Judge Dismisses Apple Trademark Claims Against Amazon's Appstore

thekev · Jan 8, 2013

barkmonster said:
I'm not disputing that it's a generic term, I'm simply saying it only became the norm to refer to ALL software, regardless of platform as APPs since Apple's "There's an App for that" marketing for the iPhone.

It's not difficult to grasp this fact.

Is your argument that they should carry the trademark since they granted a certain amount of ubiquity to the term? The point that has been made on here several times over is that if someone mentioned an "app" prior to that marketing in reference to a computing device, there would have been a basic understanding. Apple essentially brought the term to pop culture.

barkmonster said:
A simple, straightforward, OBVIOUS point that shouldn't need any explanation!

They gave you examples. What do you find invalid rather than simply unsavory?

KnightWRX · Jan 8, 2013

Barkmonster is shown wrong simply with this :

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=388248&d=1357447707

Seriously. A book titled Computer Applications, from 1960. Apple didn't exist, neither did Microsoft. Application was already used in computing.

/end pointless debate that has no relevance to the thread.

samcraig · Jan 8, 2013

KnightWRX said:
Barkmonster is shown wrong simply with this :

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=388248&d=1357447707

Seriously. A book titled Computer Applications, from 1960. Apple didn't exist, neither did Microsoft. Application was already used in computing.

/end pointless debate that has no relevance to the thread.

But that's not Appsssssssssszzzzzzzzz!!!!!

kdarling · Jan 8, 2013

barkmonster said:
That's exactly what I'm saying and I'm citing the long history of, on a user level, Apple operating systems have always run Applications, other platforms have run Program's and only since the iPhone and subsequent popularity of calling all software Apps, have other companies jumped on the bandwagon.

I agree with you that the mass population started using "app" a lot because of iPhone ads, especially the catchphrase "there's an app for that".

It's who came first to popularise the term that's the issue.

Nope. Popularity isn't enough, if the word was already generic in the industry.

Example: Apple also popularized the word "multi-touch", and tried to get a trademark on it. They failed, specifically because it was already a generic word in the touchscreen industry.

It's basically the same as if someone tried to trademark "Transistor Radio" when they first came out, simply because most consumers had never heard the term "transistor" before. Ditto for "laser printer" or "integrated circuit" or any other phrase or term that the general public later became familiar with.

AidenShaw · Jan 8, 2013

KnightWRX said:
Barkmonster is shown wrong simply with this :

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=388248&d=1357447707

Seriously. A book titled Computer Applications, from 1960. Apple didn't exist, neither did Microsoft. Application was already used in computing.

/end pointless debate that has no relevance to the thread.

samcraig said:
But that's not Appsssssssssszzzzzzzzz!!!!!

I'm sure that Apple Legal is preparing a suit - as soon as they get the flux capacitor charged so that they can register it in 1959.

Geckotek · Jan 8, 2013

barkmonster said:
I don't know why this arrogant nonsense keeps being repeated. The simple fact is, until the iPhone popularised the term "app" as it refers to software.

Weird, because I would call arrogance you saying something is a fact when in FACT, it is not. Since I've been using computers since the early '80's and Mobile devices since the early '90's, I'm going to assume I know more about you on this subject.

Lennholm · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
That's exactly what I'm saying and I'm citing the long history of, on a user level, Apple operating systems have always run Applications, other platforms have run Program's and only since the iPhone and subsequent popularity of calling all software Apps, have other companies jumped on the bandwagon. It's who came first to popularise the term that's the issue.

That's just ridiculous, in this case it's irrelevant whether Apple popularized the term or not. It was a well established, generic term that didn't belong to anyone long before and Apple doesn't get to hijack it just because they expanded its usage.

The term "app store" is constructed of two equally descriptive and generic words; "app" and "store", and because of this "app store" is just as descriptive and generic, which means it's not trademarkable.
If Apple wanted to trademark a term that includes at least one word that isn't generic or (in context) descriptive it would be an entirely different matter. "Apple Store", "Mac App Store", "iTunes Store" etc. all contain a non-generic word and are therefore trademarkable. If Apple want to trademark "iOS App Store", "iApp Store" or "Apple App Store" they will probably get it with no objections.

KnightWRX · Jan 9, 2013

It's funny because we all know he's going to lie low for a few days, then come back and say "Apple had APPlications and Microsoft had PROGrams" again.

Ignoring the fact that Apple/Microsoft are but a portion of the computing world, that Microsoft did in fact use Application in much of its litterature and all over its OSes, and the plain fact that who used/uses/will use Application has little to do with with the current topic which is trying to trademark Grocery Store for a business that has a storefront that sells groceries (s/[Gg]rocer[yi]e*/App/g)

Nightarchaon · Jan 9, 2013

Can we just leave it as "patent and copyright laws are shockingly bad and ambiguous and people just need to grown up about this"

When we live in a world where you can patent and copyright someones DNA or a Shape, then things are just silly and out of hand.

KnightWRX · Jan 9, 2013

Nightarchaon said:
Can we just leave it as "patent and copyright laws are shockingly bad and ambiguous and people just need to grown up about this"

When we live in a world where you can patent and copyright someones DNA or a Shape, then things are just silly and out of hand.

This thread isn't about copyright or patents. It's about trademarks.

And trademarks are A-OK with me. I wouldn't want to go to the corner store, look in the fridge and have to read the small print to find out which of all the damn identical Diet Pepsi bottles is the one actually made by Pepsi Co. and not some knock-off. That's trademarks at work for you, preventing consumer confusion.

barkmonster · Jan 9, 2013

KnightWRX said:
It's funny because we all know he's going to lie low for a few days, then come back and say "Apple had APPlications and Microsoft had PROGrams" again.

Ignoring the fact that Apple/Microsoft are but a portion of the computing world, that Microsoft did in fact use Application in much of its litterature and all over its OSes, and the plain fact that who used/uses/will use Application has little to do with with the current topic which is trying to trademark Grocery Store for a business that has a storefront that sells groceries (s/[Gg]rocer[yi]e*/App/g)

Again, literature, filesystems blah blah blah....

It's perfectly simple what I'm refering to is the basic, user level naming conventions that have suddenly changed from a mixture of APPlications and Programs depending on platform to all platforms suddenly using the generic term APP, including Microsoft who for 7 prior OS versions, called them Programs regardless of any folder names etc...

I don't know anyone who refers to it as App Store in the first place anyway, it's always, iTunes or iTunes Store and it's Apple who decided to create a seperate store just for Apps on their iOS devices and later Mac OS X but the fact remains, the whole "There's an App for that" popularised the term and everyone else followed suit so far as user level OS naming conventions, feature descriptions and marketing. That's the point I'm making, that's the ONLY point I've being making from the beginning and all the nit picking nonsense doesn't change anything.

KnightWRX · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
Again, literature, filesystems blah blah blah....

That's basically your own argument. "Apple has a folder called APPlications, Microsoft has a directory called PROGram Files". Repeat it again, and again more please because you sure don't sound like a broken record. Even you now claim to sound like a broken record, as evidenced by your "Blah blah blah" about your own argument.

barkmonster said:
I don't know anyone who refers to it as App Store in the first place anyway, it's always, iTunes or iTunes Store

Good, then we all agree that Apple has failed to achieve secondary meaning with their descriptive "App Store" and thus should not be granted the trademark under current trademark law.

Finally glad that's over (even though I know you'll just come back).

Seriously sir, are you just posting to get reactions ? If so, well played, well played indeed, but know that there's a forum rule against that. If you're like that guy who doesn't understand how you can record with a VCR without the TV being on channel 3, or even without a TV at all, then I'm sorry, your life must be a living hell.

barkmonster · Jan 9, 2013

KnightWRX said:
That's basically your own argument. "Apple has a folder called APPlications, Microsoft has a directory called PROGram Files". Repeat it again, and again more please because you sure don't sound like a broken record. Even you now claim to sound like a broken record, as evidenced by your "Blah blah blah" about your own argument.

Good, then we all agree that Apple has failed to achieve secondary meaning with their descriptive "App Store" and thus should not be granted the trademark under current trademark law.

Finally glad that's over (even though I know you'll just come back).

Seriously sir, are you just posting to get reactions ? If so, well played, well played indeed, but know that there's a forum rule against that. If you're like that guy who doesn't understand how you can record with a VCR without the TV being on channel 3, or even without a TV at all, then I'm sorry, your life must be a living hell.

No it basically ISN'T my argument at all. What I'm saying is this:

APPLE in their OSs, be it iOS or Mac OS or Mac OS X, pick one, I don't care, it doesn't matter, have a LONG HISTORY of refering to the software you use on their platform(s) as APPLICATIONS, other companies/OSs have a LONG HISTORY of refering the software you use on THEIR platform(s) as Programs.

Suddenly the rise in popularity of smart phones, be it the iPhone or otherwise makes the term APP popular. APPLE decided to use "There's an APP for that" as a marketing slogan to promote the variety of small APPlications or APPs available for the iPhone.

Windows 7 comes out. Still calling them Programs at THE USER LEVEL, I'll spell this out, that's the MENU you go to to open SOFTWARE which ON A USER LEVEL is refered to platform wide as PROGRAMS.

Other mobile platforms gain in popularity and the term APP becomes the generic term for mobile software. I'm not disputing this and haven't at any point disputed this.

Windows 8 comes out. Kindle becomes more than an ebook reader and suddenly Amazon have Appstore, Microsoft throw away 18 years of Windows USER LEVEL naming conventions and start calling PROGRAMS, APPs.

You might notice I've done nothing but REACT to nonsense, rather than try and get a reaction. There's enough nitpicking drivel being spouted for me to REACT to already without me purposefully inviting it

Lennholm · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
Again, literature, filesystems blah blah blah....

It's perfectly simple what I'm refering to is the basic, user level naming conventions that have suddenly changed from a mixture of APPlications and Programs depending on platform to all platforms suddenly using the generic term APP, including Microsoft who for 7 prior OS versions, called them Programs regardless of any folder names etc...

I don't know anyone who refers to it as App Store in the first place anyway, it's always, iTunes or iTunes Store and it's Apple who decided to create a seperate store just for Apps on their iOS devices and later Mac OS X but the fact remains, the whole "There's an App for that" popularised the term and everyone else followed suit so far as user level OS naming conventions, feature descriptions and marketing. That's the point I'm making, that's the ONLY point I've being making from the beginning and all the nit picking nonsense doesn't change anything.

No, that's not the only point you're making. If it was it would simply be off topic, but in your last reply to me you clearly stated that your point is that Apple should be granted a trademark for the descriptive and generic term "app store" on the basis that they simply popularized the term "app", which is ridiculous.

--------------

barkmonster said:
No it basically ISN'T my argument at all. What I'm saying is this:

APPLE in their OSs, be it iOS or Mac OS or Mac OS X, pick one, I don't care, it doesn't matter, have a LONG HISTORY of refering to the software you use on their platform(s) as APPLICATIONS, other companies/OSs have a LONG HISTORY of refering the software you use on THEIR platform(s) as Programs.

Suddenly the rise in popularity of smart phones, be it the iPhone or otherwise makes the term APP popular. APPLE decided to use "There's an APP for that" as a marketing slogan to promote the variety of small APPlications or APPs available for the iPhone.

Windows 7 comes out. Still calling them Programs at THE USER LEVEL, I'll spell this out, that's the MENU you go to to open SOFTWARE which ON A USER LEVEL is refered to platform wide as PROGRAMS.

Other mobile platforms gain in popularity and the term APP becomes the generic term for mobile software. I'm not disputing this and haven't at any point disputed this.

Windows 8 comes out. Kindle becomes more than an ebook reader and suddenly Amazon have Appstore, Microsoft throw away 18 years of Windows USER LEVEL naming conventions and start calling PROGRAMS, APPs.

You might notice I've done nothing but REACT to nonsense, rather than try and get a reaction. There's enough nitpicking drivel being spouted for me to REACT to already without me purposefully inviting it

No one has disputed any of the things you just stated, only that it would be a valid argument for granting Apple a trademark for "app store".

Digital Skunk · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
that's exactly what i'm saying and i'm citing the long history of, on a user level, apple operating systems have always run applications, other platforms have run program's and only since the iphone and subsequent popularity of calling all software apps, have other companies jumped on the bandwagon. It's who came first to popularise the term that's the issue.

hahahahaahhahahahahaahahahahahaha

barkmonster · Jan 9, 2013

Lennholm said:
No, that's not the only point you're making. If it was it would simply be off topic, but in your last reply to me you clearly stated that your point is that Apple should be granted a trademark for the descriptive and generic term "app store" on the basis that they simply popularized the term "app", which is ridiculous.

--------------

No one has disputed any of the things you just stated, only that it would be a valid argument for granting Apple a trademark for "app store".

Apple clearly have prior use of the term App Store and I'm simply stating that they have a long prior history of consistently refering to software as Apps on their various OSs where as other companies vary to some degree.

Renzatic · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
No it basically ISN'T my argument at all. What I'm saying is this:

APPLE in their OSs, be it iOS or Mac OS or Mac OS X, pick one, I don't care, it doesn't matter, have a LONG HISTORY of refering to the software you use on their platform(s) as APPLICATIONS, other companies/OSs have a LONG HISTORY of refering the software you use on THEIR platform(s) as Programs.

Suddenly the rise in popularity of smart phones, be it the iPhone or otherwise makes the term APP popular. APPLE decided to use "There's an APP for that" as a marketing slogan to promote the variety of small APPlications or APPs available for the iPhone.

Windows 7 comes out. Still calling them Programs at THE USER LEVEL, I'll spell this out, that's the MENU you go to to open SOFTWARE which ON A USER LEVEL is refered to platform wide as PROGRAMS.

Other mobile platforms gain in popularity and the term APP becomes the generic term for mobile software. I'm not disputing this and haven't at any point disputed this.

Windows 8 comes out. Kindle becomes more than an ebook reader and suddenly Amazon have Appstore, Microsoft throw away 18 years of Windows USER LEVEL naming conventions and start calling PROGRAMS, APPs.

You might notice I've done nothing but REACT to nonsense, rather than try and get a reaction. There's enough nitpicking drivel being spouted for me to REACT to already without me purposefully inviting it

*cough* *cough* ...memememe...*ahem*...

YOUR ARGUMENT HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG ON COUNTLESS OCCASIONS WITHIN THE LAST THREE PAGES OF THIS THREAD! REPEATING THE SAME TIRED SPIEL OVER AND OVER AGAIN WILL NOT MAGICALLY MAKE IT CORRECT! UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE WRONG, AND MOVE ON! OR AT THE VERY LEAST TRY TO VARY THINGS UP A BIT SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOU'RE STUCK IN A DESPERATE RUT!

Cuz some people just don't get the hint until you yell it at them.

KnightWRX · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
APPLE in their OSs, be it iOS or Mac OS or Mac OS X, pick one, I don't care, it doesn't matter, have a LONG HISTORY of refering to the software you use on their platform(s) as APPLICATIONS, other companies/OSs have a LONG HISTORY of refering the software you use on THEIR platform(s) as Programs.

And so do everyone else in the computing industry. Again, explain the 1960 Book titled Computer Applications (again, for your viewing pleasure ):

Until you do, you're the only here spouting nonsense. You'll be moved to ignore if you keep it up. (Now this thread is starting to sound like a broken record... really...). Do you understand the VCR yet Bark ? Do you ?

Renzatic · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
Apple clearly have prior use of the term App Store and I'm simply stating that they have a long prior history of consistently refering to software as Apps on their various OSs where as other companies vary to some degree.

It doesn't matter how often company A used the word as opposed to company B. The only thing that does is that it's a commonly used term that has widespread usage in the computer industry, and thus isn't eligible for a trademark.

KnightWRX · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
Apple clearly have prior use of the term App Store and I'm simply stating that they have a long prior history of consistently refering to software as Apps on their various OSs where as other companies vary to some degree.

Apple has no prior use of the term "App Store" before 2008. Not that I'm aware of.

barkmonster · Jan 9, 2013

Renzatic said:
*cough* *cough* ...memememe...*ahem*...

YOUR ARGUMENT HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG ON COUNTLESS OCCASIONS WITHIN THE LAST THREE PAGES OF THIS THREAD! REPEATING THE SAME TIRED SPIEL OVER AND OVER AGAIN WILL NOT MAGICALLY MAKE IT CORRECT! UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE WRONG, AND MOVE ON! OR AT THE VERY LEAST TRY TO VARY THINGS UP A BIT SO IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOU'RE STUCK IN A DESPERATE RUT!

Cuz some people just don't get the hint until you yell it at them. Image

Understand that the best thing about opinions is that you're free to completely ignore them and what you've claimed there is that your opinion is the same as some other people's opinions. Nothing more and nothing that shouting will change.

KnightWRX · Jan 9, 2013

Renzatic said:
It doesn't matter how often company A used the word as opposed to company B. The only thing that does is that it's a commonly used term that has widespread usage in the computer industry, and thus isn't eligible for a trademark.

Application or plain "Apps" isn't even the topic or the issue at all! The guy keeps dragging this thing off-topic.

Let's just say he's right, ignore him and move on before this turns into 400 pages of "Yeah uh, Nyuh uh" as it has been for the last 3 already. He'll never even look at all the evidence and just dismiss and keep spouting his "Apple uses APPlication, Microsoft uses PROGrams" regurgitation.

Digital Skunk · Jan 9, 2013

Renzatic said:
It doesn't matter how often company A used the word as opposed to company B. The only thing that does is that it's a commonly used term that has widespread usage in the computer industry, and thus isn't eligible for a trademark.

Agreed!

Here's another shot just in case our friend up there needs it.

On a side note, the Palm TX had been my DREAM machine and it took the tech industry almost 6 years to finally replace it with the Galaxy Note 2.

KnightWRX · Jan 9, 2013

barkmonster said:
Understand that the best thing about opinions is that you're free to completely ignore them and what you've claimed there is that your opinion is the same as some other people's opinions. Nothing more and nothing that shouting will change.

Actually, we've given you facts. You're the only one here dealing on opinions.

----------

Digital Skunk said:
Agreed, and it's happened to MANY companies and products in the past 60 or so years. Aspirin for example, along with this list.

That is completely wrong and unrelated. Application was never a trademarked term that became genericized. It's not at all like Kleenex or Xerox or Hoover to refer to tissues, copiers or vaccuums. Application, Apps, have all been used to describe software products. Applications = Tissues.

And again for everyone needing a refresher if it hasn't sunk in yet : This thread is not about the words Application or Apps.

barkmonster · Jan 9, 2013

KnightWRX said:
Actually, we've given you facts. You're the only one here dealing on opinions.

Quite the opposite is true.

Judge Dismisses Apple Trademark Claims Against Amazon's Appstore

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