General: @Planetbeing has a 6.0.2 (6.1) JB

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by jav6454

I don't pity Sony because they also brought that on themselves by not encoding anything and just having it plain text.

Also, Sony sent Geohot into hole he hasn't come back from. We desperately need to gain 1st Gen iPhone level Pwnage; where the entire thing was ours for manipulation.

I agree and they could have brought him on board like Facebook tried rather than trying to sue him to death.

I'd love if he returned to the JB scene along with comex. At least pod2g is back.

[Siggen]

Originally Posted by cymolia

i dont see a jailbreak being released before march, sorry guys thats the cold hard fact

Ahahaha, I laughed out loud when I read this.
I am sorry you do not get to make such a post without any ridicule, I mean people can take you seriously and that would be a shame.

Now lets examine your sentence. "i dont see a jailbreak being released before march" is your first premise. So you are implying that someone says they believe it will be released before March. That would be in January or February. But no one knows right? So what is the status now? We are missing two key parts.

1. iOS 6.1 update
2. 1 more exploit to keep as a probe for future firmwares


Lets take them in that order. When is 6.1 coming? Rumors says they are testing GM internally now. Looking at previous release of same magnitude, this is viable compared to number of beta drafts and time it has taken. Meaning it could be out tomorrow or in a month. I cant remember if they released GM versions of X.X magnitude to developers first earlier.

The second thing they need. An exploit, capable of giving the hackers probing possibilites. Why do they need this? To make future jailbreaks faster. Why does it make future jailbreaks faster? Cause they are able to look and do more than if they had no exploit. Well now they have a fully functioning jailbreak internally, not cleaned and packed ready, but functioning. And thus they have the high ground to get another exploit. They might even have found one already for what we know, after all we are on need to know basis here, any information which is public Apple has, and any information Apple has is less ideal for us.


Now lets look at the second premisse of your statement "sorry guys thats the cold hard fact"

*BRRR* WRONG. It might be released tomorrow for all we know (less likely), and it might never be released if Apple hired Deadpool to end the vital hackers existence.

Point is that you are absolutely wrong in your absolute statement.

[confucious]

Originally Posted by thelatinist

Well, besides producing several public jailbreaks for the iPhone, he managed to obtain and publish the root keys for the "virtually unhackable" Sony PS3 -- a feat he accomplished within five weeks of his initial attempts. He was subsequently able to obtain full read/write/execute access and create custom firmware and homebrew. Needless to say, Sony was not happy.

It is unfortunate that his techniques were probably used in the huge attack on the Playstation Network that compromised 77 million users' accounts and resulted in shutdowns of the service.

He did far more than that.

I speak to many people and understand them to a more or less degree.

Talking to Geohot just left me with a feeling that he was working on a different level. I learned a lot. Sometimes we all need someone to bounce ideas off. It was an interesting insight to his mind when he used me.

[jav6454]

Originally Posted by Dwalls90

I agree and they could have brought him on board like Facebook tried rather than trying to sue him to death.

I'd love if he returned to the JB scene along with comex. At least pod2g is back.

Yes, they two (comex and pod2g) maybe back, but they haven't really done anything right now. And if they have, they are keeping it entirely under wraps hoping for 6.1 not to break it. Although, it doesn't guarantee that they'll be a release JB for 6.1

[confucious]

Originally Posted by jav6454

Yes, they two (comex and pod2g) maybe back, but they haven't really done anything right now. And if they have, they are keeping it entirely under wraps hoping for 6.1 not to break it. Although, it doesn't guarantee that they'll be a release JB for 6.1

Comex is another one that is really quite clever.

[jav6454]

Originally Posted by confucious

Comex is another one that is really quite clever.

True, but he hasnt been much active in the JB front as off late

[confucious]

Originally Posted by jav6454

True, but he hasnt been much active in the JB front as off late

Very true - but he always did far more behind the scenes than in public.

Unfortunatly I think we have lost him though.

[TSX]

Originally Posted by confucious

Unfortunatly I think we have lost him though.

I think most people in the JB scene just move on. It might start as a hobby and work out well for them, but then as time goes by they find something else to do. Just like a hobby that you had 2 years ago, might not be what your doing today.

[td1439]

Here's my understanding of the situation right now:

1. Planetbeing has a functional, untethered jailbreak working on his iP5; that was the point of his Reddit post. He confirmed that he's got MobileSubstrate running, so it's certainly more than a failbreak.

2. One of the exploits involved is an important one that they want to save for work on future versions of iOS; let's call that exploit Big Betty. Big Betty can't be part of a 6.0.x jailbreak because then Apple might go and fix it. So they need to find another exploit to replace Big Betty. This is likely what prompted Saurik to post the following in the Reddit thread: "I would describe it as 'people are not yet at the point where it only requires elbow grease: it still requires research and a hint of luck, so it isn't really possible to estimate whether it will be a lot more work or a small amount more work'."

3. There's no point in releasing a jb prior to the release of 6.1. It makes more sense to wait and see what the final version of 6.1 fixes in terms of exploits, then go from there. If 6.1 happens to fix Big Betty (which planetbeing admitted is a risk they take), then they will likely tell people not to upgrade and just release a 6.0.x jb. If not, they can then use Big Betty to search for new bugs which would allow people to upgrade and still have a jailbreak.

So the big variable, from what I can see, is how many new exploits are needed post-6.1 and how long it takes to find them. All of the above is just my own conjecture.

[cheezeit]

Hopefully something happens... Watch the adoption of iPhones rise cause of a jb

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by td1439

Here's my understanding of the situation right now:

1. Planetbeing has a functional, untethered jailbreak working on his iP5; that was the point of his Reddit post. He confirmed that he's got MobileSubstrate running, so it's certainly more than a failbreak.

2. One of the exploits involved is an important one that they want to save for work on future versions of iOS; let's call that exploit Big Betty. Big Betty can't be part of a 6.0.x jailbreak because then Apple might go and fix it. So they need to find another exploit to replace Big Betty. This is likely what prompted Saurik to post the following in the Reddit thread: "I would describe it as 'people are not yet at the point where it only requires elbow grease: it still requires research and a hint of luck, so it isn't really possible to estimate whether it will be a lot more work or a small amount more work'."

3. There's no point in releasing a jb prior to the release of 6.1. It makes more sense to wait and see what the final version of 6.1 fixes in terms of exploits, then go from there. If 6.1 happens to fix Big Betty (which planetbeing admitted is a risk they take), then they will likely tell people not to upgrade and just release a 6.0.x jb. If not, they can then use Big Betty to search for new bugs which would allow people to upgrade and still have a jailbreak.

So the big variable, from what I can see, is how many new exploits are needed post-6.1 and how long it takes to find them. All of the above is just my own conjecture.

I think that's exactly what's going on, based on interpreting tweets and blog posts. But that said, even with Big Betty, there are still a few bugs and they still need at least one more exploit.

The waiting game is the worst - hopefully we see iOS 6.1 any day now instead of waiting until Spring like last year for 5.1. I don't mind being told "nope, no JB yet!", but being in the unknown for another few months would suck.

[TriJetHero]

Originally Posted by Dwalls90

I think that's exactly what's going on, based on interpreting tweets and blog posts. But that said, even with Big Betty, there are still a few bugs and they still need at least one more exploit.

The waiting game is the worst - hopefully we see iOS 6.1 any day now instead of waiting until Spring like last year for 5.1. I don't mind being told "nope, no JB yet!", but being in the unknown for another few months would suck.

The JB is fully functional including mobilesubstrate, but planetbeing expects 6.1 to break some of it, so no bugs.

They don't "need" an additional exploit, they do "want" an additional exploit. Reveailing the 4+ they have now would leave them without exploits and no easy entry point for the next jailbreak.

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by TriJetHero

The JB is fully functional including mobilesubstrate, but planetbeing expects 6.1 to break some of it, so no bugs.

They don't "need" an additional exploit, they do "want" an additional exploit. Reveailing the 4+ they have now would leave them without exploits and no easy entry point for the next jailbreak.

I'm not sure if I'm feeling selfish so that I hope 6.1 breaks the big exploit and forces them to release it for 6.0.2

But having no downgrade path is scary ...

[TriJetHero]

Originally Posted by Dwalls90

I'm not sure if I'm feeling selfish so that I hope 6.1 breaks the big exploit and forces them to release it for 6.0.2

But having no downgrade path is scary ...

We didn't have that on 5.X for a while, maybe the devs come up with a nice rabbit again to have that possibility.

[thelatinist]

Dwalls, I think your analysis is about right. I imagine if Apple fixes what you've dubbed "Big Betty" in 6.1 they will release a 6.0.1/6.0.2 jailbreak. Otherwise they will keep holding on to "Big Betty" and even after 6.1 drops we'll be in exactly the same situation we are right now: waiting for someone to discover a burnable alternative to "Big Betty."

[td1439]

Originally Posted by thelatinist

Otherwise they will keep holding on to "Big Betty" and even after 6.1 drops we'll be in exactly the same situation we are right now: waiting for someone to discover a burnable alternative to "Big Betty."

That's true, but planetbeing sounded fairly confident that they would be able to find 1-2 more bugs for use in the public jailbreak.

[thelatinist]

Originally Posted by td1439

That's true, but planetbeing sounded fairly confident that they would be able to find 1-2 more bugs for use in the public jailbreak.

The point is, that has nothing to do with the release of 6.1. There is no reason to think anything will be any different after 6.1 drops than before, unless Apple patches "Big Betty."

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by thelatinist

The point is, that has nothing to do with the release of 6.1. There is no reason to think anything will be any different after 6.1 drops than before, unless Apple patches "Big Betty."

Yep. And I doubt they'll miraculously find an exploit right when 6.1 drops, unless they already have and aren't telling us. The wait continues!

[wgr73]

As much as it sucks for AAPL to admit this: The jailbreak community plays a big part in Apples iPhone domination (which is wearing off quickly).

I honestly think Apple needs to leave holes that these devs can find. They definitely won't go open source (too arrogant). Make is safe enough so that malicious attacks can't happen (not sure this is possible, a hole is a hole), but leave something..

I partly-converted to Android last week, meaning my primary phone is an Android device. Although I still have my Macbook Pro, iPad 3, iPad Mini, 2 iPod Touches and an iPhone 5, oh and iPhone 3GS -> Android is killing the game right now!

I won't go into how much more I like it and what not, but I will say that without a jailbreak, 'iOS' is just not as fun. There need to be more customization, PERIOD.

@planetbeing, good work. You guys are awesome and know what you're doing. I'm not as motivated for a jb as I was - having spent a considerable time on Android now, but there are people that haven't went to a different OS that are. So it's good to see the progress so far. Keep up the good work!

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by wgr73

As much as it sucks for AAPL to admit this: The jailbreak community plays a big part in Apples iPhone domination (which is wearing off quickly).

I honestly think Apple needs to leave holes that these devs can find. They definitely won't go open source (too arrogant). Make is safe enough so that malicious attacks can't happen (not sure this is possible, a hole is a hole), but leave something..

I partly-converted to Android last week, meaning my primary phone is an Android device. Although I still have my Macbook Pro, iPad 3, iPad Mini, 2 iPod Touches and an iPhone 5, oh and iPhone 3GS -> Android is killing the game right now!

I won't go into how much more I like it and what not, but I will say that without a jailbreak, 'iOS' is just not as fun. There need to be more customization, PERIOD.

@planetbeing, good work. You guys are awesome and know what you're doing. I'm not as motivated for a jb as I was - having spent a considerable time on Android now, but there are people that haven't went to a different OS that are. So it's good to see the progress so far. Keep up the good work!

Sorry, but no. We all here love our jailbreak, but we are the extreme minority. While Apple may lose a few sales due to lack of a jailbreak, they gain many more in the corporate sector for having the safest locked up mobile OS. They will never intentionally leave holes for JB exploits.

That said, the JB community provided lots of great inspiration for tweaks, so Apple should give credit where it's due and realize opening iOS to a degree would only help it grow.

I do agree with moving to Android. I don't like Android but am excited to play with a more open and configurable OS if there is no jailbreak or if iOS 7 is as stale as iOS 6.

[wgr73]

Originally Posted by Dwalls90

Sorry, but no. We all here love our jailbreak, but we are the extreme minority. While Apple may lose a few sales due to lack of a jailbreak, they gain many more in the corporate sector for having the safest locked up mobile OS. They will never intentionally leave holes for JB exploits.

That said, the JB community provided lots of great inspiration for tweaks, so Apple should give credit where it's due and realize opening iOS to a degree would only help it grow.

I do agree with moving to Android. I don't like Android but am excited to play with a more open and configurable OS if there is no jailbreak or if iOS 7 is as stale as iOS 6.

I can agree with you on that. A more open OS needs to be in order. As far as corporate accounts and gaining sales that way, true.

They really do need to give credit where it is due. That would definitely help.

I hope for a new OS, and new hardware (bigger screen) with the launch of the iPhone 6.

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by wgr73

I can agree with you on that. A more open OS needs to be in order. As far as corporate accounts and gaining sales that way, true.

They really do need to give credit where it is due. That would definitely help.

I hope for a new OS, and new hardware (bigger screen) with the launch of the iPhone 6.

I didn't mean to be harsh. I would rather have more openness then have my company use iPhones! Lol.

I think we're all hoping for a radically changed iOS, but I don't think we'll see a new screen size until at least Fall 2014.

Hopefully along the way Apple can modify iOS to play friendly with multiple resolutions and screen sizes - that would really help developers.

[cheezeit]

but it wouldn't help apple make money. i assume they take a cut of apps so having to buy the iphone version and ipad version they get money both times...

[Dwalls90]

Originally Posted by cheezeit

but it wouldn't help apple make money. i assume they take a cut of apps so having to buy the iphone version and ipad version they get money both times...

Financials show that their commission from iTunes related commerce (apps, music, movies, ect.) basically just cover the overhead to run iTunes.

They don't make money on that content, it's there to drive the sales of their hardware, much like their operating systems.

[td1439]

Originally Posted by thelatinist

The point is, that has nothing to do with the release of 6.1. There is no reason to think anything will be any different after 6.1 drops than before, unless Apple patches "Big Betty."

Let me just see if I have my thinking straight on this, because the way I'm visualizng it, I'm not following you on this.

Okay, so the current 6.0.2 untethered makes use of one important exploit (Big Betty) and 3+ others. To release a 6.0.x, they need one more exploit to replace Big Betty. Maybe they have one, maybe they don't; they're not required to go public with that.

In order to have a 6.1 untethered, they will need that additional exploit PLUS new exploits to make up for whatever is lost by the 6.1 fixes.

In both cases, Big Betty isn't used as part of the jb so the devs can continue to use it to explore new versions of iOS.

So then what's stopping them from releasing a 6.0.x jb once 6.1 launches? Worry that they will lose the exploits? In that case, why ever release a jb? (Maybe there's something about past jailbreaks I'm not aware of that makes the current situation different). PB's posts implied that once 6.1 launches, there are some exploits they are willing to burn (or at least he would be), but maybe I totally misread that.

Thanks in advance, I'm looking to learn more about the concepts involved (as opposed to arguing that a jb is in the near future).