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Old Jan 7, 2013, 09:27 PM   #76
WilliamLondon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
What has Google copied?
That's the point on which you're going to focus? Really? See 4 posts above this one for a response to that question, and feel free simply to continue to ignore the rest of my quite lengthy post.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:55 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
What has Google copied?
everything.
Phone OS, app store, tablets, chromebook hardwares.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 12:20 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
but I detest Google and think they are one of the most evil companies on the face of this planet.
Yap, that was very clear with all of your tin foil bashing
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 05:25 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by firewood View Post
That's almost lying with statistics. The mean average is thrown way off by a few top apps. The actual median average is more like 1 download per day, with 50% of all paid apps getting even less action.
I think you missed my next line which said that many wouldn't be like this (e.g. Temple Run which has 1140x more than this 'average' amount!!) lol.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 05:26 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Yap, that was very clear with all of your tin foil bashing
Yep, that's the way to discuss, attack the other person - it always seems to work in the minds of those who employ the tactic. It's also much easier than actually discussing or arguing any of the points made. Thanks for playing!
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 05:59 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
Yep, that's the way to discuss, attack the other person - it always seems to work in the minds of those who employ the tactic. It's also much easier than actually discussing or arguing any of the points made. Thanks for playing!
What has to be argued when your main claim is that is an evil company?

By the way, you're totally wrong, Google does not sell your data and they don't track anything opn Android devices if you don't opt in.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:04 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
Yep, that's the way to discuss, attack the other person - it always seems to work in the minds of those who employ the tactic. It's also much easier than actually discussing or arguing any of the points made. Thanks for playing!
Well, when it comes to someone who says stuff like "Google is the most evil company on the face on the planet and copies everything", I doubt an earnest exchange of ideas will actually lead to anything.

I mean comeon. What's so evil about Google? "olol they stole an OS and track what movies I like". That's...evil to you? Really? You set the bar incredibly low on what constitutes a dastardly deed there, guy.

Me? I don't consider a corporation evil until they at least poison a small midwestern towns water supply. Google hardly qualifies.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 07:51 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Well, when it comes to someone who says stuff like "Google is the most evil company on the face on the planet and copies everything", I doubt an earnest exchange of ideas will actually lead to anything.

I mean comeon. What's so evil about Google? "olol they stole an OS and track what movies I like". That's...evil to you? Really? You set the bar incredibly low on what constitutes a dastardly deed there, guy.

Me? I don't consider a corporation evil until they at least poison a small midwestern towns water supply. Google hardly qualifies.
Not that you've asked a question as to why I think evil applies here, but my personal philosophy is that privacy is something that is mine and mine alone, not something from which corporations can profit. When they draw the line inside my privacy they have effectively said that my person or part of it is public, and I've got a real problem with turning part of me public, and what I find most concerning about this is that some people don't think that's anything at all to worry about. But you didn't ask.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 08:11 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
Not that you've asked a question as to why I think evil applies here, but my personal philosophy is that privacy is something that is mine and mine alone, not something from which corporations can profit. When they draw the line inside my privacy they have effectively said that my person or part of it is public, and I've got a real problem with turning part of me public, and what I find most concerning about this is that some people don't think that's anything at all to worry about. But you didn't ask.
No, I didn't ask because I know some people tend to over exaggerate what Google does, and/or doesn't understand their methods and what they collect.

Considering your use of the word "evil", I assumed you were one of those people.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 09:59 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Considering your use of the word "evil", I assumed you were one of those people.
That's fair, and I don't normally bash Google on here, because it's sort of assumed that if you're an Apple fan you're automatically against Google (which is just plain silly - consumer devices and their manufacturers aren't teams one supports in some competition) and I just don't see the point, but sometimes especially when I've come home late from work and the world is asleep and I see someone being positive about Google I can't keep my gob shut and I might even philosophise a bit (or a lot).

I'm an Apple fan, but that doesn't mean anything about what I think of Google (or Amazon - even today I upgraded my Kindle to the Paperwhite!), my attitude toward Google is independent, it just happens that privacy and advertising (which I call psychological manipulation) are big bug bears of mine. Hope that makes sense.

Back to the subject of this thread, I'm thrilled the numbers are this big, because it means more developers will flock to iOS development and more great apps will be created - exciting times ahead for iOS device owners I think!
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 11:26 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
Yes, I can't wait until we are all fed Google ads 24x7 through our eyewear. Or better yet, implanted lenses. I dream of living in a Minority Report ad-saturated world.



It helps when your competition (Google) gives its stuff away for free.
Love the sarcasm.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tann View Post
Means each of the 775k apps has been downloaded (on average) 56k times!!

Obviously not true, as Temple Run has got at least 1140x more than this but still impressive!

----------



I don't think the smartphone will be replaced anytime soon, I just think that other things will be added to the everyday user.

Glasses is cool... but how do you take a call, or send a text? They could be used in addition to a phone (to display a route, display a text, display song playing or notifications) but I think that that's what it will be for the foreseeable future, just things being used in addition to others. To complement them!
With augmented reality you could project a keyboard onto any flat surface.
The glasses register you typing with your hand movements.
Still we might just carry around a small flip open keyboard.
I'm sure the glasses will have head phones and a battery pack you will need to carry around too at least at first.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 10:09 PM   #87
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I laugh when all the financial experts and Wall Street suits come out with market reports that say Apple is only making money by overcharging on their hardware and Apple is doomed because they don't innovate anymore since Jobs died and Android and Microsoft are gaining fast in the marketplace and Blackberry just needs one more update and they are off on a huge comeback!

20 Billion downloads of Apps in ONE YEAR cant be wrong! (A year AFTER Steve Jobs died!)
Its not just one person downloading (and paying for) all that content and you have to buy a device to put that content on to!

I don't think so many people would be buying Apple and iOS devices if all this other competition is supposedly so much better! Even the entire legion of iSheeple and Apple early adopter fanatics cant account for such growth!

So obviously plenty of people are buying the devices and downloading content despite all the experts telling us Apple is on its way out and Apple is nothing but a slowly dying company no longer innovating! Why ? because they have not made a TV yet?

Now i know many apps are free but even if we say it the price averages to just .25¢ per download... and with Apple getting their 30% cut? that's still Billions paid out to developers and plenty in Apples wallet as well!

And this does not include iTunes store...
Or the Mac App store...

By comparison how many downloads does the Amazon, Palm, Blackberry or Windows Mobile Apps stores have? You know all these companies that were either around before iOS or touted as the next major Apple killer by the 'experts'?!
How fast is Blackberry growing? Do you think they finally got the memo that you can do more than email with your smartphone?
I hear Palm has a new PDA coming out with a new color screen and a stylus and it even has a phone built in and everything!

All of these other app stores combined do not add up to half of the business the iOS store has done, and none of the devices by these companies have the functionality and simplicity of an iOS device.

The only one that even comes close is the Android App store combined with Samsung's line of smartphones and that is fine, and there is plenty of debate as to which system is better which is also great for the market and adds just enough competition to keep Apple on its toes! Neither is going anywhere anytime soon.

By the way how did that Zune store work out? You know the one that the experts all swore would surpass iTunes?

Last edited by MadDawg2020; Jan 8, 2013 at 10:16 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 07:11 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
What has to be argued when your main claim is that is an evil company?

By the way, you're totally wrong, Google does not sell your data and they don't track anything opn Android devices if you don't opt in.
You've been corrected on this falsehood before. I'd really stop doing it, because it's so easy to refute.

Even from Google's own lips:

"We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary to:

meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request.
enforce applicable Terms of Service, including investigation of potential violations.
detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security or technical issues.
protect against harm to the rights, property or safety of Google, our users or the public as required or permitted by law.
We may share aggregated, non-personally identifiable information publicly and with our partners – like publishers, advertisers or connected sites. For example, we may share information publicly to show trends about the general use of our services."

From here - http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/

And no, they don't sell it. They give it away! Is that less evil?


Or, maybe here: http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/

"We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google..."
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 07:48 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
You've been corrected on this falsehood before. I'd really stop doing it, because it's so easy to refute.
You have not refuted anything, Gogole (or Apple( does not sell any information


Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
Even from Google's own lips:

"We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary to:

meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request.
enforce applicable Terms of Service, including investigation of potential violations.
detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security or technical issues.
protect against harm to the rights, property or safety of Google, our users or the public as required or permitted by law.
We may share aggregated, non-personally identifiable information publicly and with our partners – like publishers, advertisers or connected sites. For example, we may share information publicly to show trends about the general use of our services."

From here - http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/

And no, they don't sell it. They give it away! Is that less evil?
If you're saying that Google gives away the information you're joking or you don't understand a simple TOS.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:04 AM   #90
Irishman
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
You have not refuted anything, Gogole (or Apple( does not sell any information
Is giving it away morally SUPERIOR than selling it in your mind??????

And besides, I didn't refute anything. Google did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
If you're saying that Google gives away the information you're joking or you don't understand a simple TOS.
Please enlighten me. It shouldn't take too long. Unless you think a TOS doesn't mean what it says, in which case I question your judgement.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:14 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
You've been corrected on this falsehood before. I'd really stop doing it, because it's so easy to refute.
No, he is right. You are wrong.

Quote:
Even from Google's own lips:

"We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary to:
...
Apple's privacy policy has almost exactly the same conditions. For examples:

"At times Apple may make certain personal information available to strategic partners that work with Apple to provide products and services, or that help Apple market to customers. For example, when you purchase and activate your iPhone, you authorize Apple and its carrier to exchange the information you provide during the activation process to carry out service."
...
"Apple shares personal information with companies who provide services such as information processing, extending credit, fulfilling customer orders, delivering products to you, managing and enhancing customer data, providing customer service, assessing your interest in our products and services, and conducting customer research or satisfaction surveys. "
...
"It may be necessary − by law, legal process, litigation, and/or requests from public and governmental authorities within or outside your country of residence − for Apple to disclose your personal information. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate."
...
"We may also disclose information about you if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or protect our operations or users. Additionally, in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale we may transfer any and all personal information we collect to the relevant third party."

It's excellent that you looked up (at least one) policy, but you have to know what it means and if it's something unusual. Neither policy is about selling or giving away personal info, except if you cause a disruption or if they need to cooperate with authorities.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:19 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
Is giving it away morally SUPERIOR than selling it in your mind??????

And besides, I didn't refute anything. Google did.

Please enlighten me. It shouldn't take too long. Unless you think a TOS doesn't mean what it says, in which case I question your judgement.
Google's information disclosure to 3rd parties is not for the purpose of selling data to other ad services or to help 3rd parties target you directly for ad purposes. Their disclosure policy (like Apple's and everyone elses) is for the purpose of aiding law enforcement or processing said data outside of Google's area of expertise.

Google does not sell your data or its analytics data to 3rd parties, it sells ad placement based on the data it holds.

You've now been enlightened.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:24 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
No, he is right. You are wrong.

It's excellent that you looked up (at least one) policy, but you have to know what it means and if it's something unusual. Neither policy is about selling or giving away personal info, except if you cause a disruption or if they need to cooperate with authorities.

That's an assertion I've yet to see documentation for.

If you have it, I'd love to see. Google's own chosen words say otherwise.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Google's information disclosure to 3rd parties is not for the purpose of selling data to other ad services or to help 3rd parties target you directly for ad purposes. Their disclosure policy (like Apple's and everyone elses) is for the purpose of aiding law enforcement or processing said data outside of Google's area of expertise.

Google does not sell your data or its analytics data to 3rd parties, it sells ad placement based on the data it holds.

You've now been enlightened.
And yet this supposed enlightenment is simply your words. Google's words do not agree with you.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:27 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
Google's own chosen words say otherwise.[COLOR="#808080"]
Then you have to re read them, because they clearly state in which cases the ifnormation is shared and ads is not one of those cases
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:28 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
And yet this supposed enlightenment is simply your words. Google's words do not agree with you.
Sure they do, same as Apple's words, Microsoft's words, Facebook's words, Amazon's words. You just wish to interpret them differently. Anyone who understands a thing or 2 about business models and how advertising works know that selling the information is not a sustainable business model.

If I could simply buy Google's data, why would I use them for ad placement ? I'd buy the data once and leave Google hanging for future payments while I target ads directly to you. That's not in Google's or any other advertisers interest at all. They want you coming back again, and again and again for your ad campaigns.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:32 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Then you have to re read them, because they clearly state in which cases the ifnormation is shared and ads is not one of those cases
Let's move those goalposts back where they were, shall we?

Your blanket assertion was that Google does not sell personal data. I showed you two excerpts from Google's own TOS that show that they reserve the right to share your data (whether in aggregate or individual) at their discretion.

Your blanket assertion is, therefore, wrong.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Sure they do, same as Apple's words, Microsoft's words, Facebook's words, Amazon's words. You just wish to interpret them differently. Anyone who understands a thing or 2 about business models and how advertising works know that selling the information is not a sustainable business model.

If I could simply buy Google's data, why would I use them for ad placement ? I'd buy the data once and leave Google hanging for future payments while I target ads directly to you. That's not in Google's or any other advertisers interest at all. They want you coming back again, and again and again for your ad campaigns.
Red herring. I never said that Google just offers our data for sale as a commodity. I said - and so do they in their TOS - that they reserve the right to share it with partners or law enforcement at their discretion.

It disproves Oletros' blanket assertion above, one that he's repeated in various threads on MacRumors.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:33 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
Your blanket assertion was that Google does not sell personal data. I showed you two excerpts from Google's own TOS that show that they reserve the right to share your data (whether in aggregate or individual) at their discretion.

Your blanket assertion is, therefore, wrong.

No, my assertion is totally right, Google doesn not sell data and Google does not share data for ad purposes.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:35 AM   #98
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No, my assertion is totally right, Google doesn not sell data and Google does not share data for ad purposes.
This is the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and humming "I can't hear you. Nya nya nya!"

I just could not allow wrong-headed thinking to go uncorrected. My job is done, and I'll resume reading again, unless needed later I am.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:36 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
This is the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and humming "I can't hear you. Nya nya nya!"

Yes, that is exactly what you're doing.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:21 AM   #100
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How do these numbers compare to that of the other "app stores" out there? Would be curious to know.
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