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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:44 PM   #1
DesertEagle
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Second Thoughts About Retina

Today I had a real wake-up call about the tradeoffs between display quality and portability.

I went to an Apple store to compare an iPad 4 with an iPad Mini side-by-side. Only then I could tell the difference in pixel density at normal viewing distance. It's undeniable that on the iPad 4, graphics were more clear and vivid than on the iPad Mini (so there's no need for me to see an optometrist), but I did have to compare them next to each other to see it.

First, I held the iPad Mini, seeing how crisp the text was compared to on my iPad 2. Then I checked the iPad 4, and I felt how hot and heavy it was in comparison with the Mini. Then I also understood why the iPad 2 is still in sale, by the way. Looking close at the Mini again, I could see how the letters (at the smallest font sizes) were a little grainy; but holding it was so much more comfortable.

It seems unrealistic to me that any iPad (in the foreseeable future) will have retina-display and keep battery life constant, while not becoming significantly hotter and heavier during use. This gives me second thoughts about the necessity of retina display in the iPad Mini. Until Apple can provide it with retina display and keep the power consumption at today's level, I will probably prefer non-retina anyway.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:49 PM   #2
maxosx
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Surrounded by the magic infused into retina by Steve Jobs, nothing less than retina will be acceptable to the majority of iOS enthusiasts. This also applies to mainstream non-tech buyers that have been convinced that retina is a must have feature.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:53 PM   #3
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I don't think Apple will do it without having good battery life, but in regards the weight. While the iPad 4 is a lot heavier than the Mini, it is only 50 grams (.1 pounds) heavier than the iPad 2. Considering Apple has always been able to shave some weight off the iPad during each update, its concievable that the Retina mini will be 25 grams heavier (.05 pounds) than the regular Mini.

iPad Mini - 16 w/hr
iPad 2 - 25 w/hr
iPad 4 - 43 w/hr

That's minimal weight gain.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 01:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertEagle View Post
It seems unrealistic to me that any iPad (in the foreseeable future) will have retina-display and keep battery life constant, while not becoming significantly hotter and heavier during use.
It's certainly realistic if you don't just assume that tech is stagnant. Use what works for you.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 01:36 PM   #5
DesertEagle
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Originally Posted by takeshi74 View Post
It's certainly realistic if you don't just assume that tech is stagnant.
I know it's realistic. So when I write "in the foreseeable future" in this context, I mean that it will take no less than 2-3 years from now.

Last edited by DesertEagle; Jan 14, 2013 at 02:29 PM.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DesertEagle View Post
I know it's realistic. So when I write "in the foreseeable future" in this context, I mean that it will take no less than 2-3 years from now.
It'll be ready for the Mini 3 in October. March will just be a RAM and processor boost for the Mini 2.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:49 PM   #7
luqtotheman
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I will take the .11 grams for a beautiful retina display!, of course about a gram for the mini!

it's amazing playing games and watching movies!
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:15 PM   #8
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It'll be ready for the Mini 3 in October. March will just be a RAM and processor boost for the Mini 2.
March? They aren't keeping up with demand (still) and March is only 1-1/2 months away, can I ask why you think there is some update coming in March? What benefit would Apple realise with an upgrade, given they 1) publicly announced their profit margins are already lower than normal for them and any upgrade would be an actual cost increase to them, and 2) can't meet demand with the product as it is, meaning they're not having any problems selling it with the current feature set and specs it has today.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:02 PM   #9
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March? They aren't keeping up with demand (still) and March is only 1-1/2 months away, can I ask why you think there is some update coming in March? What benefit would Apple realise with an upgrade, given they 1) publicly announced their profit margins are already lower than normal for them and any upgrade would be an actual cost increase to them, and 2) can't meet demand with the product as it is, meaning they're not having any problems selling it with the current feature set and specs it has today.
Because it's technology and it's constantly being updated. I don't think the demand isn't being met they're available all over the place and they would be able to reach a segment of the market that has yet to commit given the older specs of the first mini.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 10:44 PM   #10
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Its clear that apple dont know how well the mini will sell and retina display is very expensive unless you order big big quantity.

Whether we will see Retina mini or not will depend on the sales volume of the 1st gen mini.

This is not the case with fullsized because they already have 2 generation of device testing the market and knew for sho! that big demand will be there.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:40 PM   #11
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As I understand it, you can only see the difference in retina when you hold them side by side. Well that certainly makes sense doesn't it!
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luqtotheman View Post
I will take the .11 grams for a beautiful retina display!, of course about a gram for the mini!

it's amazing playing games and watching movies!
Ok, so what about the added heat dissipation?

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Originally Posted by BenTrovato View Post
As I understand it, you can only see the difference in retina when you hold them side by side. Well that certainly makes sense doesn't it!
For all practical purposes, that's the way it is for me. It may or may not make sense. Ideally it should be possible to determine if the iPad Mini has retina display or not, even without having a proper retina display nearby to compare with.

Let me add that even without comparing side-by-side, I have no problem to tell the pixel density of the iPad 2 from a retina-iPad. The way I see it however, it's different with iPad mini vs retina-iPad.

Last edited by DesertEagle; Jan 15, 2013 at 12:38 AM.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:59 AM   #13
Powrie
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In a couple months it wont matter.

The Mini will have better diplay, and the iPad will be lighter and it will run cooler.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:04 AM   #14
smileyface
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You won't miss retina if you get used to the ipad mini's resolution but side by side there is a difference.The ppi of ipad 4 is 264 and the mini is 163.

HD photos are sharper and small text clearer if your face is the same distance away on both.

Apple cannot release an ipad that has poor battery life so I am not sure how they can do a retina version without increasing battery size and thus the weight.The main reason it's selling so well is the fantastic form factor.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:53 AM   #15
WilliamLondon
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Originally Posted by TJ5921 View Post
I don't think the demand isn't being met they're available all over the place and they would be able to reach a segment of the market that has yet to commit given the older specs of the first mini.
Here in the UK there is still a 2 week delay when ordering them - that's a sure sign they can't keep up with demand.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:16 AM   #16
Skika
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No retina, no buy.

I couldn't go back to a non-retina screen on my iOS devices. To much of a step back. I like the form factor of the mini though.

I am waiting for iPad 5, hoping it incorporates the thin and light design of the mini.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by DesertEagle View Post
Let me add that even without comparing side-by-side, I have no problem to tell the pixel density of the iPad 2 from a retina-iPad. The way I see it however, it's different with iPad mini vs retina-iPad.
obviously, the mini does have a higher PPI than the iPad 2 (same number of pixels crammed into a smaller surface area). But for me, the higher PPI is washed out by the mini's smaller size. I find things easier to see on the 2 than the mini, because they are physically bigger. As for difference between the iPad 3 and the mini, I really do feel it. I spend a day using my mini outside the house, come back and pick up the iPad 3, and it's like, "My god, everything is so clear!" But I do like taking the mini with me when I go out because it's lighter and more compact. It's not like the mini is unusable, and I still use the 2 from time to time. But I do know which screen I'm looking at, the difference is palpable.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by smileyface View Post
I am not sure how they can do a retina version without increasing battery size and thus the weight.
Who would actually Care about a gram or 2 extra -
no one is ever going to notice or give weight any factor into a purchase.

With my iPad1 in it's heavily guarded case -
would one notice the iPad4 difference slipped into the case?
can one tell the difference of weight of 8 AA's vs 7 AA's in their hand.

This is just too freakin weird to even consider -
Does the OS & View quality even Matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Spring View Post
But for me, the higher PPI is washed out by the mini's smaller size.
I find things easier to see on the 2 than the mini, because they are physically bigger.

I spend a day using my mini outside the house, come back and pick up the iPad 3,
and it's like, "My god, everything is so clear!"

But I do like taking the mini with me when I go out because it's lighter and more compact.
I didn't expect to see this type of comparison -
when the real reason to take a mini out about in the first place -
Is to be easier to read than the damn phone.

This is just getting more weird all the time.
Comparing a Mini to full size Pad? - Do people really think this is why Apple is making the Mini.
The Full Size iPad is no more mobile than MBA - and maybe the same weight if it mattered.

What one reason is there to make the Mini other than a true mobile device platform
with a screen twice the size of phone that can go anywhere stealth?
W/O a backpack - or Purse as big.

Back in bed - sure - use the iPad4 w/Jambox.
Why fire up the MBP, then have it crash to the floor - when falling asleep, plus the heat.
Like that never happened. I've been on the edge lucky.
Many Times - the iPad fills the gap for movie when in a hotel / cabin.
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Last edited by Philscbx; Jan 15, 2013 at 05:58 AM.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:44 AM   #19
Night Spring
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Originally Posted by Philscbx View Post
With my iPad1 in it's heavily guarded case -
would one notice the iPad4 difference slipped into the case?
can one tell the difference of weight of 8 AA's vs 7 AA's in their hand.
If you don't notice the weight difference between the iPad 1 and 2/3/4, then there is something wrong with your sense of touch. Whether or not the difference *matters* to you is a separate issue, but surely the weight difference is noticeable.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:03 AM   #20
Batavian
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Ok, so what about the added heat dissipation?
This was overblown by naysayers when the iPad 3 came out. Burning hands, use as a cup warmer, etc. it's a non issue.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:05 AM   #21
Philscbx
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Originally Posted by Night Spring View Post
If you don't notice the weight difference between the iPad 1 and 2/3/4, then there is something wrong with your sense of touch.

Whether or not the difference *matters* to you is a separate issue, but surely the weight difference is noticeable.
If you Noticed - there is no 2/3/4 in the test - It's Mute anyway - we select according to technology
- just like the 55" TV.
No one cares about weight but the RC pilot.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:31 AM   #22
ItsWelshy
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My 2 cents!

My missus has a iPad 3 with Retina, and I have an iPad mini and an iPad 2...

I love the retina display on her iPad 3, it truly is stunning, just like the rMBP, but for me, I think the iPad Mini is perfect, and I'm happy with the portability of the device.

Screen size and lightness of the iPad Mini is for me, the better option.

I dont know why this causes so much debate, all ourt lives are so different and we all have different needs and tastes.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:35 AM   #23
cngisl
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Well Said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsWelshy View Post
My 2 cents!

My missus has a iPad 3 with Retina, and I have an iPad mini and an iPad 2...

I love the retina display on her iPad 3, it truly is stunning, just like the rMBP, but for me, I think the iPad Mini is perfect, and I'm happy with the portability of the device.

Screen size and lightness of the iPad Mini is for me, the better option.

I dont know why this causes so much debate, all ourt lives are so different and we all have different needs and tastes.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:17 AM   #24
steve217
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Originally Posted by Philscbx View Post
Who would actually Care about a gram or 2 extra -
no one is ever going to notice or give weight any factor into a purchase.

With my iPad1 in it's heavily guarded case -
would one notice the iPad4 difference slipped into the case?
can one tell the difference of weight of 8 AA's vs 7 AA's in their hand.

This is just too freakin weird to even consider -
Does the OS & View quality even Matter?



I didn't expect to see this type of comparison -
when the real reason to take a mini out about in the first place -
Is to be easier to read than the damn phone.

This is just getting more weird all the time.
Comparing a Mini to full size Pad? - Do people really think this is why Apple is making the Mini.
The Full Size iPad is no more mobile than MBA - and maybe the same weight if it mattered.

What one reason is there to make the Mini other than a true mobile device platform
with a screen twice the size of phone that can go anywhere stealth?
W/O a backpack - or Purse as big.

Back in bed - sure - use the iPad4 w/Jambox.
Why fire up the MBP, then have it crash to the floor - when falling asleep, plus the heat.
Like that never happened. I've been on the edge lucky.
Many Times - the iPad fills the gap for movie when in a hotel / cabin.
Your post is formatted like poetry. I was trying to find the rhyme pattern.

Let me take a stab at the rhyme...

"Back in bed -
to be sure -
use the iPad, especially the 4
w/Jambox.
Why fire up the MBP,
then have it crash to the floor -
when falling asleep,
plus feel the heat.
Like that never happened.
I've been on the edge,
lucky.
Many Times - the iPad fills the gap
for movie when in a hotel / cabin"

Hmm, that last line was tough..
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:23 AM   #25
harcosparky
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Conversations about the iPad and 'weight' make me laugh, but not a much as conversations about the iPhone and weight.

I mean what kind of people is the world creating, when something as light as an iPhone or an iPad are talked about being too heavy???

Maybe we need more mandatory Physical Education in schools with an emphasis on weight training!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batavian View Post
This was overblown by naysayers when the iPad 3 came out. Burning hands, use as a cup warmer, etc. it's a non issue.
All of our iPad's ( we have one iPad 1/2/3 ) are in leather portfolio cases.

Heat has never been a consideration.
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