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Old Jan 8, 2013, 07:32 PM   #26
ShiroiShimaTora
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
Apple did not include the radio chip for voice+data on Verizon's LTE network.
That is incorrect. There is no "radio chip for voice+data" for LTE. LTE is a packet-switched data-only network, just like the internet.
Every LTE capable phone on the market today uses Circuit Switched Fallback Mode for calling, which switches off LTE and falls back to the carrier's legacy 2G/3G network. With an iPhone 5 on Verizon or Sprint, this means no simultaneous voice and data, as their primary networks (CDMA/EvDO) does not support it. Other phones on Verizon or Sprint get around this by having two baseband chips, one for CDMA and another for LTE, which is horribly inefficient (Google complaints about the HTC Thunderbolt for examples). The AT&T iPhone 5 on AT&T just happens to use GSM when it falls back, which obviously supports simultaneous voice and data.
The only true way to make a call on an LTE network is with Voice over LTE, which is VOIP (and early tests show it drains battery life just like running a VOIP app). No major carriers have rolled out VoLTE yet (Verizon says late 2013-2014 timeframe), and only a few phones on the market currently support it.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 08:02 PM   #27
Stewie
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Originally Posted by holmstockd View Post
had the iphone 4s in DC when they officially announced it - hope there is real change because the service of "3g" on the 4s sucked at best - from K street nw to SE it was horrible...

but i am sure they will bump it better by the time they officially introduce the apple product line.
I tried them last month and got mostly edge in and around DC. There were a few spots on the streets of Georgetown where I was getting 10+MB down, then I walked into a store and went right to edge.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 10:20 PM   #28
smitty303
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I signed up for T-mobile's Monthly4G on an iPhone 4 last month here in Denver. There is some 3G service, but it is spotty, mainly near downtown. Where I live is all edge, but I do notice that there are some periods at night where my phone changes to 3G periodically. Also, my edge signal wll sometimes drop for no reason after displaying good signal levels. I'm waiting it out as the $30 monthly plan for 100 minutes with unlimited text and 5GB 3G data is cheap enough for me to experiment. Plus, I only had a dumbphone prior to this so even edge coverage allows me more connectivity with others is text and email. I don't have wifi available at work.

Fingers crossed.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:47 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillie View Post

If I am not mistaken, the iPhone 4S and earlier are only compatible with T-Mobiles Edge network. The iPhone 5 is the one that is supposed to be comparable with their newer higher speed networks. There was even an article on MacRumors discussing this. I know several people that use older iPhones on T-Mobile, and they just don't care about the slower data rates.t=1437394&highlight=iphone+t-mobile[/url]
The iPhone 4S also supports T-Mobiles HSPA+ network.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 08:43 AM   #30
bedifferent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiroiShimaTora View Post
That is incorrect. There is no "radio chip for voice+data" for LTE. LTE is a packet-switched data-only network, just like the internet.
Every LTE capable phone on the market today uses Circuit Switched Fallback Mode for calling, which switches off LTE and falls back to the carrier's legacy 2G/3G network. With an iPhone 5 on Verizon or Sprint, this means no simultaneous voice and data, as their primary networks (CDMA/EvDO) does not support it. Other phones on Verizon or Sprint get around this by having two baseband chips, one for CDMA and another for LTE, which is horribly inefficient (Google complaints about the HTC Thunderbolt for examples). The AT&T iPhone 5 on AT&T just happens to use GSM when it falls back, which obviously supports simultaneous voice and data.
Yes, I know the tech involved. However, it was Apple's decision to not include the necessary [small] tech in the 5 for it to allow "rolling back" to the carriers legacy network. This is a limitation imposed by Apple with the hardware of the latest iPhone. You are correct, I was mistaken (too much tech talk, my blond brain can't handle it lol), it relates to the ANTENNAE not the radio CHIP. I could have sworn I read a quote from Schiller regarding the Broadcomm radio chip not including the ability to rollback to their legacy network while on voice (meaning, AT&T uses GSM and LTE/3G/etc for simultaneous voice+data, while non-GSM - i.e. CDMA - networks would require extra hardware for this to occur). However, I must have mistaken that with NFC discussions as there seemed to be so much occurring at the time of release.

Quote:
Update: According to The New York Times, it was Apple's choice to prevent Sprint and Verizon phones from using both LTE data and voice on simultaneously. Because the LTE network only supports data and not voice, Apple would have to add a third antenna to the iPhone 5 to allow both LTE data and CDMA voice together.

An Apple spokeswoman told The Times, "It is not yet possible to do simultaneous voice and data on networks that use CDMA for voice and LTE for data in a single radio design."
Source:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/13/...oice-and-data/

Quote:
An Apple spokeswoman, Natalie Kerris, put it this way: “iPhone 5 supports simultaneous voice and data on GSM-based 3G and LTE networks. It is not yet possible to do simultaneous voice and data on networks that use CDMA for voice and LTE for data in a single radio design.”
Source:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...-5-calls-data/

Quote:
Talk and surf • Verizon may be the first in Utah with a 4G LTE network but it has one big disadvantage when it comes to the iPhone 5. You can’t talk and surf the Web at the same time on the device. On the AT&T 4G network, you will. That’s a limitation more related to the iPhone 5’s design than the network itself. On some phones, such as the Samsung Galaxy S III, you can talk and surf the Web simultaneously on Verizon’s network. This may be an issue if you frequently talk on the phone and need to, say, check movie times.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 10:49 AM   #31
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Never had good luck with t-mobile.

Hopefully they have improved thier coverage area.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 01:02 PM   #32
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T-Mobile's been nothing but great around Chicago, and especially now on 3G (for an old JB'd 3GS phone I got).

Nothing but great Customer Service as well...

I use an old plan with 1000 voice, 1000 text, and unlimited web for $65/month WITH taxes.

I don't understand these AT&T and Verizon users giving those companies almost $100/month after taxes for their iPhones and getting nothing but bad customer service (my friends just got scammed at their Verizon store that said they couldn't get a FREE iPhone as their contract was up and wanted to go back to one after leaving AT&T and Verizon had no iPhones back then).
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 02:35 PM   #33
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I'm really glad T-Mobile is getting their act together. I've been with AT&T since switching from T-Mo for the original iPhone.

In July '11 I moved into a new house with sketchy AT&T service and they promised me that a new tower was due to be completed by the end of the year that would improve things. Here we are a year after when AT&T said the tower would be complete and it's still not up and running. Now they're saying it should be complete by the end of 2013. At this point I highly doubt it. I have a micro-cell, which helps, but my call drops every time I switch from it to the main network, despite having decent signal when that happens.

To make matters worse, AT&T claims that I live in an area that has 4G with enhanced backhaul (i.e. HSPA+), yet I still get no more than 2Mbps download speeds. In fact, they actually claim to have LTE in the area, but if my 4S can't even get HSPA+ speeds, I highly doubt I'll actually get LTE speeds.

All of these... less than truthful communications about their network plans and capabilities in my area have me eager to switch as soon as my contract expires. I was plenty satisfied with T-Mobile before, and would be more than happy to give them another try.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 04:30 PM   #34
certsoft
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What I find strange is that when I log into my T-Mobile account and try to select what phone I'm using they don't even have a selection for Apple phones.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 05:08 PM   #35
hchung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
Yes, I know the tech involved. However, it was Apple's decision to not include the necessary [small] tech in the 5 for it to allow "rolling back" to the carriers legacy network. This is a limitation imposed by Apple with the hardware of the latest iPhone. You are correct, I was mistaken (too much tech talk, my blond brain can't handle it lol), it relates to the ANTENNAE not the radio CHIP. I could have sworn I read a quote from Schiller regarding the Broadcomm radio chip not including the ability to rollback to their legacy network while on voice (meaning, AT&T uses GSM and LTE/3G/etc for simultaneous voice+data, while non-GSM - i.e. CDMA - networks would require extra hardware for this to occur). However, I must have mistaken that with NFC discussions as there seemed to be so much occurring at the time of release.

Source:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/13/...oice-and-data/

Source:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...-5-calls-data/
It's Qualcomm, not Broadcom.

I've heard similar stuff, but on a more technical discussion.
If I recall, the Qualcomm chipset supports 2 antennas.
Doing simultaneous voice/data on Verizon would require that one antenna connects to the CDMA network. The other antenna connects to LTE.

In theory it's possible to do. Except there's one other thing. We know Apple's using both antennas for diversity, which means that it's using two antennas to handle the cell connection instead of one. Antenna diversity makes use of the distance between two antennas and enables several other ways of processing a signal to decrease noise. It's like the use of multiple microphones for noise cancellation, but with radios instead.

This means that the 2 antennas supported by the baseband are already in use. It's also possible that for antenna diversity to work, the hardware has to be wired that way, so it's not like you can switch between the two modes through software.

In other words, some team at Apple was faced with a question: Simultaneous voice/data or superior reception and battery life? Pick one.

(I can't verify this, was only just an observer in a discussion amongst non-apple EE/wireless people.)
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 05:17 PM   #36
bedifferent
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Originally Posted by hchung View Post
It's Qualcomm, not Broadcom.
Ah, thank you. I swear, I can't keep up any more. So many names and so much tech changing almost daily, it's a full time job just to stay abreast of minor news.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 01:19 PM   #37
amApple
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My plan with T-mobile

$30 a month

100 minutes that I can refill
unlimited data and text, they throttle after a certain amount and I can only get on Edge for now where I live.

But this cut my bill more than 2/3 for about the same service.

When they intro the phone I hope they get 4G in my area, guy at the store said they are upgrading the networks.

I won't be going anywhere at this price, too many hot spots available to justify 90+ dollars a month.

I did buy an unlocked 5 when they came out and had to get a nano sim stapler to cut the sim and file it down a little because I already had a sim for my old iPhone 3g. It works, calls are fine, texts are fine, data is slow but it works for what I need.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 01:28 PM   #38
hchung
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Originally Posted by bedifferent View Post
Ah, thank you. I swear, I can't keep up any more. So many names and so much tech changing almost daily, it's a full time job just to stay abreast of minor news.
Haha, yeah, totally understandable. The names are similar and they're both significant players competing in some of the same markets. It gets even more confusing when somebody mixes up Marvell's and Broadcom's products since they overlap even more.
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 08:56 PM   #39
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Blistering 2G

They really have beat all expectations of the clown core we assembled to laugh at them publicly all over the country, as they have lied their way up and down both coasts, and all over the middle of the country. It's like they just have a "LIE TO EVERYONE' banner up in their HQ And in the back rooms of ALL retail outlets... They are just liars..

For iPhones coast-to-coat, not a single device has ever displayed 4G or LTE from being connected to a T-Mumble network. And, unless it's on paper as a display somewhere, never will...

They are just LIARS. Don't fall for there lies.

Last edited by Bwinski; Jan 11, 2013 at 08:57 PM. Reason: Sp.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:14 PM   #40
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More marketing platitudes built on marshmallows and piles of fom...

If users are fine being forced back into cauldrons of 2G EDGE blazing speed, then they'll listen to this t-mumble trash 'till they have to leave the party. I didn't come to the party to have my boots pee'd on...I came to get commitments to action thru action not smoke.

The message to the t-mumble clown core - gt to work or perish...
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 06:28 PM   #41
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If users are fine being forced back into cauldrons of 2G EDGE blazing speed, then they'll listen to this t-mumble trash 'till they have to leave the party. I didn't come to the party to have my boots pee'd on...I came to get commitments to action thru action not smoke.

The message to the t-mumble clown core - gt to work or perish...
Drove around with my test SIM from t-mobile this weekend. 6 Months ago, there wasn't 3G to be found (1900 AWS). Now, it's about 50% covered. It's getting good, give it time. 2G is just a term, a lot of time Edge beats out CDMA "3G".
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