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View Poll Results: What do you think will happen to the non-retina MacBook Pro at the next refresh?
It will be discontinued in favor of the retina models 99 37.64%
It will stick around for another rev 93 35.36%
It will co-exist with the retina models for the foreseeable future 71 27.00%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Jan 3, 2013, 11:09 AM   #51
Yebubbleman
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Originally Posted by Liquinn View Post
I own the 13" cMBP and I do like the fact I can upgrade it a few years down the line. It'll be sad to see the cMBPs go - if I wanted a thin laptop I would have bought the Air.

I wish Apple would allow me to pay extra to have the retina display on a cMBP. Then those who want the thin-ness can have it and those who want the upgrades can.

Just my thoughts.

I have a feeling Apple will discontinue the cMBPs this year.
I am in complete agreement with everything you said here. Irritating that Apple is dead-set on this MacBook Air-influenced "future" of notebooks.

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Originally Posted by GZR View Post
I think the 13" will definitely stick around for another revision next year and will serve as an affordable entry Pro or be rebranded as a Macbook. I think the 15" will disappear next year.
This is certainly an interesting and a plausible theory given that the 13" MacBook Pro, according to Phil Schiller at that last keynote, is the most popular Mac, and that changing anything anywhere near that drastic would probably require a more gradual transition than the simple discontinuation that they'll more than likely do to the 15" cMBP this year. I feel like it'd be smart of Apple to do that given that the 15" rMBP is much more fairly priced than the 13" rMBP. But we'll see. I don't think they'll rebrand the 13" cMBP as "MacBook", though from a marketing standpoint, it'd make some sense.

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Originally Posted by brig2221 View Post
I thought I would add my two cents here.

I have owned computers for a long time now, and I have never upgraded any of them (one might say I was your average Joe in computer terms). However, as technology has been rapidly changing, I have now really learned to appreciate the ability to perform user upgrades, and as such, I decided to purchase a 13" cMBP as opposed to the current Retina offering.

I purchased the entry level model at $1,199. I have since ordered a 16GB Corsair RAM upgrade kit for $65, and a 256GB Crucial M4 SSD for another $200. Once the upgrades are completed, I will only be set back $1,465 in total.

I priced out a "comparable" Retina version (RAM and SSD), and it came out at $2,000 with a Max of 8GB of RAM!

Granted, I don't get the Retina screen, which undoubtedly is beautiful, and the smaller form factor and weight. However, I'm more than happy that I have an opportunity to upgrade the RAM and SSD myself and turn this little bugger into a powerhouse within my own budget.

I'm guessing the classic model's days are numbered.
The other thing to bear in mind here is that the pricing of the 13" retina model is insane compared to the 15" retina model's pricing (with respect to their non-retina counterparts). It has been noted across review sites everywhere that it is the single worst deal out of any Mac notebook in Apple's line today. Whether that is meant to test the marketing viability of the eventual successor to their most popular Mac or not, that remains to be seen. Still, either way, they need to bring the price down before most people give it a shot over a 13" Air or non-retina 13" Pro.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 12:13 PM   #52
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I am in complete agreement with everything you said here. Irritating that Apple is dead-set on this MacBook Air-influenced "future" of notebooks.

This is certainly an interesting and a plausible theory given that the 13" MacBook Pro, according to Phil Schiller at that last keynote, is the most popular Mac, and that changing anything anywhere near that drastic would probably require a more gradual transition than the simple discontinuation that they'll more than likely do to the 15" cMBP this year. I feel like it'd be smart of Apple to do that given that the 15" rMBP is much more fairly priced than the 13" rMBP. But we'll see. I don't think they'll rebrand the 13" cMBP as "MacBook", though from a marketing standpoint, it'd make some sense.

The other thing to bear in mind here is that the pricing of the 13" retina model is insane compared to the 15" retina model's pricing (with respect to their non-retina counterparts). It has been noted across review sites everywhere that it is the single worst deal out of any Mac notebook in Apple's line today. Whether that is meant to test the marketing viability of the eventual successor to their most popular Mac or not, that remains to be seen. Still, either way, they need to bring the price down before most people give it a shot over a 13" Air or non-retina 13" Pro.
I know what you mean. I'm thinking on purchasing a 15" cMBP and 15" rMBP in the future so then I have both.

Shame that Apple's going into this direction.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 12:44 PM   #53
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Apple have always had two lines of machines pro and consumer, lets go back a generation here the white entry level macbook (most popular portable mac before it was discontinued) was discontinued in 2011 why? Because apple felt the 11inch air should be the new entry level portable consumer mac at $999. Besides the cmbp 13 was always a tarted up white mb. This should mean that the 13inch air will become the entry level consumer mac at $1199 which is currently the same price as the 13inch pro. The air won't get retina as that is a pro feature that will be one of the major differences between the air (consumer) and pro (professional). As most of you should know the air is not much slower than the 13 cmbp, geekbench for $1199 cmbp 6662 and for the $1199 air 6034, and most consumers will happilly trade a little performance for the thinner, lighter design. Also apple loves the all flash architecture which the air is and the cmbp isn't, they didn't even give the cmbp mag safe 2 (which the air got even thought its the same design as 2011 and of corse the rmbp got it) showing that the cmbp days are numbered because they didn't want to change the casing and the tooling in anyway. So keeping costs down.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 12:49 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by chibiterasu View Post
they didn't even give the cmbp mag safe 2 (which the air got even thought its the same design as 2011 and of corse the rmbp got it) showing that the cmbp days are numbered.
I don't know 100% for sure if this is correct, but if so, is very telling IMHO. Good catch if true!
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 12:58 PM   #55
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I don't know 100% for sure if this is correct, but if so, is very telling IMHO. Good catch if true!
Sure is, if you scroll down to connections and expansion its labeled MagSafe 2 on air and MagSafe on cmbp

air link: http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html
cmbp link: http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:10 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by brig2221 View Post
I thought I would add my two cents here.

I have owned computers for a long time now, and I have never upgraded any of them (one might say I was your average Joe in computer terms). However, as technology has been rapidly changing, I have now really learned to appreciate the ability to perform user upgrades, and as such, I decided to purchase a 13" cMBP as opposed to the current Retina offering.

I purchased the entry level model at $1,199. I have since ordered a 16GB Corsair RAM upgrade kit for $65, and a 256GB Crucial M4 SSD for another $200. Once the upgrades are completed, I will only be set back $1,465 in total.

I priced out a "comparable" Retina version (RAM and SSD), and it came out at $2,000 with a Max of 8GB of RAM!

Granted, I don't get the Retina screen, which undoubtedly is beautiful, and the smaller form factor and weight. However, I'm more than happy that I have an opportunity to upgrade the RAM and SSD myself and turn this little bugger into a powerhouse within my own budget.

I'm guessing the classic model's days are numbered.
Totally agree! Being able to upgrade doesn't just mean doing it in 2-3 years. Sure, you can "max out" a rMBP too, but it will cost you an arm and a leg, and the base version isn't cheap to begin with. The current base 15" cMBP (2.3 Ghz) can be upgraded with a 500GB SSD and 16GB of memory for less than $450 (3rd party, NOT Apple). You can't even get 500GB SSD in the base rMBP, you have to go to the next one up (2.6Ghz), and you tack on 16GB RAM (which you MUST do now if you ever want 16GB), and you're at $3k. Meanwhile, if I go refurbished, I can have 500GB SSD, 16GB RAM 15" cMBP for around $2K, and buy a 27" external TB display for still cheaper than a comparable rMBP.

It's nice having choices, but I too agree that these will soon be taken away if you want to buy a Mac.

I think Apple will only nix the cMBP when they can sell the rMBP starting around $1800 (15"), basically $100 or so higher than current prices of cMBP, and keep their profits margins. No way they nix the cMBP and leave the same price gap between MBA and rMBP.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 11:30 AM   #57
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Again, when the minimum RAM requirement for OS X bumps up to 4GB, users who bought 2010 and 2011 MacBook Airs and DIDN'T configure them to 4GB at the time of purchase will be screwed out of that upgrade, which will, sooner rather than later, eventually leave them out of updates to basic software like Safari, iTunes, and Adobe Flash Player. Similarly, way down the road when 16GB becomes a minimum requirement, those who bought 15" rMBPs with only 8GB of RAM will be left out, whereas with machines with removable RAM, a $60 upgrade kit (if that much) could squeeze an extra year or two out of a machine. Given that these can cost a pretty penny to only last around 5-6 years, that's huge.
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Originally Posted by Yebubbleman View Post
I am in complete agreement with everything you said here. Irritating that Apple is dead-set on this MacBook Air-influenced "future" of notebooks.


The other thing to bear in mind here is that the pricing of the 13" retina model is insane compared to the 15" retina model's pricing (with respect to their non-retina counterparts). It has been noted across review sites everywhere that it is the single worst deal out of any Mac notebook in Apple's line today. Whether that is meant to test the marketing viability of the eventual successor to their most popular Mac or not, that remains to be seen. Still, either way, they need to bring the price down before most people give it a shot over a 13" Air or non-retina 13" Pro.
Regarding OS X, now that we have annual updates, expect Apple to try to push users to upgrade their machines more often than in the past. Even Mountain Lion dropped some 2007 Mac Pros. Something else will probably be the cutoff long before 4GB vs 8GB or 8GB vs 16GB.

As for the Air, I knew back in 2008 this is where Apple was heading. It is a very attractive form factor. Although those early models were flawed (though my late 2008 with SSD served me well), today the MBA and base rMBP have enough power for the vast majority of the Mac's target market.

The 13" rMBP is $200 more than a comparable cMBP, $337 if you factor in the Superdrive and Thunderbolt adapters for FireWire and Gigabit Ethernet if you need them. Most users probably won't need all of them, and there are cheap DVD drives available from just about anywhere for people who want one just in case. It is clearly a premium, but not "insane." There will be room for Apple to come down in price, but clearly now with limited supplies of displays the premium pricing is justified. Apple will probably attempt to ramp up demand gradually.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 12:50 PM   #58
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Pricing, pricing, pricing. They are not willing to lose out on thousands of customers, just to have only the best of the best available for the crowd. And yes, a lot of people choose the cMBP because of the price-tag. A lot of people see no use for SSD's and retina displays yet, and therefore go for a cheaper option. A lot of people want a mac, but cannot afford the most expensive models right there and then.
And for Apple, the most important thing is not only to earn the most money (which i guess they still do on the cMBP's anyways), but to get OSX and Mac's out to the people, so they turn away from Windows-based machines. And with a somewhat cheaper Pro-model, they can do just that. Having only the retina and the air models to choose from would be a bad move for now since people have a wide variety of price-efficient Windows-based computers to choose from that does exactly what a cMBP can do, and that's still something a lot of people need and want. I'm guessing they might fade it out over a few years, but i think we'll have cMBP's with us a couple of more years.
I have to agree with this. I'm not a retina customer for two reasons. One, I don't need that screen. I'm perfectly happy with the cMBP screen. Two, I will not buy a laptop that I can't upgrade/repair myself. I manage to get years out of all my computers by upgrading whatever can be upgraded by me. I still have a dv6000 HP from 2005 that still works okay. Actually 3 reasons as price factors into it. If I purchase the lower spec'd cMBP but with an upgraded CPU and GPU, I can easily upgrade the RAM and storage however I want for a lot less than what Apple charges. In retrospect this is exactly why I think Apple designed the rMBP the way they did. They want you to buy the upgrades from them. I'm not willing to do that.

If I'm forced into a MacBook that is essentially a throw away, I'm walking away from Apple for good. Don't get me wrong, I love Apple products but I don't like where they are headed both with the OS's and the hardware. I was going to buy the new iMac until I saw what they introduced. I'm not a fan of making things lighter and thinner just for the sake of it and for bragging rights.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 03:54 AM   #59
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If I purchase the lower spec'd cMBP but with an upgraded CPU and GPU, I can easily upgrade the RAM and storage however I want for a lot less than what Apple charges. In retrospect this is exactly why I think Apple designed the rMBP the way they did. They want you to buy the upgrades from them. I'm not willing to do that.
Big IF there. You can't upgrade the lower spec'd cMBP with better CPU and GPU. The 2.3ghz / 0.5GB VRAM cMBP is locked. You need to start off with a 2.6Ghz model which is not that cheap anymore - 2199$, like baseline retina.
For 100$ more, you can update the retina to 2.6Ghz. You get the EXACT same computer except with retina display. If you upgrade cMBP to HiRes display (which makes sense) you are on the exact same price, again...
But you end up with a 750GB 5k4 drive instead of 256GB SSD. So you are paying the same for less performance if you want a decent cMBP... C'mon, even I in 2008 uMBP have 512MB VRAM.

Considering 2.3 to 2.6 is 100$, 4gb to 8gb ram is 100$, apple is basically charging you 100$ for 0.5GB VRAM on the high-end cMBP. 500GB and 750GB disks cost practically the same today, 10$ difference, so i'll consider it negligible...

They did that on purpose, so people who want something "more" would reconsider retina. They are pushing the retina.

On the other hand you CAN upgrade the base rMBP to fastest CPU and RAM, because it comes with 1GB VRAM by default. I did just that, to upgrade the SSD with 3rd party vendors...

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If I'm forced into a MacBook that is essentially a throw away, I'm walking away from Apple for good. Don't get me wrong, I love Apple products but I don't like where they are headed both with the OS's and the hardware. I was going to buy the new iMac until I saw what they introduced. I'm not a fan of making things lighter and thinner just for the sake of it and for bragging rights.
Me neither. But that still doesn't mean that cMBP is fairly priced. It's most certainly not, they're overcharging it so much it hurts.

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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:16 AM   #60
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Big IF there. You can't upgrade the lower spec'd cMBP with better CPU and GPU. The 2.3ghz / 0.5GB VRAM cMBP is locked. You need to start off with a 2.6Ghz model which is not that cheap anymore - 2199$, like baseline retina.
For 100$ more, you can update the retina to 2.6Ghz. You get the EXACT same computer except with retina display. If you upgrade cMBP to HiRes display (which makes sense) you are on the exact same price, again...
But you end up with a 750GB 5k4 drive instead of 256GB SSD. So you are paying the same for less performance if you want a decent cMBP... C'mon, even I in 2008 uMBP have 512MB VRAM.

Considering 2.3 to 2.6 is 100$, 4gb to 8gb ram is 100$, apple is basically charging you 100$ for 0.5GB VRAM on the high-end cMBP. 500GB and 750GB disks cost practically the same today, 10$ difference, so i'll consider it negligible...

They did that on purpose, so people who want something "more" would reconsider retina. They are pushing the retina.

On the other hand you CAN upgrade the base rMBP to fastest CPU and RAM, because it comes with 1GB VRAM by default. I did just that, to upgrade the SSD with 3rd party vendors...


Me neither. But that still doesn't mean that cMBP is fairly priced. It's most certainly not, they're overcharging it so much it hurts.
Oh I agree with you 100%. When Apple introduced the retina they managed to raise the price on the cMBP without anyone noticing. Back in 2011 I was considering buying a new one and I remember doing the calculations on what I would want and it amounted to around $2300-$2400 total. Today the same MBP is $2600-$2700 and prices on RAM and SSD are substantially less.

The one thing I disagree with you is that I wouldn't be getting the same exact thing if I jumped to the base retina. I highly value the ability to upgrade it and having the option of keeping the OOD or using the space for additional storage. And as much as everyone here things Ethernet is ancient I still prefer that over WiFi when possible.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:37 AM   #61
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Oh I agree with you 100%. When Apple introduced the retina they managed to raise the price on the cMBP without anyone noticing. Back in 2011 I was considering buying a new one and I remember doing the calculations on what I would want and it amounted to around $2300-$2400 total. Today the same MBP is $2600-$2700 and prices on RAM and SSD are substantially less.

The one thing I disagree with you is that I wouldn't be getting the same exact thing if I jumped to the base retina. I highly value the ability to upgrade it and having the option of keeping the OOD or using the space for additional storage. And as much as everyone here things Ethernet is ancient I still prefer that over WiFi when possible.
Well with retina you get to keep the 256GB SSD if you upgrade via OWC, which is not too shabby either, so we'll call it even there.
The only thing I do miss is another drive slot, even if it is apple proprietary type. Rip out one battery cell and put another SSD there damn it!

I also prefer Ethernet. I have no idea why apple didn't make a combo FW800+Ethernet adapter. If you want both you use up all your TB ports... I know most of people NEVER need either of them, but some of us like them, and then are either forced to give one up or pay ridiculous prices for vaporware docks.

Another thing, due to improved thermals GPU on the rMBP is clocked slightly higher. (10-15% or so i believe)
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 07:46 AM   #62
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Well with retina you get to keep the 256GB SSD if you upgrade via OWC, which is not too shabby either, so we'll call it even there.
The only thing I do miss is another drive slot, even if it is apple proprietary type. Rip out one battery cell and put another SSD there damn it!

I also prefer Ethernet. I have no idea why apple didn't make a combo FW800+Ethernet adapter. If you want both you use up all your TB ports... I know most of people NEVER need either of them, but some of us like them, and then are either forced to give one up or pay ridiculous prices for vaporware docks.

Another thing, due to improved thermals GPU on the rMBP is clocked slightly higher. (10-15% or so i believe)
While that is true you're still limited to only one option and OWC is a bit expensive. If they rip out a battery cell you're going to lose a lot of battery time due to the retina screen. I don't think the trade off is worth it plus you would have to pay Apple prices which is not desirable as we've already alluded to.

The one thing I don't understand, and maybe someone can enlighten me on this, is why can't they redesign the Ethernet port to be lower profile? I understand they would have to also design and sell the cable to match or an adapter but then you can still have all the other ports plus the Ethernet. As much as the proponents here and Apple are trying to make Ethernet sound like its useless, I'm willing to bet that it'll be around for quite a while yet. I just think that Apple pulled the plug (yeah yeah, no pun intended) on Ethernet just a bit early.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 07:54 AM   #63
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While that is true you're still limited to only one option and OWC is a bit expensive. If they rip out a battery cell you're going to lose a lot of battery time due to the retina screen. I don't think the trade off is worth it plus you would have to pay Apple prices which is not desirable as we've already alluded to.

The one thing I don't understand, and maybe someone can enlighten me on this, is why can't they redesign the Ethernet port to be lower profile? I understand they would have to also design and sell the cable to match or an adapter but then you can still have all the other ports plus the Ethernet. As much as the proponents here and Apple are trying to make Ethernet sound like its useless, I'm willing to bet that it'll be around for quite a while yet. I just think that Apple pulled the plug (yeah yeah, no pun intended) on Ethernet just a bit early.
OWC is expensive, yeah. I wonder whether anyone else will try to make a rMBP SSD module.
Well again, it depends. I work on power most of the time. I hope to regain with one extra TB port what I lost with one SATA port. :-)
Apple or OWC prices yeah. Not that they're much different...

To be honest would that be any different than a TB>Ethernet dongle? In one way it makes sense to have only "customizable" ports on the machine - everybody connects what he wishes to connect. I wish they would just add one more TB port he he.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 08:10 AM   #64
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OWC is expensive, yeah. I wonder whether anyone else will try to make a rMBP SSD module.
Well again, it depends. I work on power most of the time. I hope to regain with one extra TB port what I lost with one SATA port. :-)
Apple or OWC prices yeah. Not that they're much different...

To be honest would that be any different than a TB>Ethernet dongle? In one way it makes sense to have only "customizable" ports on the machine - everybody connects what he wishes to connect. I wish they would just add one more TB port he he.
You see? That's why with all this said, rather than redesign the retina LOL, I'll just stick with the cMBP for as long as it makes sense to me. Once it becomes unavailable and the only option is the retina in its current design and form oil have to make a tough choice. I just wish I knew for certain if the cMBP will at least get one more refresh.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:21 AM   #65
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I don't know 100% for sure if this is correct, but if so, is very telling IMHO. Good catch if true!
It absolutely is correct. MagSafe 2 are only on the 2012 MacBook Air and the retina MacBook Pros, despite the fact that the MacBook Air chassis was more than fine with the classic MagSafe, and despite the fact that they could've easily outfitted it on the non-retina MacBook Pros. But really, that is fairly telling seeing as we will probably see original MagSafe adapters disappearing from shelves in the same way that 'Book G4 adapters did. Mind you, we have years before that happens, but still, it's obvious that original MagSafe is giving way to MagSafe 2 in the same vein that 'Book G4 chargers and ports gave way to original MagSafe.

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Totally agree! Being able to upgrade doesn't just mean doing it in 2-3 years. Sure, you can "max out" a rMBP too, but it will cost you an arm and a leg, and the base version isn't cheap to begin with. The current base 15" cMBP (2.3 Ghz) can be upgraded with a 500GB SSD and 16GB of memory for less than $450 (3rd party, NOT Apple). You can't even get 500GB SSD in the base rMBP, you have to go to the next one up (2.6Ghz), and you tack on 16GB RAM (which you MUST do now if you ever want 16GB), and you're at $3k. Meanwhile, if I go refurbished, I can have 500GB SSD, 16GB RAM 15" cMBP for around $2K, and buy a 27" external TB display for still cheaper than a comparable rMBP.

It's nice having choices, but I too agree that these will soon be taken away if you want to buy a Mac.

I think Apple will only nix the cMBP when they can sell the rMBP starting around $1800 (15"), basically $100 or so higher than current prices of cMBP, and keep their profits margins. No way they nix the cMBP and leave the same price gap between MBA and rMBP.
They'll lower the rMBP cost fairly quickly, or at least as far as they can given the panels and the mSATA SSDs. Currently, a 15" rMBP is fairly price-competitive with a cMBP equipped with a stock Apple-provided SSD drive. The machine that most badly needs the price drop is the 13" retina, being the worst deal out of any currently-shipping MacBook-branded laptop.

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Regarding OS X, now that we have annual updates, expect Apple to try to push users to upgrade their machines more often than in the past. Even Mountain Lion dropped some 2007 Mac Pros. Something else will probably be the cutoff long before 4GB vs 8GB or 8GB vs 16GB.
First off, I don't remember anyone from Apple saying that updates to OS X are going to be annual; I'm pretty sure this is speculation. That being said, from what I've gathered, Lion was treated by many in the IT/Computer-repair world as Apple's Windows Vista, with many avoiding it and sticking to Snow Leopard, which was regarded as Apple's Windows XP. The impression I got was that they got wind of that and wanted to move quickly to polish Lion with Mountain Lion.

As for the machines that could run Lion but not Mountain Lion, notice that all of those machines had either an ATI Radeon X1xxx graphics board/chip, an Intel GMA 950/X3100, or an NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT (in the case of the base model from the first generation of Mac Pro). What do these graphics boards all have in common? They've been abandoned by their manufacturer in terms of driver support, and with Mountain Lion, Apple finally did away with the 32-bit x86 kernel in favor of only having the 64-bit x86 kernel.

With Leopard, Apple only had the 32-bit kernel. With Snow Leopard, Apple had both, but defaulted to the 32-bit kernel (but would allow those that could run the 64-bit kernel to boot into it). With Lion, Apple had both, but defaulted to the 64-bit kernel unless the Mac couldn't support it, in which case it'd still boot to the 32-bit kernel. With Mountain Lion they removed the 32-bit kernel in favor of only having the 64-bit one. Long story short, that's the only reason why those machines, especially that first generation Mac Pro, are not running Mountain Lion, as there isn't all that much in Mountain Lion that requires having that much more muscle than was required in Lion (hence the RAM requirement not going up).

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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
As for the Air, I knew back in 2008 this is where Apple was heading. It is a very attractive form factor. Although those early models were flawed (though my late 2008 with SSD served me well), today the MBA and base rMBP have enough power for the vast majority of the Mac's target market.

The 13" rMBP is $200 more than a comparable cMBP, $337 if you factor in the Superdrive and Thunderbolt adapters for FireWire and Gigabit Ethernet if you need them. Most users probably won't need all of them, and there are cheap DVD drives available from just about anywhere for people who want one just in case. It is clearly a premium, but not "insane." There will be room for Apple to come down in price, but clearly now with limited supplies of displays the premium pricing is justified. Apple will probably attempt to ramp up demand gradually.
The 13" rMBP is the worst deal out of all the MacBooks currently shipping. Much worse than the 15" rMBP is relative to its classic non-retina unibody counterpart. And yes, I'd use the word insane to describe a machine that starts at $1699 (before any academic discounts are applied, of course) and lacks a graphics processor with discrete video RAM, second highest notebook resolution in the world or not.

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Oh I agree with you 100%. When Apple introduced the retina they managed to raise the price on the cMBP without anyone noticing. Back in 2011 I was considering buying a new one and I remember doing the calculations on what I would want and it amounted to around $2300-$2400 total. Today the same MBP is $2600-$2700 and prices on RAM and SSD are substantially less.
Wait, I'm sorry, how did they raide the price on the cMBP this year? To the best of my knowledge, all they did to the cMBP line in terms of pricing was kill off the 17" model.

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The one thing I disagree with you is that I wouldn't be getting the same exact thing if I jumped to the base retina. I highly value the ability to upgrade it and having the option of keeping the OOD or using the space for additional storage. And as much as everyone here things Ethernet is ancient I still prefer that over WiFi when possible.
Storage is upgradable in the retina, it's just not common. But if you have the right screw-drivers, it's even easier to upgrade than it is in the cMBP; albeit only by virtue of not having to transfer those T6 torx bolts and the pull tab from drive to drive. Really, the major bummer is the integrated RAM. On a MacBook Air, I'd find that acceptible. On a MacBook Pro, not so much.

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Well with retina you get to keep the 256GB SSD if you upgrade via OWC, which is not too shabby either, so we'll call it even there.
The only thing I do miss is another drive slot, even if it is apple proprietary type. Rip out one battery cell and put another SSD there damn it!

I also prefer Ethernet. I have no idea why apple didn't make a combo FW800+Ethernet adapter. If you want both you use up all your TB ports... I know most of people NEVER need either of them, but some of us like them, and then are either forced to give one up or pay ridiculous prices for vaporware docks.

Another thing, due to improved thermals GPU on the rMBP is clocked slightly higher. (10-15% or so i believe)
1. If you upgrade your SSD on an rMBP and then you have to mail in your MacBook Pro to the depot for service, bye bye AppleCare. Otherwise, you're at the mercy of your local AASP or Apple Store to honor your warranty if they find a problem with an unrelated component. This is another advantage that the cMBP has over the rMBP.

2. I agree with your stance on Ethernet, provided I need to do a lot of downloading or file transferring (which I do a lot). When I don't do those things, I'd prefer the convenience of being wireless. Largely though, I agree with your pro-ethernet stance and think that purchasing a Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet adapter should not be a necessity.

3. The GPU may be clocked higher on the rMBP, but the OS still doesn't know how to properly utilize the GPU(s) to draw the higher pixel density. So, it evens out.

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OWC is expensive, yeah. I wonder whether anyone else will try to make a rMBP SSD module.
Well again, it depends. I work on power most of the time. I hope to regain with one extra TB port what I lost with one SATA port. :-)
Apple or OWC prices yeah. Not that they're much different...

To be honest would that be any different than a TB>Ethernet dongle? In one way it makes sense to have only "customizable" ports on the machine - everybody connects what he wishes to connect. I wish they would just add one more TB port he he.
Really, I wish more people made rMBP and MBA SSD modules. I wish I could just go to Fry's and buy a vast selection of them there. Let me fend for myself for the screw driver if Apple wants to keep the illusion of preventing customers from gaining access to the inside of the machine they paid for.

Otherwise I agree completely, there should be a second SATA connection on that machine given the two that are in every other currently shipping non-Air/non-retina/non-MacPro Mac. Alas, thinness wins again. I also agree with your as-many-thunderbolt-ports as possible sentiment, though I believe that there Apple is limited by how many ports the Thunderbolt controller can support.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:41 AM   #66
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The 13" rMBP is the worst deal out of all the MacBooks currently shipping. Much worse than the 15" rMBP is relative to its classic non-retina unibody counterpart. And yes, I'd use the word insane to describe a machine that starts at $1699 (before any academic discounts are applied, of course) and lacks a graphics processor with discrete video RAM, second highest notebook resolution in the world or not.
"Worst deal" or not, after I lost my 2012 MacBook Air I decided to splurge for the 13" rMBP with my insurance proceeds and am glad I did. Even with 2560x1600, except for gamers and those who do a lot of video editing, the HD 4000 puts out acceptable performance. The color gamut is miles ahead of the Air. It's pricey, to be sure, but I'd categorize it like going for the Lexus ES 350 vs. the Toyota Camry. Sure the Camry is technically a better value dollar for dollar, but there's still a market for the Lexus.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 05:49 AM   #67
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1. If you upgrade your SSD on an rMBP and then you have to mail in your MacBook Pro to the depot for service, bye bye AppleCare. Otherwise, you're at the mercy of your local AASP or Apple Store to honor your warranty if they find a problem with an unrelated component. This is another advantage that the cMBP has over the rMBP.

2. I agree with your stance on Ethernet, provided I need to do a lot of downloading or file transferring (which I do a lot). When I don't do those things, I'd prefer the convenience of being wireless. Largely though, I agree with your pro-ethernet stance and think that purchasing a Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet adapter should not be a necessity.

3. The GPU may be clocked higher on the rMBP, but the OS still doesn't know how to properly utilize the GPU(s) to draw the higher pixel density. So, it evens out.
1.you replace it with your original SSD before going to apple care. It doesn't have any stickers or sealants to indicate it was open upon replacing it. The drive in rMBP is AS USER SERVICEABLE as in cMBP. Mind you, the last unibody to have easy access to HDD was the first one (2008) that I currently have. Accessing the drive on the 2012 rMBP or the cMBP voids warranty just the same and takes just the same amount of screws to do. (actually one more on the cMBP)

3. Software will be/already is being updated periodically, so that should go in favor of rMBP sooner or later.


Quote:
Really, I wish more people made rMBP and MBA SSD modules. I wish I could just go to Fry's and buy a vast selection of them there. Let me fend for myself for the screw driver if Apple wants to keep the illusion of preventing customers from gaining access to the inside of the machine they paid for.

Otherwise I agree completely, there should be a second SATA connection on that machine given the two that are in every other currently shipping non-Air/non-retina/non-MacPro Mac. Alas, thinness wins again. I also agree with your as-many-thunderbolt-ports as possible sentiment, though I believe that there Apple is limited by how many ports the Thunderbolt controller can support.
All true.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 01:50 PM   #68
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"Worst deal" or not, after I lost my 2012 MacBook Air I decided to splurge for the 13" rMBP with my insurance proceeds and am glad I did. Even with 2560x1600, except for gamers and those who do a lot of video editing, the HD 4000 puts out acceptable performance. The color gamut is miles ahead of the Air. It's pricey, to be sure, but I'd categorize it like going for the Lexus ES 350 vs. the Toyota Camry. Sure the Camry is technically a better value dollar for dollar, but there's still a market for the Lexus.
I'm not saying that the HD 4000 isn't acceptable for most tasks. It absolutely is. I'm building a PC for my father and it will only have the HD 4000 because the three games that he'll run on it will run acceptably on it and he needs better graphics for literally nothing else. That's not my point. My point is that given the hardware going into that machine, it's the worst use of money. I feel the same way about Lexus vehicles compared to Toyota vehicles. Yes, there will always be a market for people that want to blow money, but that doesn't mean that people in that market aren't doing just that. I don't mean to devalue your purchase; they are beautiful machines, but personally, it takes a good while to save up for such a machine; I cannot afford to spend that much money and not get that much worth of utility out of it.

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1.you replace it with your original SSD before going to apple care. It doesn't have any stickers or sealants to indicate it was open upon replacing it. The drive in rMBP is AS USER SERVICEABLE as in cMBP. Mind you, the last unibody to have easy access to HDD was the first one (2008) that I currently have. Accessing the drive on the 2012 rMBP or the cMBP voids warranty just the same and takes just the same amount of screws to do. (actually one more on the cMBP)
On all non-retina unibody MacBooks and MacBook Pros with the integrated battery, the hard drive is actually considered a user-replacable part, meaning that, like RAM, you can replace your hard drive and not void AppleCare, though no one from either Apple or an AASP will replace your third-party drive under AppleCare. On the retina, my understanding is that this is not the case; nothing is user-replacable (even though, with the right screw-drivers, it's easier to do than the hard drive/SSD on a unibody cMBP). Hence the stupid pentalobe screws.

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3. Software will be/already is being updated periodically, so that should go in favor of rMBP sooner or later.
Oh sure, but it's going to be one of those software transitions (sort of like the move from OS 9 to OS X and the move from PowerPC to Intel) where there will be some older and coveted software that will never make the jump (like older games, Final Cut Studio 3 apps, older versions of Adobe and Microsoft apps, etc.) and will either run (or in this case, "look") like crap until they are finally completely unsupported altogether. Frankly, that, cost, and the elimination of ports that I use regularly are the reasons why I didn't go retina myself when I bought my 2012 15" cMBP this past fall.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 04:28 PM   #69
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I had a similar revelation about the cMBP not having MagSafe 2 the other day as I looked at my own. I think that sign is a telling one about how the Mid 2012 cMBP will be the last of the cMBPs, because of Apple's usual nature to want to move everything over to a new standard (4th Generation iPad, anyone?).

Still, all of this talk makes me really, really happy despite owning a cMBP. I bought the 2.9 GHz i7 13'' version for $1299 refurbished, and since throwing in a Samsung 840 Pro SSD and 16GB of Corsair Vengeance RAM, it screams. It logs a Geekbench score of 8721, which is more powerful than the high end 13'' rMBP. It's a wonderful machine, one I'm very lucky to have, and the fact that things like a MagSafe adaptor or any legacy accessories are cheap now will make me very, very happy.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 04:52 PM   #70
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Or maybe they didn't update the MagSafe because they wanted to get rid of all the unibody cases they had made for the MBP left over if they made the switch?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 06:37 PM   #71
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Or maybe they didn't update the MagSafe because they wanted to get rid of all the unibody cases they had made for the MBP left over if they made the switch?
Also a very good point!
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:40 AM   #72
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I had a similar revelation about the cMBP not having MagSafe 2 the other day as I looked at my own. I think that sign is a telling one about how the Mid 2012 cMBP will be the last of the cMBPs, because of Apple's usual nature to want to move everything over to a new standard (4th Generation iPad, anyone?).
This, I feel is a pretty good indicator. Plus it's not like they're going to introduce a radically different design for the non-retina MacBook Pro, especially when "retina" is not only the future of the line, but also the marquee feature of what is otherwise a drastic redesign.

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Still, all of this talk makes me really, really happy despite owning a cMBP. I bought the 2.9 GHz i7 13'' version for $1299 refurbished, and since throwing in a Samsung 840 Pro SSD and 16GB of Corsair Vengeance RAM, it screams. It logs a Geekbench score of 8721, which is more powerful than the high end 13'' rMBP. It's a wonderful machine, one I'm very lucky to have, and the fact that things like a MagSafe adaptor or any legacy accessories are cheap now will make me very, very happy.
Agreed, the added flexibility that the cMBP has is invaluable, especially when compared to the rMBP and the MBA. Though I fear that most MBP customers will overlook that, which is why Apple is proceeding with the transition to this new body style.

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Or maybe they didn't update the MagSafe because they wanted to get rid of all the unibody cases they had made for the MBP left over if they made the switch?
Very unlikely, the top cases tend to be different parts from rev to rev even if the variation is ever so slight. That's why you can't take an Early 2011 MacBook Pro and swap out the logic board with a Mid 2012 non-retina model of the same size.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:18 AM   #73
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Agreed, the added flexibility that the cMBP has is invaluable, especially when compared to the rMBP and the MBA. Though I fear that most MBP customers will overlook that, which is why Apple is proceeding with the transition to this new body style.
Somehow discrete HDMI + two discrete TB ports seems more flexible than fixed ethernet and FW ports.
More than swappable RAM even so. FLEXIBLE. Not upgradeable.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:58 AM   #74
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I'm saying the BASELINE entry level Airs (11" - 4 GB, 64 GB HD, 13" - 4 GB, 128 GB HD) isn't enough to be anyone's main computer, even the average "consumer."
What rubbish.

The "average" consumer checks email, uses their browser, chats online, reads office docs and pdfs, listens to music, watches movies, TV shows and other media. 4GB of RAM is more than adequate to do that and if they need more space, the "average" consumer is also aware of external drives.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:18 AM   #75
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First off, I don't remember anyone from Apple saying that updates to OS X are going to be annual; I'm pretty sure this is speculation. That being said, from what I've gathered, Lion was treated by many in the IT/Computer-repair world as Apple's Windows Vista, with many avoiding it and sticking to Snow Leopard, which was regarded as Apple's Windows XP. The impression I got was that they got wind of that and wanted to move quickly to polish Lion with Mountain Lion.
No, Apple have confirmed that OS X will follow the same release cycle as iOS (i.e yearly). Given that 10.9 has already started showing up in webserver logs this also supports this.
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