Thinking of switching to mirrorless

[IGregory]

Originally Posted by MCAsan

Typically each camera brand has their own mount system of opening sizes, contact pins and protocol between body and lenses. You can get 3rd party lenses from Tamron, Sigma, and others made specifically for Nikon and Canon bodies.

MCAsan check your private messages for a message that I sent. Thanks.

[rayjay86]

Thanks for the great discussion. I think I'm sold on the E-PL5 for now just due to price and reviews. Now the only problem is selling my lenses so I can afford it... :s

[electronique]

Dont discount the Pentax K-01.

I understand you are looking at something smaller than a DSLR.. The K-01 is noticeably larger that some of the other ILCs out there. It does however have an APS-C sensor and it fits all Pentax K lenses, old and new.

IRL the camera look brilliant. A lot better than the toyish look online. Its big, but manageable. Im not sure I would be keen on handling most of the small ILCs out there.

For the price they are going for at the moment, you could sell your kit and get a K-01 and a nice new lens or two.

[matthewr]

This has been a good discussion (and civilized, too !). I think the big question to ask yourself is what your photography interests are. I have a fairly complete Nikon D300s setup, but like many, I find it too big and bulky with all the lenses to take everywhere I go. I have been looking for a smaller package camera with good image quality and versatility for a while now. I found little point and shoots to be far too slow and the image quality wasn't there.

Then I fell in love with the Fuji X100, and it is a terrific little camera. It slips into a jacket pocket, the image quality is great, and it is a classic design. But it lacks a zoom, or the ability to change lenses, and the focus is a little slow as compared to my dSLR. I don't do much street shooting, so it

So for Christmas I got a NEX6 with the kit zoom lens. So far I have been quite impressed with this little package. Closer in size to the X100 than a dSLR, very fast focusing (and pretty accurate, too) and a zoom lens. Image quality is terrific, too. All in all it is great for photographing 3 very active boys, which are often the subject of my photography! Down sides are that the zoom lens is f3.5-5.6, which is significantly less good in low light than either a prime on my dSLR or the lens on the X100 (I know I could get a prime for the NEX6, and that may come, but then I lose the zoomability).

The NEX6 is, in my opinion, a significantly smaller package than a dSLR with a similar zoom, or even than a dSLR with a fast prime. It has much of the functionality and speed, but it will fit in a jacket pocket, so I am more likely to have it with me. The lenses are not a lot smaller than dSLR lenses, but that is because it has a APS sized sensor, and you need a fair amount of glass to get coverage on a sensor that size. To the OP, if you are a casual photographer who wants good versatility in a compact package, I can highly recommend the NEX6.

[wolfpuppies3]

Want small, affordable, versatile, and easy to use? Get the Canon G1-X and be done with it. Carrying extra lenses does not equate to ease of carry, comfort, and portability. I also have 4 DSLR bodies and a dozen lenses but at any given moment the G1-X is with me, the big DSLRs are not unless on assignment. I too tried the Sony NEX and a couple of lenses and hated it. Not portable enough, bulky with the extra lens and flash, no optical view finder which I value highly.

[Neur0genesis]

I went from playing around with my mom's D5000 to a Sony NEX-5 two years ago. Even though it's a bit of a brick compared to the new NEX cameras, still much more compact and packable than the D5000 was. I'd say about half the size, both for body and lenses. It's especially welcome since most of my pictures are landscapes I take while out mountaineering in Colorado. It's small enough to fit into a waist belt pocket on a pack, or in a back pocket of a bike jersey (I rode up Pikes Peak with the body and 2 lenses in a single jersey pocket). I've abused it quite a bit too in my adventures, but nothing's gone wrong yet. I don't quite understand what weather sealing is, but it's held up to sweat, temps well below zero, 80 mph winds, blowing snow, rain and hail storms…I've even dropped it in deep snow a couple times. The original lenses were just OK (though about the same as the 18-55 3.5-5.6 nikkor I was using) , but Sony's new releases have been a lot better. Third party support is getting better too. Hope this helps.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by matthewr

This has been a good discussion (and civilized, too !). I think the big question to ask yourself is what your photography interests are. I have a fairly complete Nikon D300s setup, but like many, I find it too big and bulky with all the lenses to take everywhere I go. I have been looking for a smaller package camera with good image quality and versatility for a while now. I found little point and shoots to be far too slow and the image quality wasn't there.

Then I fell in love with the Fuji X100, and it is a terrific little camera. It slips into a jacket pocket, the image quality is great, and it is a classic design. But it lacks a zoom, or the ability to change lenses, and the focus is a little slow as compared to my dSLR. I don't do much street shooting, so it

So for Christmas I got a NEX6 with the kit zoom lens. So far I have been quite impressed with this little package. Closer in size to the X100 than a dSLR, very fast focusing (and pretty accurate, too) and a zoom lens. Image quality is terrific, too. All in all it is great for photographing 3 very active boys, which are often the subject of my photography! Down sides are that the zoom lens is f3.5-5.6, which is significantly less good in low light than either a prime on my dSLR or the lens on the X100 (I know I could get a prime for the NEX6, and that may come, but then I lose the zoomability).

The NEX6 is, in my opinion, a significantly smaller package than a dSLR with a similar zoom, or even than a dSLR with a fast prime. It has much of the functionality and speed, but it will fit in a jacket pocket, so I am more likely to have it with me. The lenses are not a lot smaller than dSLR lenses, but that is because it has a APS sized sensor, and you need a fair amount of glass to get coverage on a sensor that size. To the OP, if you are a casual photographer who wants good versatility in a compact package, I can highly recommend the NEX6.

I'm glad you like the NEX6. I've been looking for a lighter camera too. I had a Canon S95 but although the quality was good for the size, it was a bit obvious which pictures were taken with which camera when I used in in projects with my DSLR. I've been on a hunt for something in between, and get a bit fed up with all the retro-rangefinder styling which I really don't like. To each his own.

I saw a NEX7 in a shop a couple of months ago and thought it looked good so picked it up and was hooked. It fits beautifully in the hand (well, mine anyway). I've researched the NEX line and think this is the one for me. It was a choice between the NEX6 and 7, the former being newer and having a few things the 7 doesn't, but have gone for the 7 in the end as it has a few more external controls. It's out of stock around here at the moment but the camera shop I use has reserved one for me when they come into the warehouse so hopefully will be able to pick one up next Thursday! There's rumoured to be a replacement out the first half this year but have decided not to wait. Too many what if's!

I have a friend who uses one and he says the 24mm Zeiss lens is really good. I'll get it first with the kit lens as it only adds £49 to the price and can sell it later if I want, but there's a 32mm Zeiss coming out by the summer which looks interesting.

[Jaro65]

Originally Posted by Ish

I'm glad you like the NEX6. I've been looking for a lighter camera too. I had a Canon S95 but although the quality was good for the size, it was a bit obvious which pictures were taken with which camera when I used in in projects with my DSLR. I've been on a hunt for something in between, and get a bit fed up with all the retro-rangefinder styling which I really don't like. To each his own.

I saw a NEX7 in a shop a couple of months ago and thought it looked good so picked it up and was hooked. It fits beautifully in the hand (well, mine anyway). I've researched the NEX line and think this is the one for me. It was a choice between the NEX6 and 7, the former being newer and having a few things the 7 doesn't, but have gone for the 7 in the end as it has a few more external controls. It's out of stock around here at the moment but the camera shop I use has reserved one for me when they come into the warehouse so hopefully will be able to pick one up next Thursday! There's rumoured to be a replacement out the first half this year but have decided not to wait. Too many what if's!

I have a friend who uses one and he says the 24mm Zeiss lens is really good. I'll get it first with the kit lens as it only adds £49 to the price and can sell it later if I want, but there's a 32mm Zeiss coming out by the summer which looks interesting.

I'm in a similar situation, in that I currently have a NEX 5n and I'm deciding between NEX 6 and NEX 7. Both though are terrific cameras, so one can't choose wrong by going with either one. I'll be also picking up the 10-18 f4 and 35 f1.8 lenses. The 32 Zeiss sounds interesting, but it is likely going to be priced similarly to their 24mm model ($1000+).

These are great times to enjoy photography! So many good cameras to choose from....

[Otaillon]

I'm in a similar situation. In fact, I've got almost the same kit as you (D90 + 35mm + 10-20mm + 70-300mm).

I've been eyeing those Mirrorless/MFT systems for a while, so this conversation is really great for me!

[matthewr]

Just an update to my previous comments - I was taking pictures of the kids sledding over the weekend and was blown away by the focus tracking on the NEX 6. It was much simpler and more accurate than the focus tracking on my D300s, and I was quite please with the results. And it handled the difficult lighting in the snow quite well, too. Still very pleased with my NEX!

[rayjay86]

Just to update all on my choice:

I went with the E-PL5 off Amazon.com due to price (there was also an instant $50 savings plus the free Toshiba FlashAir mail-in rebate). I really did like the NEX6 as I played around with it in BestBuy but for the extra money that I saved not buying the Sony, I picked up a Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 lens.

In summary: I LOVE IT! With the little Pana lens it fits comfortably in my jacket pocket. Picked up a "noose" from Crumpler for $20 and I've already taken my camera out in Vancouver more times in a week than I would have with my DSLR. Sure its probably because its new and I'm a kid with a new toy but I'm loving its portability still.

Still really liked the NEX line and if I could afford it I would probably have sprung for that.

My one gripe with the Olympus is the touch screen function that takes pictures. I accidentally take pictures while just holding the camera. If there was a way to turn that off but still have touchscreen active I'd be thrilled.

[Oracle1729]

Originally Posted by rayjay86

1. With a mirrorless system can I use my Nikon lenses (they are all cpu lenses) if I buy a mount with these? I know with the NEX I can buy an adapter off amazon (Fotodiox?) but I'm wondering how effective that is. I might be selling my old kit to get money for the change though so maybe moot.

If you're going to attach a Nikon SLR lens to a mirrorless body, do you really save that much size over your D5000 body with the same lens?

In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.

[rayjay86]

I have to disagree. The image quality I'm getting is impressive especially in low-light with my panasonic lens. I got rid of my D5000 and the lenses. As with any camera with interchangeable lenses, the glass you use tends to make a bigger difference than the body. I've noticed that already.

As for ergonomic composure I haven't noticed any real problems that aren't related to getting used to using new hardware. Not having a viewfinder is a bit of a pain but I'm getting used to that. Battery life is pretty good considering how much I use it. I haven't charged it yet after one full charge cycle and I've been using it regularly for 2 days. I just turn it off when I'm not using it (it starts up fairly quickly).

I was skeptical at first but it seems like the mirrorless systems have come a long way from when they first came out in terms of features and image quality.

[Joe King]

Originally Posted by Oracle1729

In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.

That might have been true of the first generation of mirrorless cameras but it's far from the case now. I find that my Olympus OM-D easily produces images as good as my (now retired) Nikon D90. The gap between mirrorless and DX SLRs is getting narrower with each iteration; the only significant difference now is autofocus performance for fast moving subjects like sports and wildlife and Nikon seem to have cracked that issue with the focus system on their 1 series cameras. You can bet Oly, Panny, Sony etc. will follow suit with their versions of this focus system in the next generation.

My initial venture into mirrorless was less than impressive: I got a good deal on an Oly E-PL1 with a 14-42mm kit lens a few years back but I didn't think much of the performance of the camera, which was unuseable above ISO 400, and I also felt the image quality was not much above my venerable old Canon Powershot G5. However, I subsequently impulse bought the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 and this made a huge difference to image quality. It quickly became clear to me that the kit lens supplied with the E-PL1 was pretty poor and that with good glass the m43 system had promise. (I think there is a new, better, version of the 14-42 out now.) The ISO issues seem to have been resolved in the latest generation of cameras such as my OM-D: I can get useable pictures up to ISO 3200, if needed. The range and quality of lenses has improved vastly in recent years as well.

m43 mirrorless still falls some way short of the image quality of full frame and probably always will but there seems to be little difference between m43 and DX and what you lose in that respect is made up by the convenience in terms of portability. (There is, of course no difference if using a DX-based mirrorless system like NEX, although I think these cameras, or rather their lenses, are too bulky.) It should be said too that some mirrorless cameras have features that are not available in SLRs such as focus peaking, 5-axis image stabilisation, live bulb, live histogram etc.

[glenthompson]

Originally Posted by Oracle1729

In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.

I get great image quality on my Nex-7. I've compared shots I've taken with others taken with APS-C sized DSLRs and I think it's better. I have also taken 250+ pix on a single battery and still had power left.

I can compose shots on the LCD or in the viewfinder. The LCD tilts so I can use it as a waist level finder or put it on the ground or overhead. When shooting in manual mode I can see what the exposure looks like in the display.

In my opinion the only reasons to go with a DSLR are Full frame sensor and better lens selection.

[Oracle1729]

Originally Posted by glenthompson

I get great image quality on my Nex-7. I've compared shots I've taken with others taken with APS-C sized DSLRs and I think it's better. I have also taken 250+ pix on a single battery and still had power left.

When you compare to APS-C in general. I bet your Nex-7 is far better than the $10,000 Nikon D1 with an APS sensor..from more than 10 years ago. You have to compare modern cameras to modern cameras. How does your Nex-7 compare to a new consumer grade camera like the D5200?

I've seen people say their iPhone shots look as good as DSLR shots, and if their skill is bad enough, it may well be true. I recently had to explain to a co-worker why they couldn't print a blurry P&S shot of a bird at 20x30 even though they thought it looked "professional". People have very low standards now but that's no reason to buy a crappy camera and pretend it's a good one.

I've got the D90 the poster above mentioned, I routinely take 1000+ pics on a single battery (and I still have to carry a spare). 250 is laughable, either in the studio or for an average person out on vacation.

I can compose shots on the LCD or in the viewfinder.

Using the LCD adds a lot of shutter lag, slows the autofocus and feels akward. A limited quality LCD is also a poor substitute for a direct optical view of the actual scene.

[glenthompson]

When you compare to APS-C in general. I bet your Nex-7 is far better than the $10,000 Nikon D1 with an APS sensor..from more than 10 years ago. You have to compare modern cameras to modern cameras. How does your Nex-7 compare to a new consumer grade camera like the D5200?

The comparison was to a Canon Rebel XT so it was a bit older but not too much. Pix were fast moving cars at a motorsports event. Haven't had the opportunity to compare more recent APS cameras used at the same event.

Using the LCD adds a lot of shutter lag, slows the autofocus and feels akward. A limited quality LCD is also a poor substitute for a direct optical view of the actual scene.

The Nex-7 has little shutter lag. In fact it took a while to get used to how fast the shutter would trip since I was expecting a slight lag. Live view is great in low light conditions.

[Sylon]

I have a Nikon D200 with a few lenses, but I've been thinking about getting a mirrorless camera for trips where lugging my DSLR would be risky or just impractical. I plan on going to Vegas this fall and I don't want to take my giant DSLR out and about.

So I was looking into the Nikon J3, specifically for its compact size, yet still pretty good. With the standard lens attached I could fit it into a coat pocket without it being too bothersome. That is really what the J3 has going for it. But in every other way, the Sony NEX5-R is better. I really like its low-light performance. It's a bit big though. I might go with it anyways, at least I have some time to think about it.

[guzhogi]

Originally Posted by kevinfulton.ca

3. Sony NEX6: Pro's= Compact, easy to use, solid image quality, nice screen, large APS-C sensor, good low light Con's= Small lens selection (but Sony is pushing the NEX line pretty hard so expect plenty more in the near future), no weather sealing.

My sister & brother-in-law have a Sony NEX (not sure which one) but they seem to like it.

I have a Sony a65 with a Sony 18-250MM. Pretty good camera. I agree with those that say the lens selection can get better, but there are quite a few good lenses out there. Sony, IMO, does not get the credit it deserves. Just wish the NEX had built-in GPS tagging like their DSLTs do.

[MacCruiskeen]

Originally Posted by Oracle1729

People have very low standards now but that's no reason to buy a crappy camera and pretend it's a good one.

But that's the whole principle of marketing cameras these days!

[tekmoe]

I sold my Nikon D5000 to get the Sony NEX-6 as I wanted a smaller companion to my Nikon D800. It takes fantastic photos and is on par with the quality of photos the D5000 was pumping out. I am using the kit lens (16-50mm) and the Sony 16mm f/2.8 that I received for free as part of a promotional offer.

[loybond]

Where did you get that idea? The NEX cameras and Fuji APS-C mirrorless cameras have the best image quality out of all the APS-C cameras out there. For example, the NEX cameras have significantly higher dynamic range than even a 5D2, the NEX-7 is slightly sharper than the D600 (granted the D600 beats it in everything else, just saying), and ISO 3200/6400 on the NEX-5N and Fuji X-E1 beat the crap out of stuff like the T4i.

You get more controls and what not on the SLR body, but the NEX-5R for example has the same or better image quality, is cheaper and takes much better video with continuous autofocus too. There's no doubt that mirrorless is the future.

I just can't wait for the full frame NEX next year. Hope it's not too expensive like SAR is suggesting.

Originally Posted by Oracle1729

In any case, you take a huge image quality hit with mirrorless as well as things like worse battery life, less ergonomic composing, etc. If you don't want to carry an SLR, use your iPhone camera. With a mirrorless you get a poorer quality image and still have a fair bit of bulk.