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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:34 AM   #51
apple-win
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Apple should have two OS for Mac, OS X and Windows. If Apple wants to grow PC market share, pre-install Windows on Mac.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:36 AM   #52
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I'd like to point our that these statistics include tablets as PC's. Sorry but a tablet is it's own category now, give apple the market share advantage where it deserves it.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:38 AM   #53
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it is nuts.

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Really nuts.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:40 AM   #54
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if you're in a university the chances are most of the computers around you will be macs.

image

(funny side-note: We had a linux obsessed lecturer who spent 2 hours shouting at everyone in the room for being on a mac or windows machine, and he stood there with his laptop giving a presentation. Literally as he said "those crappy closed source operating systems are so unreliable" his laptop locked up. Needless to say the lecture ended at that point. :d)
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:40 AM   #55
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Really nuts.
However, to my eyes, at least here in Italy, there are muuuuuch moooore Macs around than 2-3 years ago.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:41 AM   #56
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Apple should have two OS for Mac, OS X and Windows. If Apple wants to grow PC market share, pre-install Windows on Mac.
Do MSFT a favour and up the price of a Mac unit?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:43 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Some schools now include a computer as part of tuition. I am not trying to throw doubt into the mix - but it is possible that picture is taken at one of those schools. I'm genuinely curious about that picture now...
That is true and something to take into account. I am pretty sure Full Sail University gives their students a MacBook Pro plus some awesome software with some programs. I think it is a separate package added into the Tuition.
EDIT: found information on that from Full Sails website: "*The cost of Project LaunchBox – an Apple computer and software package – is not included in these tuition prices. This is an institutional fee that may vary from program to program. Computers for Game Development students may vary in make and model. Contact Full Sail’s Admissions Department for the most current pricing."

Though I just got out of a Physics class of around 100 students and I saw at least 15 MacBook Pros in that class. That's a class where laptops aren't even used or harder to take notes on (seems most people still use pen and paper when it comes to math notes). My friend who is a journalism major says that she sees more MacBook Pros than anything else in that department. That being a department where having a laptop in class would greatly benefit you.

When walking around our separate engineering campus I see quite a mix of laptops but I'd say I honestly see more MacBook Pros than anything else. I am willing to bet Apple holds a pretty big percentage in the education market than other PC Manufactures. Honestly I'd say it is because Apple and other software now make it so easy to run your version of Windows on your Mac. So you always get the best of both worlds.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:43 AM   #58
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Banish the outsiders
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:45 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
If you're in a university the chances are most of the computers around you will be macs.

Image

(Funny side-note: We had a linux obsessed lecturer who spent 2 hours shouting at everyone in the room for being on a Mac or Windows machine, and he stood there with his laptop giving a presentation. Literally as he said "Those crappy closed source operating systems are so unreliable" his laptop locked up. Needless to say the lecture ended at that point. )
Holy mother of Jesus! Was that unplanned? If that's the case, here in Belgium there are not that many students with Apple laptops.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:45 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by apple-win View Post
Apple should have two OS for Mac, OS X and Windows. If Apple wants to grow PC market share, pre-install Windows on Mac.
I don't think they want to - Apple see the future in tablets.

Apple sell primarily sell hardware - the O/S and other software is a vehicle to do so. Offering OSX for windows PC wouldn't do them much good.

Apple don't have to support a lot of hardware at the moment - a restricted set - they'd be expected support a whole lot more if they made OSX universally available to all AMD/Intel based PCs. Not doing so would result in bad P.R.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:48 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by The Bulge View Post
Do MSFT a favour and up the price of a Mac unit?
Same price. No Bootcamp, either OS X or Windows. If Windows Mac is available, I would ask IS department to order one for me
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:00 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bulge View Post
it is nuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinser View Post
Really nuts.
I know I predicted that people would think the idea is nuts, largely because forum readers often don't truly think about others' ideas but just react on gut instinct. It would be nice though if you could explain why you think its nuts given the way Apple is set up today.

I can agree that the idea is bold and doesn't have a 100% chance of success, but I don't think its "nuts".
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:00 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Stella View Post
I don't think they want to - Apple see the future in tablets.

Apple sell primarily sell hardware - the O/S and other software is a vehicle to do so. Offering OSX for windows PC wouldn't do them much good.

Apple don't have to support a lot of hardware at the moment - a restricted set - they'd be expected support a whole lot more if they made OSX universally available to all AMD/Intel based PCs. Not doing so would result in bad P.R.
I'm not saying OS X supports other PCs. I'm talking about pre-install Windows on Mac, no Bootcamp, no OS X.

If Apple has Windows version of iMac and Macbook Pro, Apple will gain market share in the business sector. Sell more hardware, why not.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by pizzafordinna View Post
I'd like to point our that these statistics include tablets as PC's. Sorry but a tablet is it's own category now, give apple the market share advantage where it deserves it.
No, these statistics do not include tablets, at least not the Gartner stats at the top. The source article says so.

"Note: Data includes desk-based PCs and mobile PCs, including mini-notebooks but not media tablets such as the iPad. Data is based on the shipments selling into channels.
Source: Gartner (January 2013)"
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:08 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by longofest View Post
Some are gonna think this is nuts, but I actually think that Apple should consider licensing Mac OS again. The times have changed, and the Macintosh is no longer Apple's primary revenue/profit maker - the iOS ecosystem is.

If you look at the Mac as a companion to an iOS ecosystem, then there is little harm done in experimenting with the license of MacOS again. I think Apple's hardware sales will take only a minor hit, as many buy Macs for their industrial design now adays, and Apple could make some nice side cash in licensing fees, espeically if the license is more than the $25 that it charges via Mac App store.

Fleshed out more here.
No.

I'm a developer. I have developed OS X, iOS, Java (so that it'll run on OS X & Windows), and Android apps. I love developing for OS X and iOS because I know what kinds of hardware to expect it to be run on. I know that most computers running OS X have multitouch surfaces, for example (either the Magic Mouse, the Magic Trackpad, or the Trackpad built into MacBooks.) I know which screen sizes and resolutions to have. I know whether a camera will be present. On and on. I hate making Java or Android apps because there are thousands, potentially millions, of different hardware configurations.

Further, I know that far more iOS users will pay for apps than will Android users. I expect that I'd find a similar situation with OS X users as opposed to Windows/*x users. Thus, though I can only sell my apps to a small portion of users relative to if I could sell them for every platform, I can keep the time in development and maintain down (less spaghetti code to handle every possible hardware set up,) and ensure a better, consistent experience for the users I do support.

So, at the least, cross the first bullet point off of the list you give in your article.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:19 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
If you're in a university the chances are most of the computers around you will be macs.

Image

(Funny side-note: We had a linux obsessed lecturer who spent 2 hours shouting at everyone in the room for being on a Mac or Windows machine, and he stood there with his laptop giving a presentation. Literally as he said "Those crappy closed source operating systems are so unreliable" his laptop locked up. Needless to say the lecture ended at that point. )
Sigh... Who is he to judge what others prefer?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:21 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Mike Valmike View Post
If Apple had shipped the 2012 iMac in a timely fashion, they probably could have taken 2nd. I lay that failure, then and ongoing now, squarely at the feet of Tim Cook. If there were going to be such yield problems and production constraints, and DigiTimes knew about them in June, then the correct move would have been to do a spec bump with Ivy in July/August, and save the redesign for 2013.
Lol, no they wouldn't have. Those numbers are in "(Thousands of Units)" and there is no way they sell that many imacs.

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Third place is pretty good considering they don't sell PC's! :P
Oh, child. Do you know what PC stands for? Macs are 'personal computers'.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:23 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post

Further, I know that far more iOS users will pay for apps than will Android users. I expect that I'd find a similar situation with OS X users as opposed to Windows/*x users.
Oh I would just LOVE to know how you came up with that correlation.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:25 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
No.

I'm a developer. I have developed OS X, iOS, Java (so that it'll run on OS X & Windows), and Android apps. I love developing for OS X and iOS because I know what kinds of hardware to expect it to be run on. I know that most computers running OS X have multitouch surfaces, for example (either the Magic Mouse, the Magic Trackpad, or the Trackpad built into MacBooks.) I know which screen sizes and resolutions to have. I know whether a camera will be present. On and on. I hate making Java or Android apps because there are thousands, potentially millions, of different hardware configurations.

Further, I know that far more iOS users will pay for apps than will Android users. I expect that I'd find a similar situation with OS X users as opposed to Windows/*x users. Thus, though I can only sell my apps to a small portion of users relative to if I could sell them for every platform, I can keep the time in development and maintain down (less spaghetti code to handle every possible hardware set up,) and ensure a better, consistent experience for the users I do support.

So, at the least, cross the first bullet point off of the list you give in your article.
Sorry, but that argument only really works in the mobile/iOS arena. It has never worked on the Mac. Apple has always supported external monitors which support all kinds of different display resolutions, and Apple also supports all sorts of 3rd party input devices on Mac.

I'm a software engineer and develop software as a job, and it is a dangerous and not good coding practice to try to rely on only a certain set of display resolutions in a desktop OS environment (meaning, non-mobile).
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:44 PM   #70
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Further, I know that far more iOS users will pay for apps than will Android users. I expect that I'd find a similar situation with OS X users as opposed to Windows/*x users.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:48 PM   #71
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Probably not as well as you'd think. As far as the PC market is concerned, Apple has always had a much stronger following in the US than it is elsewhere. They have their following, but it's pretty small compared to what it is here in the states.
So tell me how well I'm thinking Apple is doing world wide in computer sales.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:53 PM   #72
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Sorry, but that argument only really works in the mobile/iOS arena. It has never worked on the Mac. Apple has always supported external monitors which support all kinds of different display resolutions, and Apple also supports all sorts of 3rd party input devices on Mac.

I'm a software engineer and develop software as a job, and it is a dangerous and not good coding practice to try to rely on only a certain set of display resolutions in a desktop OS environment (meaning, non-mobile).
Pffff, you're no software engineer! Every good software engineer designs UIs for 800x600 and leaves it at that.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:55 PM   #73
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So tell me how well I'm thinking Apple is doing world wide in computer sales.
A billion trillion zillion? Probably not as well as you'd like.

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Pffff, you're no software engineer! Every good software engineer designs UIs for 800x600 and leaves it at that.
Really? I thought everyone designed for 1024x768 these days.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:57 PM   #74
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Wondering what this looks like if you consider a "tablet" a PC.
I think it was reported here not too long ago that iPads and other table devices sold more units than desktop computers in a recent quarter.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 01:00 PM   #75
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I'd like to point our that these statistics include tablets as PC's. Sorry but a tablet is it's own category now, give apple the market share advantage where it deserves it.
What statistics are those ? You're saying Apple moved only 2 million iPads/Macs combined in the holiday quarter of 2012 in the US ?

These statistics don't have the tablets in them.
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