someone?

My granny turned 90 last year and has heart issues and a bit of trouble getting around. A gun in the nightstand, for example, would do no good if she's in the living room or bathroom. I'd feel better if she had a canister or two of pepper spray stashed in each room, so she can get to it easily. (I heard this from a female friend - she said some safety training she did recommended pepper spray in each room. In the living room, in the bathroom next to the shower, in the bedroom on the night stand, next to the front door, etc., so that a bit of self-defense is always readily available. Much cheaper than purchasing a dozen handguns, I guess, and less likely to accidentally kill anybody.)

On the other hand, if my granny had spent a significant portion of her life as a member of a well-regulated militia, with drills and training, had an up-to-date shooting qualification, and constantly carried while home I suppose she could be effective against an intruder...?

[NickZac]

Originally Posted by skunk

Depends on how good a shot granny is, I suppose.

Agreed. I mean, it is personal preference. And of course not all granny's (or people of any age) should own a firearm so it varies person-to-person. When someone develops some of the memory impairment(s) that accompanies older age, IMO it is responsible to discuss with the person what to do about firearms as well as a driver's license before they reach a point in which either presents an accelerated hazard and they are incapable of understanding what is going on leading to either 1) the family/friend circle having to confiscate it, or 2) the family/friend circle doing nothing which can harm everyone. Much how there are responsibilities with driving, there are with firearms as well and I think the above is a big part of it.

Originally Posted by Mord

I wouldn't want said granny looking after any child with a gun in the house.

I also prefer living in a society where both burglars and homeowners do not typically have guns.

And you are completely entitled to that preference as I am entitled to mine. I'd like a society where burglars don't have guns either. I believe in a society where law-abiding homeowners can own firearms. Our views are just different.

Originally Posted by hulugu

Is Granny with a Magnum the sequel to Hobo with a Shotgun?

Technically, I think most older persons own shotguns due to more controllability and many who grew up on farms used them fare more than other types of firearms. My grandmother owned a 16 gauge prior to her becoming incapable of safely owning/operating a firearm due to alzheimer's (and my God that is a horrible thing to see/experience).

Originally Posted by CalWizrd

If you're the one intruding on granny and the kids, are you going to hang around to see if granny is a good shot or not?

That's how I feel personally. At least to me, a firearm is more intimidating than a telephone and if someone decides to stick around, it does more than just call for help.

----------

Originally Posted by elistan

My granny turned 90 last year and has heart issues and a bit of trouble getting around. A gun in the nightstand, for example, would do no good if she's in the living room or bathroom. I'd feel better if she had a canister or two of pepper spray stashed in each room, so she can get to it easily. (I heard this from a female friend - she said some safety training she did recommended pepper spray in each room. In the living room, in the bathroom next to the shower, in the bedroom on the night stand, next to the front door, etc., so that a bit of self-defense is always readily available. Much cheaper than purchasing a dozen handguns, I guess, and less likely to accidentally kill anybody.)

On the other hand, if my granny had spent a significant portion of her life as a member of a well-regulated militia, with drills and training, had an up-to-date shooting qualification, and constantly carried while home I suppose she could be effective against an intruder...?

This is another consideration for older persons. OC pepper spray is always a good choice as is the civilian version of the X26 taser. I've been on the receiving end of both to understand how they work. Mobility is another issue. I really haven't considered that much in this specific thread (I'm disabled myself) but I wanted to acknowledge you made a really good point.

[MadeTheSwitch]

Originally Posted by NickZac

I can avoid going places I feel I would need a carry a firearm on me in person to feel safe. I can't avoid if someone decides to come into my house.

I understand that, I just don't understand why you don't feel safe in those other areas, but do feel safe in your home. Isn't the gun the great equalizer here?

If someone wants to keep a gun in every room of their house, they have that right to do so.

But that doesn't answer my question at all. I assume that a large part of the reason people own guns is the notion that they need to protect themselves at all times. Yet they are in fact NOT protected at all times unless, as you say, they have a gun in every room of the house. And every adult that is left in that house knows about and potentially can use the guns in your absence. I doubt most gun owners have really thought those issues through all the way.

[skunk]

Originally Posted by NickZac

Agreed. I mean, it is personal preference. And of course not all granny's (or people of any age) should own a firearm so it varies person-to-person.

That was an attempt at wry humour on my part, actually...

[CalWizrd]

Originally Posted by MadeTheSwitch

... Yet they are in fact NOT protected at all times unless, as you say, they have a gun in every room of the house. And every adult that is left in that house knows about and potentially can use the guns in your absence...

When I am carrying concealed, I am armed if I am dressed. There are not multiple guns "stashed" in every room... the gun travels with me from room to room.

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by CalWizrd

When I am carrying concealed, I am armed if I am dressed. There are not multiple guns "stashed" in every room... the gun travels with me from room to room.

You walk around your house wearing a gun? Even when you're sitting on your Lazy Boy watching Honey Boo Boo?

Interesting....

[skunk]

Originally Posted by CalWizrd

When I am carrying concealed, I am armed if I am dressed.

I guess if you're not dressed, carrying concealed might be very uncomfortable.

There are not multiple guns "stashed" in every room... the gun travels with me from room to room.

How adorable! It must love you very much.

[CalWizrd]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

You walk around your house wearing a gun? Even when you're sitting on your Lazy Boy watching Honey Boo Boo?

Interesting....

Since you have never carried concealed, I wouldn't expect you to understand. It is concealed, not on my hip. I have done it for many years, it's comfortable, and most of the time it is not even consciously felt. It is no different, in sensory perception, as wearing a watch or a pair of shoes... i.e. it's there but not ever present as conscious thought.

I'm sure all of those unfamiliar with this will have tons of sarcastic and/or humorous comments. I would expect nothing less.

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by CalWizrd

Since you have never carried concealed, I wouldn't expect you to understand. It is concealed, not on my hip. I have done it for many years, it's comfortable, and most of the time it is not even consciously felt. It is no different, in sensory perception, as wearing a watch or a pair of shoes... i.e. it's there but not ever present as conscious thought.

I'm sure all of those unfamiliar with this will have tons of sarcastic and/or humorous comments. I would expect nothing less.

Ohhh, I'm very familiar with carrying concealed.

[CalWizrd]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

Ohhh, I'm very familiar with carrying concealed.

When I get home, I am not necessarily going to stay inside for the rest of the evening. Some who carry concealed might remove the firearm, and pick it up and reholster again if going out. Since it is not at all uncomfortable, and I don't carry in an easily accessible belt holster, I simply find it easier leaving it where it is, and when I am going to bed it gets removed.

As I said, it's not something that is even consciously considered... it's just there until I'm getting undressed.

[skunk]

Originally Posted by CalWizrd

As I said, it's not something that is even consciously considered... it's just there until I'm getting undressed.

We are still talking about guns, aren't we?

[CalWizrd]

Originally Posted by skunk

We are still talking about guns, aren't we?

It's always nice when expectations are met.