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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:38 AM   #1
KnickFan
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SSD+HDD Installation question

Hello all. Sorry about the redundancy with this topic. I have done a ton of searches, and while many posts where a big help, I still have some questions.

I have a Mid-2010 13" Macbook Pro(Intel) with recently installed 8gb RAM. I just purchased a 256gb ssd. I also just purchased a OWC datadoubler and I am waiting for its arrival.

Here's what I want to do:
I would like to continue to make use of my hdd in addition to installing my new ssd. I would like to install my ssd in the datadoubler in the optical drive and leave my hdd where it currently resides. I prefer this option because I am clumsy and drop my mbp quite often.

I think I would like to do a fresh install of ML on the SSD. I want to boot off of the SSD and use it for OS + apps. I also need Windows 7 through bootcamp and I think I want that on the SSD as well. I would like to use my hdd internally for data and media and stuff. I am not concerned about battery life because my battery already doesn't last long as it is.

Being that windows can not/will not(?) boot from an external drive, I'm not sure how to go about this installation. All I have is a Win7 installation CD and I have no access to a Windows computer at this time. I do have an external hdd if that counts for anything.

Do I need to buy a ssd enclosure? If I do, where do I go from there? TIA.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:04 PM   #2
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You are going to be limited in the SATA connection of the optical bay if you decide to do it this way. I don't personally have a SSD but I've seen reports of errors for newer SSDs in older MBP optical bays. I've also read read of difficulty with a combined bootcamp and OS X SSD in the optical bay.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by brop52 View Post
You are going to be limited in the SATA connection of the optical bay if you decide to do it this way. I don't personally have a SSD but I've seen reports of errors for newer SSDs in older MBP optical bays. I've also read read of difficulty with a combined bootcamp and OS X SSD in the optical bay.
Following up on the post above: Check your System Profiler report (Apple Menu-About This Mac-More information-Hardware-Serial-ATA), the important items are the Link Speed and Negotiated Link Speed. 6 Gigabits is SATA III and 3Gigabits is SATA II. Older models may use SATA I (1.5 Gigabits) for the optical drive. I don't know about the 2010 MBP, you will have to check yourself.
In any case, I doubt it is higher than SATA II in the HD bay, and probably SATA I in the optical bay.
So, best to install the SSD in the HD bay, regardless of whether or not your HD drive has a built in sudden motion sensor. Just stop dropping your Mac! That is a menu for disaster.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:37 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by davidlv View Post
Following up on the post above: Check your System Profiler report (Apple Menu-About This Mac-More information-Hardware-Serial-ATA), the important items are the Link Speed and Negotiated Link Speed. 6 Gigabits is SATA III and 3Gigabits is SATA II. Older models may use SATA I (1.5 Gigabits) for the optical drive. I don't know about the 2010 MBP, you will have to check yourself.
In any case, I doubt it is higher than SATA II in the HD bay, and probably SATA I in the optical bay.
So, best to install the SSD in the HD bay, regardless of whether or not your HD drive has a built in sudden motion sensor. Just stop dropping your Mac! That is a menu for disaster.
I also thought the SMS was in the HDD not the HDD bay.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:39 AM   #5
KnickFan
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Thanks guys. I was under the impression that I would get SATA II in the opitcal bay since I couldnt get SATA III regardless. I will check with the above method anyway.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:14 AM   #6
Mike Boreham
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Thanks guys. I was under the impression that I would get SATA II in the opitcal bay since I couldnt get SATA III regardless. I will check with the above method anyway.
I have put the SSD in the Optical bay of my 2010 17" MBP and it was fine.

But I tried an SSD in the Optical bay of my 2011 17" MBP and it was not detected.

I think it is OK in the Optical of the 2010 machine because it is 3G.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:37 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mike Boreham View Post
I have put the SSD in the Optical bay of my 2010 17" MBP and it was fine.

But I tried an SSD in the Optical bay of my 2011 17" MBP and it was not detected.

I think it is OK in the Optical of the 2010 machine because it is 3G.
thanks and you got sata ii speeds and not sata i?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:42 AM   #8
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install the OS and apps on the SSD tho
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:54 AM   #9
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install the OS and apps on the SSD tho
how do i get windows on it without the optical drive?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:17 PM   #10
Mike Boreham
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Originally Posted by KnickFan View Post
thanks and you got sata ii speeds and not sata i?
Yes it was 3G to 3G in System Report. I have moved on from this set up now, so can't test anything.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnickFan View Post
how do i get windows on it without the optical drive?
I have been in this bind before. Windows won't install from USB (except possibly the larest macs supplied with optical drives).

My solution was to switch to Parallels, and I have never regretted it. I was fixated on the idea that I had to have Bootcamp for ultimate performance, but Parallels has come along way in speed since it's early days. My Parallels Windows 7 VM 64 bit scores 6.6 on the Windows Performance Monitor.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:57 PM   #11
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Parallels worked great for me also. Use disk utility and make a disk image of your windows install disk before you remove the optical drive. Parallels will install windows from the disk image.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 04:32 PM   #12
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thanks guys but my professors told us we can't run our course programs on parallels. Still looking for a way to get windows and the mac os on the ssd before I put it in the optical drive.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 04:59 PM   #13
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After you get ML installed and booted from the SSD, run the Bootcamp Assistant to install Windows 7. The Bootcamp Assistant will create a bootable USB key from which you can install Windows 7. The key will also have a folder that will have the latest Bootcamp drivers for Windows 7 in it.

Note: You will need a USB key (I used an 8GB one, as I now only have either 8GB or larger, or 2GB ones laying around, and 2GB was too small. Not sure if 4GB will be large enough) and a Windows 7 ISO image.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by KnickFan View Post
thanks guys but my professors told us we can't run our course programs on parallels. Still looking for a way to get windows and the mac os on the ssd before I put it in the optical drive.
sounds like ********* to me. a vm is just like a regulare instalation execpt it is within another os
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:13 PM   #15
Mike Boreham
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Originally Posted by duervo View Post
After you get ML installed and booted from the SSD, run the Bootcamp Assistant to install Windows 7. The Bootcamp Assistant will create a bootable USB key from which you can install Windows 7. The key will also have a folder that will have the latest Bootcamp drivers for Windows 7 in it.

Note: You will need a USB key (I used an 8GB one, as I now only have either 8GB or larger, or 2GB ones laying around, and 2GB was too small. Not sure if 4GB will be large enough) and a Windows 7 ISO image.
None of my macs has ever been able to boot Windows from a USB device, either key or external optical. That's been true of macs for a long time, but may not be true of the latest generation MBA, rMBP and Mac Mini which all ship without internal optical, so must have some way of installing Windows.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:36 PM   #16
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None of my macs has ever been able to boot Windows from a USB device, either key or external optical. That's been true of macs for a long time, but may not be true of the latest generation MBA, rMBP and Mac Mini which all ship without internal optical, so must have some way of installing Windows.
Well, it works with Bootcamp Assistant generated USB keys in my 2011 Mac mini (and 2012 cMBP) (I haven't tried it yet with the old Early-2008 my wife uses, and don't have much motivation to, tbh.)

As long as your system supports ML, it should work.

Not to mention, I'm referring to Windows 7, not Vista or XP on an older version of BootCamp/OS X.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:43 PM   #17
Mike Boreham
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Well, it works with Bootcamp Assistant generated USB keys in my 2011 Mac mini (and 2012 cMBP) (I haven't tried it yet with the old Early-2008 my wife uses, and don't have much motivation to, tbh.)

As long as your system supports ML, it should work.
I agree that BCA puts the drivers on a USB stick, but how does it manage to put a whole Windows installer on it? where does it come from?

To install Windows on a Mac you need to buy a Windows installer and Windows licence. It is not built into ML BCA.

Feel we must be at cross purposes here!
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:44 PM   #18
KnickFan
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ok I will try the bootcamp assistant, thanks.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:48 PM   #19
duervo
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I agree that BCA puts the drivers on a USB stick, but how does it manage to put a whole Windows installer on it? where does it come from?

To install Windows on a Mac you need to buy a Windows installer and Windows licence. It is not built into ML BCA.

Feel we must be at cross purposes here!
That's why I mentioned that you need a Windows 7 ISO

BootCamp Assistant must do something when it formats they USB key and copies the Windows 7 stuff to it that allows the system to boot from it to do the Windows 7 install.

I haven't looked into much further since my first attempt, other than thinking, "huh ... well, would ya look at that? It's booting off the USB key ... 'bout time."
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:55 PM   #20
Mike Boreham
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That's why I mentioned that you need a Windows 7 ISO

BootCamp Assistant must do something when it formats they USB key and copies the Windows 7 stuff to it that allows the system to boot from it to do the Windows 7 install.

I haven't looked into much further since my first attempt, other than thinking, "huh ... well, would ya look at that? It's booting off the USB key ... 'bout time."
Ah clear now. Thanks and very interesting. So my two MBP (2010 and 2011) with ML on, will boot a USB stick prepared by the ML BCA?

So would you use Disk Utility to put the installer on the USB stick? or does BCA do something magic with the ISO? New territory for me...can you post any links?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 06:12 PM   #21
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I'm not 100% certain about the 2010. But since my 2011 Mac mini worked, I figure it's worth a shot for the 2010, especially since ML is supported on it.

I'm looking at the wife's early-2008 now, because now I'm really curious about that one. It's late Sunday, though ... way too late in the weekend to start something like this.

This is all pertaining BootCamp 4.0 that is part of OS X Mountain Lion.
2. What is new in Boot Camp 4.0?

- Electronic Software Distribution
Use the Boot Camp Assistant to create a CD or USB media to install the latest Boot Camp drivers for your computer. You should get the newest drivers available any time you install Boot Camp.

- Support for the Windows 7 ISO installer
Install Windows with an installation disc you provide or, on Mac computers that do not have an optical drive, with a USB flash drive that contains a Windows 7 ISO image downloaded from Microsoft. The Boot Camp Assistant will offer to create this image on supported computers.

- Upgrade or "clean" install Windows without using the Boot Camp Assistant
If you want only to upgrade the version of Boot Camp or Windows on your Windows partition, you don’t need to use Boot Camp Assistant. Instead, choose Help > Help Center in Finder and search for “upgrade Boot Camp” or “upgrade Windows.”
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4818
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:50 AM   #22
Mike Boreham
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Originally Posted by duervo View Post
I'm not 100% certain about the 2010. But since my 2011 Mac mini worked, I figure it's worth a shot for the 2010, especially since ML is supported on it.

I'm looking at the wife's early-2008 now, because now I'm really curious about that one. It's late Sunday, though ... way too late in the weekend to start something like this.

This is all pertaining BootCamp 4.0 that is part of OS X Mountain Lion.
2. What is new in Boot Camp 4.0?

- Electronic Software Distribution
Use the Boot Camp Assistant to create a CD or USB media to install the latest Boot Camp drivers for your computer. You should get the newest drivers available any time you install Boot Camp.

- Support for the Windows 7 ISO installer
Install Windows with an installation disc you provide or, on Mac computers that do not have an optical drive, with a USB flash drive that contains a Windows 7 ISO image downloaded from Microsoft. The Boot Camp Assistant will offer to create this image on supported computers.

- Upgrade or "clean" install Windows without using the Boot Camp Assistant
If you want only to upgrade the version of Boot Camp or Windows on your Windows partition, you don’t need to use Boot Camp Assistant. Instead, choose Help > Help Center in Finder and search for “upgrade Boot Camp” or “upgrade Windows.”
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4818
Thanks very much! I have done some Googling and looks like a mixed bag of success. Still plenty of references to "supported macs" but not clear to me which stages this may apply to. As I said I am very happy with Parallels, but will try at least and get to a bootable USB Install stick and take stock.
First challenge is to make an ISO from my Windows 7 DVD...Imgburn seems to be the way.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:15 AM   #23
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Thanks very much! I have done some Googling and looks like a mixed bag of success. Still plenty of references to "supported macs" but not clear to me which stages this may apply to. As I said I am very happy with Parallels, but will try at least and get to a bootable USB Install stick and take stock.
First challenge is to make an ISO from my Windows 7 DVD...Imgburn seems to be the way.
I don't this is going to work! I have been trying quite hard on my 2010 MBP and hitting a brick wall. This 2010 MBP has an SSD in the hard drive bay and a Data Doubler in the optical bay, so no optical drive.

Steps I have done:
1. loaded windows 7 ISO onto USB stick formatted MBR and Fat32.
2. Launched BCA.
3. BCA immediately gives me a yellow warning that I need an optical drive to install windows, but lets me continue. The warning says to connect one, not that it must be internal. If I have an external one connected I don't get the warning, but the subsequent results below are the same.
4. Downloaded the Support Software and drivers successfully to the memory stick.
5. Proceeded to the partition window in BCA
6. Select my partition sizes. hit install button
7 Message that "the installer disc could not be found"

Thinking that I might make the partition in DU I quit BCA and tried to boot from the USB stick but it does not show up as an option with the restart/option method.

I have tried the above with two different brands of USB stick and with the ISO made from my Install DVD, and with with a downloaded ISO.

My belief is that this method (BCA creating bootable installer on USB stick only applies on macs which never had an internal optical drive.

I know there are complicated ways of booting from USB using rEFIt etc, but I am not willing to go down that road.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:49 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by KnickFan View Post
how do i get windows on it without the optical drive?
I strongly recommend, that the SuperDrive (which is getting kicked out of your MBP) gets a new housing (OWC sells a nifty external enclosure, they even discount it when buying drive doubler). That way you still have the SuperDrive if you'd happen to need it.

RGDS,
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:06 AM   #25
Mike Boreham
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I strongly recommend, that the SuperDrive (which is getting kicked out of your MBP) gets a new housing (OWC sells a nifty external enclosure, they even discount it when buying drive doubler). That way you still have the SuperDrive if you'd happen to need it.

RGDS,
Thanks, my strong understanding is that putting the removed superdrive in a housing doesn't get round this problem, because it still has to connect by USB. When the superdrive is internal it is connected to the SATA bus.

I also have a firewire external optical drive which also doesn't boot windows.

EDIT This thread is one of many supporting what I said above

Last edited by Mike Boreham; Jan 21, 2013 at 05:31 AM.
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