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Old Jan 6, 2013, 11:51 AM   #451
MacNut
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
This statement just shows you didn't follow the negotiation soap opera over the past couple of months. Fehr is most definitely to blame. If he didn't pull his shady tactics and piss off the owners back during the Dec negotiation week, we would have been playing hockey a month ago.

The owners locked them out because the old CBA led to a league that was unsustainable. You can't run a league where the players are getting 57% (all other leagues are split 50-50) and only 8 of 30 teams are making a profit.



You just don't know or understand hardcore hockey fans very well then. They are the most loyal fans of all the major sports here and at this point the majority are just glad they'll be able to watch hockey again. Some of the casual fans may be turned off, but whatever. That just means tickets will be cheaper for me, though here in Boston, it won't be much. You can guarantee the Garden will be sold out for every one of the 24 (or 25) home games.



The owners wouldn't be the ones feeling the pain. 14 of 30 teams LOST money last season (in a year of record revenues for the league). Missing the season would have saved these 14 owners money, so saying they would have "felt the pain" if they missed the whole season isn't very accurate IMO.



These owners are multi-billionaires in many cases. While they obviously want to make money, not making money won't exactly "hurt" them. Boycotting the game at this point is only going to hurt the arena staff, concession workers, parking lot attendants, servers and bartenders in the bars by the arenas, etc who have already suffered enough and been hurting more than anyone else as a result of this lockout.



Why the hell would the players willingly want to give up a year of salary and a year of their career? They aren't getting any younger. There are tons of guys in the league who might only have a year or two left in their career. The deal they agreed to is more than fair. It just shouldn't have taken this long.
Why should the players and fans allow the owners to lock out the game every 3 years. This is the league with the most lockouts the past 15 years.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 12:24 PM   #452
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Why should the players and fans allow the owners to lock out the game every 3 years. This is the league with the most lockouts the past 15 years.
Every 3 years?

If you're going to throw out asinine crap what's the point of even posting?
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 12:38 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Every 3 years?

If you're going to throw out asinine crap what's the point of even posting?
2012-13 Lockout 113 games 510* days missed
2004-05 Lockout 310 1,230
1994-95 Lockout 104 468
1992-93 Strike 10

Name the other leagues that have had this many work stoppages.
How bad did the last lockout hurt the league and why will this one be any different.

You say that the owners are billionaires and don't care, well they don't care because you keep giving them money.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 12:55 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
2012-13 Lockout 113 games 510* days missed
2004-05 Lockout 310 1,230
1994-95 Lockout 104 468
1992-93 Strike 10

Name the other leagues that have had this many work stoppages.
That's a little farther apart than the "3 years" you claimed. The new CBA is for 10 years so it will be at least 8 years before any of this nonsense happens again. But hopefully now that they got it down to a fair 50-50 split, we won't have problems this big in the future.

Quote:
How bad did the last lockout hurt the league and why will this one be any different.
Well, yearly revenue went from $2 billion a year to $3.3 billion a year since the 2005 lockout so I'd say it didn't hurt very much.

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You say that the owners are billionaires and don't care, well they don't care because you keep giving them money.
So I am supposed to give up the one sport other than football that I really care about? How will that do anything but make my winter less enjoyable?
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 12:58 PM   #455
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That's a little farther apart than the "3 years" you claimed. The new CBA is for 10 years so it will be at least 8 years before any of this nonsense happens again. But hopefully now that they got it down to a fair 50-50 split, we won't have problems this big in the future.



Well, yearly revenue went from $2 billion a year to $3.3 billion a year since the 2005 lockout so I'd say it didn't hurt very much.



So I am supposed to give up the one sport other than football that I really care about? How will that do anything but make my winter less enjoyable?
It's felt like 3 years.

What was so bad about the last CBA that the owners had to lock out. This wasn't 04 when the league really was in trouble. They were finally making money, why jeopardize that. It was all greed of the owners.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 02:17 PM   #456
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It's felt like 3 years.

What was so bad about the last CBA that the owners had to lock out. This wasn't 04 when the league really was in trouble. They were finally making money, why jeopardize that. It was all greed of the owners.
There were a lot of issues that the owners didn't foresee from the implementation of the salary cap (and salary floor). The NHL had record growth year over year since the last lockout. No one (should) anticipate such growth to continue exponentially - a major sticking point between owner v. player proposals in this mess.

The cap went from $39M to $64.3M in just 7 years, raising the floor from $23M to $48.3M, which is more than double. That, combined with an insufficient revenue sharing model, put much of the league in financial constraints. Small market teams had to overpay on mediocre players just to meet the salary floor and associated costs skyrocketed.

---

The % of HRR is still a contested point, whether it's at 57%, 50%, or 43%. The players still contest that tricky accounting hides revenue from HRR, effectively decreasing their maximum earning potential, as the salary cap is tied to revenue.

---

Fehr is not the sole person to blame. The owners are to blame, the players, and Gary Bettman are also all to blame.

The NHL is to blame because its absurd initial proposal shelved negotiations for almost two months. It also had zero sense of urgency to negotiate before a lockout was put in place.

Fehr is only to blame for one thing - doing what he was hired to do by the players, which is get them the best deal possible. No one can deny Fehr was wildly successful in doing so. One can argue lost wages for this season cannot be recouped, but look at the gains from the initial proposal to now. The players and NHLPA clawed back in order to get an adequate proposal from the league.

Another success of Fehr, aided by that nuclear bomb of an initial proposal by the NHL, is that the NHL finally has a union again. It's still not on par with the MLBPA, but it's so much more united than it was before last summer. Reigning in 700 different players is no small feat, especially when most have not been receiving paychecks for quite some time.

---

Either way, this situation is a huge fail where everyone lost - the league, the players, and the fans. I'm torn on the news of the proposed agreement. Part of me has gotten by just fine without the NHL, but another is waiting to rush back and watch every game I can on TV.

I have no intentions of going to the Joe for a game, but the always opportunist in me will certainly pounce on 3rd market tickets if people who do not want to go to games anymore want to sell theirs off for cheap. I will also continue saving for a partial ticket package so I can purchase 2014 Wings/Maple Leafs Winter Classic tickets. I wouldn't miss that for anything.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 02:22 PM   #457
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Does anyone understand these amnesty buyouts? Is the decrease in share part of that particular player's share or al players as a whole?
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 02:53 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
2012-13 Lockout 113 games 510* days missed
2004-05 Lockout 310 1,230
1994-95 Lockout 104 468
1992-93 Strike 10

Name the other leagues that have had this many work stoppages.
How bad did the last lockout hurt the league and why will this one be any different.

You say that the owners are billionaires and don't care, well they don't care because you keep giving them money.
I can't... the only one that really comes close to me and made me not a fan and haven't been back since is the baseball strike that cancelled the World Series.

I don't follow it nor do I hardly go to any games (free tickets usually) to support them. Baseball lost one fan that year.

Whooohooo glad to see Hockey is back!!!!!
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 03:42 PM   #459
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Glad the NHL is back but unfortunately they will not be getting any of my money. No merchandise or ticket money from me. I'm lucky to have 2 AHL teams within driving distance that have already received money from me this year and will continue to in the years to come.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:25 PM   #460
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http://www.sbnation.com/2013/1/6/384...ly-cant-happen


Unfortunately, making Center Ice free or discounted won't happen because the league does not run it.

GameCenter Live, however is an entirely different thing-that they do control and should make discounted or even free for the regular season.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 06:51 PM   #461
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Does anyone understand these amnesty buyouts? Is the decrease in share part of that particular player's share or al players as a whole?
I understand that depending on the age/years/contract, the buyout is either 1/3 or 2/3 of the total remaining. After that, it's a total crapshoot. Use CapGeek.com to figure out what it would cost for a certain player. I don't get why years are tacked on to the contract term with a buyout of Johan Franzen for instance.

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http://www.sbnation.com/2013/1/6/384...ly-cant-happen


Unfortunately, making Center Ice free or discounted won't happen because the league does not run it.

GameCenter Live, however is an entirely different thing-that they do control and should make discounted or even free for the regular season.
At a minimum GameCenter Live needs to be free. Ideally NHLN/Center Ice too if they can wing it.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:42 AM   #462
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What was so bad about the last CBA that the owners had to lock out. This wasn't 04 when the league really was in trouble. They were finally making money, why jeopardize that. It was all greed of the owners.
8 of 30 teams made a net profit last year.

14 of 30 teams lost money and were in the red at the end of the year. Almost HALF of the teams in the league.


So, aside from a few big market teams (Boston, Montreal, Toronto, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh), they really weren't making money. The 57% players share was too high, led to a cap that increased too fast, and just led to a business model that would have been unsustainable.

Damn those greedy owners expecting their business to make a profit and not lose money.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 11:28 AM   #463
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8 of 30 teams made a net profit last year.

14 of 30 teams lost money and were in the red at the end of the year. Almost HALF of the teams in the league.


So, aside from a few big market teams (Boston, Montreal, Toronto, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Pittsburgh), they really weren't making money. The 57% players share was too high, led to a cap that increased too fast, and just led to a business model that would have been unsustainable.

Damn those greedy owners expecting their business to make a profit and not lose money.
Then this begs the question- should there be 30 teams if they can't make money? Reducing players' salary isn't going to fix the fact that half the league isn't making money.

S*** rolls downhill, not up.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 12:42 PM   #464
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Then this begs the question- should there be 30 teams if they can't make money? Reducing players' salary isn't going to fix the fact that half the league isn't making money.

S*** rolls downhill, not up.
It's obvious that the current 30 teams aren't working. Phoenix? Florida? totally stupid and pointless to have teams there.

But this deal had to happen so they could get the HRR split down to a fair 50/50 split like the other 3 major leagues, straighten out revenue sharing, and fix a number of other unforeseen issues that happened as a result of the last CBA. Now that they have these issues straightened out, hopefully they will be set for a while.

Realignment still needs to happen (Winnipeg is still in the Southeast) and hopefully we will see a couple of those southern teams that were losing millions move back up north to real hockey markets.

It's unfortunate that it took this long, but I'm glad both sides came to their senses and got the deal done so that we can watch hockey this year. I think we're going to see a very entertaining season with the short 48 game schedule. Every game is going to mean more and we're going to see the teams going all out every night. I mean, for the Bruins, we're going to play Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, and Buffalo 7 times each in 3 months. That's going to be ridiculously fun for us Bruins fans.

It's going to be a 3 month sprint to the playoffs, and by the time the playoffs roll around, most real hockey fans will forget about what happened with this lockout.

Last edited by zioxide; Jan 7, 2013 at 12:48 PM.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 11:16 AM   #465
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http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowbo...h-dallas-stars

this is pretty awesome.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 12:33 PM   #466
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Oh that is priceless!
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 11:59 AM   #467
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Apparently the Leafs have fired Brian Burke. Im shocked tbh. Right before the season starts, and a day before he could have made a move for Luongo. Something fishy must be going on there!
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 11:50 PM   #468
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The rumors are the Rangers will open up on the road in Boston on the 19th... not happy with that date. Was hoping they get the opening night game at home on the 19th as it works out better me
As it looks I won't be able to go to the home opener as I doubt they open up on the Tuesday
They will prob give the Rangers the opener on the 20th on NBC if the contract starts then...
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 02:02 AM   #469
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Apparently the Leafs have fired Brian Burke. Im shocked tbh. Right before the season starts, and a day before he could have made a move for Luongo. Something fishy must be going on there!
They fired Burke? That's not going to sit well.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 06:18 AM   #470
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They fired Burke? That's not going to sit well.
I really think that the Luongo situation played into his firing. I think both Burke and the ownership group wanted him, but Burke wanted him for less than management was wanting him to give up. Apparently this hit him out of nowhere, and with the hiring of Nonis as GM, I think they are going to end up giving Vancouver more for Luongo, than Burke originally did.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 11:53 PM   #471
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I'm happy hockey is back, but half the season was lost. It really seems pointless at this point in time, but again I'm happy its back.

One thing though:
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:35 AM   #472
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The schedule was released last night and all 30 teams are opening training camp today. woooo.

drop the puck, it's time to go.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 11:09 AM   #473
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hockey today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lets go bruins!


should we start a new 2013 season thread?

Last edited by zioxide; Jan 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:58 AM   #474
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hockey today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


lets go bruins!


should we start a new 2013 season thread?
Was the Bruins team we saw yesterday the same team that played against providence the other night?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 02:46 PM   #475
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oh man, the flyers aren't off to the kind of start i expected
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