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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:08 PM   #26
AppleMacFinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Taiwanese component vendor to knockoff case/system vendors is perhaps more accurate.
The products are not even close. Different markets, different price range, different specifications...
You cannot put a "knockoff" label on a product only because it was released after its counterpart.
That was the same as labeling AMD as Intel knockoff, XBox as PS knockoff, or Mitsubishi Motors as BMW knockoff.

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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
No. Although it likely means they are looking to pass the Thunderbolt licensing tests.
The acceptance to Thunderbolt board means a lot. Only chosen vendors get there.

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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Not so much universal but a complete system solution. There is no power supply in the TH05. No case. No second Thunderbolt Port to daisy chain. This board is a subcomponent in a solution.
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
If need to hook another TB device downstream it may. Whatever "box" cobbled together using the board would end-cap that TB daisy chain. For systems that have only one TB port that is a real issue. With two not so much. So for the mini doesn't have two.
After customer gets power supply (could get much better than Sonnet built-in poor 150W) and a case (if he needs it),
the final price is going to be around ~$250, including all the cables:
  • External 5V/12V power supply cable
  • Dupont 2PIN Cable
  • Thunderbolt Cable
It is more than two times cheaper than Sonnet's cheapest solution.
For this price difference, most of people could forget about second Thunderbolt port.

And that will not harm: because Thunderbolt-based devices are used to be expensive,
most Mac users (including me) still do not have any of them!

People who have are rich, so if they need a eGPU solution, they will go for Sonnet - because they can afford that.

Or, if they are still interested in saving money, could just unplug their "Pro Audio" card and plug in GPU card
when they want to play games. Takes two minutes at max.

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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
There is additional overhead with Sonnet because they have actually tested complete systems and worked on certification with card vendors. That takes time and money because selling a verified solution as opposed to a subcomponent.
This performance difference (+12.3%) is because Sonnet uses PCIe 2.0 x4 controller, while BPlus uses PCIe 2.0 x2.
But this performance difference is too small to justify the huge price difference: (600/250 - 1)*100% = +140% !

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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
The prices will probably drop as the 'copycats' flow into the TB market after others have developer a proven set of reliable designs and worked through all of the major issues.
TB market is overpriced. Customers will highly appreciate the price drop.

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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
"enthusiasts" is really "people on a limited budget"
Yes, our budget is limited, but our creativity is not!

We just discovered an excellent way to save money, and it would be shame for us not to use it!
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Last edited by AppleMacFinder; Dec 17, 2012 at 12:14 PM.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:04 AM   #27
francescop1
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is it possible to use the two TB ports on the retina macbooks to feed the same pcie board and get twice the bandwidth?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 04:48 PM   #28
bergui45
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TH05 is vaporware!

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Originally Posted by AppleMacFinder View Post
What is wrong with TH05? It is quite solid and cheap -
full kit costs just $180, with Thunderbolt cable included!

http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/TH05.html

Image



What a fantastic value!

Recently, I have discovered this excellent product; going to get it while it is still available,
so I could use my spare desktop GPU (AMD HD6670) to boost the graphic performance of my Macbook Pro!
hello,
I have ordered the complete stuff with the crystalbox! but they cancelled the order and credited back my paypal account with this argument:
>Dear Bernard,

>Thanks for your interest in our TH05 and purchasing.
>Since this item is engineering sample which hasnít got final approval yet, >and there are still some compatible issues existed between MacBook and >them, we couldnít sell it.

>We just cancel your order and release the amount back to you via the >PayPal system.
>The total amount is USD278, including the freight USD38, please check it.

>Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

>Sincerely yours,
>Minnie.

what is available:http://www.magma.com/thunderbolt
at an insane and crazy 978$ price!
better purchase a working PC for gaming!
;-((
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergui45 View Post
hello,
I have ordered the complete stuff with the crystalbox! but they cancelled the order and credited back my paypal account with this argument:
>Dear Bernard,

>Thanks for your interest in our TH05 and purchasing.
>Since this item is engineering sample which hasn’t got final approval yet, >and there are still some compatible issues existed between MacBook and >them, we couldn’t sell it.

>We just cancel your order and release the amount back to you via the >PayPal system.
>The total amount is USD278, including the freight USD38, please check it.

>Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

>Sincerely yours,
>Minnie.

what is available:http://www.magma.com/thunderbolt
at an insane and crazy 978$ price!
better purchase a working PC for gaming!
;-((

While still pricey, you can consider something like the Sonnet Echo Express for $549.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...&is=REG&A=cart
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 08:39 AM   #30
bergui45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
While still pricey, you can consider something like the Sonnet Echo Express for $549.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...&is=REG&A=cart
thank you for this information!
they don't sell it with the Thunderbolt wire you need to pay extra bucks for it!
Will the MSI 660 GTX eGPU be blessed inside the Sonnet Box?
regards
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:22 AM   #31
philipma1957
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Originally Posted by bergui45 View Post
thank you for this information!
they don't sell it with the Thunderbolt wire you need to pay extra bucks for it!
Will the MSI 660 GTX eGPU be blessed inside the Sonnet Box?
regards
as far as I know that box only works for video capture. I have never seen a link of it with a video out put card such as a msi 660 gtx egpu . which I belive needs more then 100watts of juice
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Old Jan 4, 2013, 10:40 AM   #32
53x12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergui45 View Post
thank you for this information!
they don't sell it with the Thunderbolt wire you need to pay extra bucks for it!
Will the MSI 660 GTX eGPU be blessed inside the Sonnet Box?
regards
That case only supports half length PCIe cards. Something like this should fit:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nc.-_-14133386

Or you could go with the Echo Express Pro which supports standard width and full length PCIe cards. It will provide 150W.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:24 AM   #33
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Smile TH05 is not a vaporware :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bergui45 View Post
hello,
I have ordered the complete stuff with the crystalbox! but they cancelled the order and credited back my paypal account with this argument:
>Dear Bernard,

>Thanks for your interest in our TH05 and purchasing.
>Since this item is engineering sample which hasn’t got final approval yet, >and there are still some compatible issues existed between MacBook and >them, we couldn’t sell it.

>We just cancel your order and release the amount back to you via the >PayPal system.
>The total amount is USD278, including the freight USD38, please check it.

>Sorry for the inconvenience caused.

>Sincerely yours,
>Minnie.

what is available:http://www.magma.com/thunderbolt
at an insane and crazy 978$ price!
better purchase a working PC for gaming!
;-((
Thank you for the heads up!

I have found a Bplus Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bplus-...05378296203030

A vaporware is a piece of hardware that was never delivered to the end customer.
As you can see from this Facebook page, a lot of people have successfully purchased
their product, and are very happy with it

However, the recent orders were cancelled! What is a reason?

The official message of Bplus Technology Co., Ltd. :

Quote:
Thank you for your inquiry.
As TH05 is not final approved and also have some interoperability issue.
So, we decided to recall the current TH05 and hopefully release approved newer one.
Sorry for inconvenience for TH05 owner and fans, and also thank you for your understanding.
Thanks!
So, they have found out a minor issue with TH05.
But, instead of closing their eyes on this problem and continue to make money,
(like a lot of other companies, including Apple, would probably do)
Bplus, as a honest fan-oriented company, has decided to stop production and sales immediately,
until the issue will be found out and solved.

From my point of view, the estimated waiting time is one month,
however I can be wrong and that is just a random guess. Please subscribe to their Facebook page,
so when they post a good news, you will be able to get TH05 until it is sold out!
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Last edited by AppleMacFinder; Jan 14, 2013 at 07:31 AM.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 09:34 AM   #34
Tanax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleMacFinder View Post
Thank you for the heads up!

I have found a Bplus Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bplus-...05378296203030

A vaporware is a piece of hardware that was never delivered to the end customer.
As you can see from this Facebook page, a lot of people have successfully purchased
their product, and are very happy with it

However, the recent orders were cancelled! What is a reason?

The official message of Bplus Technology Co., Ltd. :



So, they have found out a minor issue with TH05.
But, instead of closing their eyes on this problem and continue to make money,
(like a lot of other companies, including Apple, would probably do)
Bplus, as a honest fan-oriented company, has decided to stop production and sales immediately,
until the issue will be found out and solved.

From my point of view, the estimated waiting time is one month,
however I can be wrong and that is just a random guess. Please subscribe to their Facebook page,
so when they post a good news, you will be able to get TH05 until it is sold out!
The reason TH05 was pulled from production was because it didn't comply with Intel's specifications regarding PCI-E TB accessories. They didn't have an enclosure - which is a must.

They are working on an update but they said first half of 2013 so I doubt it's just 3 weeks away. I'm guessing between April and summer.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:02 AM   #35
fig
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And first half of 2013 on a product that needs to get approved by someone is probably July or August by the time it's all said and done.

As far as things that don't cost $500+, you've also got this option for $379.99 from OtherWorld Computing.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:14 AM   #36
Tanax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fig View Post
And first half of 2013 on a product that needs to get approved by someone is probably July or August by the time it's all said and done.

As far as things that don't cost $500+, you've also got this option for $379.99 from OtherWorld Computing.
Exactly my point, so I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
Regarding OWC, that one only takes a half-length, single-width card which won't get you a very good GPU-card.

On top of that, I can't find the maximum wattage-power it can give.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanax View Post
The reason TH05 was pulled from production was because it didn't comply with Intel's specifications regarding PCI-E TB accessories. They didn't have an enclosure - which is a must.

They are working on an update but they said first half of 2013 so I doubt it's just 3 weeks away. I'm guessing between April and summer.
Okay, but they are selling a Crystal Case, which could be qualified as enclosure with a little to none modifications.

I am still optimistic about TH05, hope they will make this product available again before March.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:39 PM   #38
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Exactly my point, so I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
Regarding OWC, that one only takes a half-length, single-width card which won't get you a very good GPU-card.

On top of that, I can't find the maximum wattage-power it can give.
Good to know, thanks. Seems like there's some room for someone to introduce a more cost effective device here.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:38 PM   #39
Tanax
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Originally Posted by AppleMacFinder View Post
Okay, but they are selling a Crystal Case, which could be qualified as enclosure with a little to none modifications.

I am still optimistic about TH05, hope they will make this product available again before March.
Best bet would be to check and like their Facebook page to stay on top of their updates!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fig View Post
Good to know, thanks. Seems like there's some room for someone to introduce a more cost effective device here.
Definitely, no doubt about it. Problem is that licensing cost for TB is still quite high and there isn't much competition yet(although it is beginning to rise) - this leads to high cost for all products that do exist.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 07:08 PM   #40
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When talking with Sonnet I came to understand that probably the biggest issue facing eGPU support with OS X is that thunderbolt for OS X requires hotswapability.

There have been many uses of eGPUs using the Magma box and the Sonnet box in windows environments but not OS X.

When using hardware across the TB buss on OS X, I've been told that the drivers for said hardware have to be "thunderbolt aware".

I have one of sonnet's echo expresscard readers for use with SxS memory cards. While the SxS cards are just UDF format flash memory they would not mount until sony came out with TB aware drivers (5 months after the product was available).

It certainly isn't implausible for it to work assuming GPU manufacturers decided to create some unofficial drivers, (since none of them would make hotswapable drivers if they were in their right minds) but that seems unlikely given the risks to the hardware.

Perhaps some open source drivers might surface eventually.

Although I agree that the biggest problem with the TB solutions is the cost of the products. Licensing being one of the biggest costs as I understand it.
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Old Feb 13, 2013, 08:55 PM   #41
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When talking with Sonnet I came to understand that probably the biggest issue facing eGPU support with OS X is that thunderbolt for OS X requires hotswapability.
In addition to the "one socket to rule them all" this is another hugely oversold issue with Thunderbolt; "no new software required". PCI-e drivers that have a built in assumption that the card is always plugged in have issues to cover.


Quote:
There have been many uses of eGPUs using the Magma box and the Sonnet box in windows environments but not OS X.
Outside the context of one that was hooked into the vGPU set-up that LucidLogix provides (http://www.lucidlogix.com/technology...-graphics.html )?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/luc...nal,17520.html

It isn't "windows" that is really enabling this. The issue is that the iGPU is always on and hooked up with as a resource for the virtual GPU. If the external one appears and disappears that the workload just shifts over.

The problem from an OS X perspective is that this Virtual GPU technology hooks into DirectX ( a Windows only technology).

Windows may have some support for hotplugging PCI-e cards that some video vendors implemented but I suspect these vGPU demos are bigger driver of this characterization that it is more of a "OS X problem".




[quote]
When using hardware across the TB buss on OS X, I've been told that the drivers for said hardware have to be "thunderbolt aware". [/quote

This isn't an OS X issue. All thunderbolt devices with PCI-e controllers on the other side will need driver updates that allows the devices to wink-in and wink-out outside the scope of an initial boot configuration.

As usual the Windows market being much larger there will be more vendors adapting drivers because the overall market opportunity is higher. 2% of 90% of the personal computer market is an order of magnitude bigger than 20% of 7% of the personal market. That's why OS X drivers show up slowly in most cases.
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 07:26 PM   #42
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Any solution that has been proven to work and runs well with the Mac Mini?
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Old Mar 24, 2013, 09:06 PM   #43
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Any solution that has been proven to work and runs well with the Mac Mini?
no I have not found one.

remember a lot of people feel the haswell integrated gpu will be a big boost.

I gave up built a diy pc run windows 7. I have a mini that runs windows 7 or mountain lion.
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