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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:59 PM   #1026
rjohnstone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneJack View Post
Well, maybe because competition offers no viable alternative?
Because if you want a modern smartphone with a great hardware and software,
you can buy Galaxy S, which has outdated pentile screens with visible pixels and lower resolution; the only "innovation" Samsung provides is bigger and bigger screens (but there are always even bigger phones..), or you can buy HTC with its huge clock widget and weird buttons.. or you can buy Windows Phone with its live tiles resembling Mac Launcher of 1990s..
Apparently you haven't looked at a Galaxy S3?
It has a higher resolution screen than the iPhone 5 (1136x640).
1280x720 at 306 DPI and while still PenTile, you would be surprised how sharp it is. (PenTile matrix also helps the SAMOLED displays last longer)
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 01:37 AM   #1027
Nale72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
Besides novelty, what do the other phones offer?

Why do you say they're minimal upgrades? What could they add to make you go "Wow!"?

It's funny that Apple bashers keeps saying new iPhones aren't innovative enough and the only thing they keep pointing out is "bigger screen".
Firstly, why must everyone having anything negative or productive (as in: i like it now, but it would be even better if...) to say about what for example iOS lack, don't do as good as some other OS or would be improved by having, be marked as "Apple hater" or "Apple basher"? What's up with that defensive/agressive attitude with so many here? Couldn't it also be that we miss things or would want our iOS be even better? You know, you can like something, but still want it to improve it without being a hater/basher.

I belive you would find this thread enlightning and maybe you should try to be a bit more objective yourself also?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 02:01 AM   #1028
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
How many of those are phones. And how many are all available in the same market?

Yes - Samsung makes several phones in the Galaxy line. But the S3 and Note are are flagship phones. You know it. I know it. And pretty much everyone else knows it.
All of them are available in Australia as of 2013.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
Apparently you haven't looked at a Galaxy S3?
It has a higher resolution screen than the iPhone 5 (1136x640).
1280x720 at 306 DPI and while still PenTile, you would be surprised how sharp it is. (PenTile matrix also helps the SAMOLED displays last longer)
Higher resolution BUT LOWER PPI !

As a matter of fact Sony, HTC, LG and even Motorola produced phones that have better screen than Samsung in 2012. So you can bring your pro Samsung propaganda to XDA.

There's nothing desirable about that blue tinted oversaturated pentile display.

----------

Apple has been reported to have sold around 52 million iPhones in quarter 4 2012. Let's see what the trolls are gonna say.

Apple is doomed. If I had a company I'd rather have a "doomed" company like that

Last edited by louis.b; Jan 16, 2013 at 02:16 AM.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 02:02 AM   #1029
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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
Not surprised, iPhone 4-4s has a much better and durable design than the iPhone 5.

(Durable = less scratches, scuffs)
It's good that you pointed out the "les scratches and scuffs" part.

Otherwise the iPhone 5 is actually much more durable when it comes to dropping. The iPhone 4 and 4S shatter so often, I've replaced 7 screens myself. I've yet to see a shattered iPhone 5 screen, though, I don't see as many iPhone 5's around either.

(I do love my iPhone 5, it does make a difference at 2.5 times the speed, the taller screen, and correct full color; 101% of the color gamut. Even at an angle, it blows away any previous screen I've ever seen, and very slightly better than my Retina iPad screen.)
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 03:03 AM   #1030
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IMO the iPhone reached a point of perfection with 4 and 4S. The original iPhone was pretty woeful. But over the years they've perfected it. And for a while the yearly update worked - because there was always something to gain... But now that we've reached a pretty sweet singularity with it all... i can see why buyers would off. And to be honest, for me, I can't think of anything worse than buying thousand dollar phones every year. In fact my entry into the iPhone world has been through second hand models from friends who upgrade. And right now the 4 does everything I need.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:32 AM   #1031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbookReader View Post
it's over 600,000 mark now.

and production for Nexus 4 is at 20,000 a day or 600,000 a month

source:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=2055351

577,000 2 days ago
Either way 600k is peanuts and completely insignificant even compared to sales of RIM or Nokia Windows Phones.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:37 AM   #1032
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:43 AM   #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louis.b View Post

Higher resolution BUT LOWER PPI !
306 PPI on the S3 vs. 326 PPI on the iPhone 5.

By that point, more is practically an academic distinction. Stick to talking about color, contrast, and everything else. That's the iPhone 5's high point. Pixel density is a waste of time.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:50 AM   #1034
louis.b
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
306 PPI on the S3 vs. 326 PPI on the iPhone 5.

By that point, more is practically an academic distinction. Stick to talking about color, contrast, and everything else. That's the iPhone 5's high point. Pixel density is a waste of time.
As is your point about Samsung having a 720P screen and iphone5 not. I've said this in the past and I am telling you this again: when compared to other flagship phones released in 2012 from HTC, LG, Sony and Apple, S3 has the worst screen. Even Android fan boys agree on this. Blue-tinted oversatured dimly-lit.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:55 AM   #1035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louis.b View Post
As is your point about Samsung having a 720P screen and iphone5 not. I've said this in the past and I am telling you this again: when compared to other flagship phones released in 2012 from HTC, LG, Sony and Apple, S3 has the worst screen. Even Android fan boys agree on this. Blue-tinted oversatured dimly-lit.
Green tinted. At least get it right if you're going to rehash the complaints (shows you're not just repeating stuff you read somewhere, but actually understand issues... you know... that pesky "credibility" thing). Pentile matrix sub pixel arrangement results on a green tint because there's 1 green subpixel per pixel while the red/blue sub pixels are shared with neighboring pixels :

Thumb resize.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 05:05 AM   #1036
louis.b
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Green tinted. At least get it right if you're going to rehash the complaints (shows you're not just repeating stuff you read somewhere, but actually understand issues... you know... that pesky "credibility" thing). Pentile matrix sub pixel arrangement results on a green tint because there's 1 green subpixel per pixel while the red/blue sub pixels are shared with neighboring pixels :

Thumb resize.
Green tinted in theory but to my eyes it's all blue/purple tinted. And It's not I made this up by myself. I used to be an Android fan boy who spent as much time on XDA with the One X and S3 so I know what other fandroids were saying about the display. Also other reviewers have always complained about the blue/ purple tint on white on SAMOLED.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 05:12 AM   #1037
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Originally Posted by louis.b View Post
As is your point about Samsung having a 720P screen and iphone5 not.
My point? I never said anything about the Galaxy having a 720p display. Haven't once in all the time I've posted here.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 05:27 AM   #1038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louis.b View Post
Green tinted in theory but to my eyes it's all blue/purple tinted. And It's not I made this up by myself. I used to be an Android fan boy who spent as much time on XDA with the One X and S3 so I know what other fandroids were saying about the display. Also other reviewers have always complained about the blue/ purple tint on white on SAMOLED.
And yet http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=16538044&postcount=231
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 05:40 AM   #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louis.b View Post
I used to be an Android fan boy
Question. Why do you even want to be a "fan boy" of anything ? Why do you "switch" your "fan" status as you switch devices ?

Why not just be... you know... technology agnostic. Are you a Black n' Decker Fanboy because you just bought a B&D Hammer ? It's the best hammer yet ? Drives nails in much faster ! Of course not, it's probably because it was the cheapest one of the shelf with a rubber handle to prevent slippage. You could have ended up with any brand hammer had any other been on sale that day.

At the end of the day, iOS, Android, iPhone, Galaxy S, One X, Xperia, they are all tools. We use them to get tasks done. I don't use an iPhone, I :

- Make calls
- Send texts
- Check my e-mails
- Chat with friends
- Play some quick mobile games.

No matter the phone/OS on it, I can do these things. I use an iOS device right now because I'm invested in Apple's ecosystem some and switching to Android would require quite a few adjustments and frankly, it's not like it would save me money or give me any advantages that would outweight the pain it would be.

But I don't "hate" Android, I don't feel the need to crap all over it all the time, nor do I feel the need to cheer on Apple or defend iOS or try to hide its flaws. Nothing is perfect.

Having to be a fan of anything must suck if you ask me. I'd rather just be true to myself rather than having to compromise my opinions for a faceless corporation and its product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
My point? I never said anything about the Galaxy having a 720p display. Haven't once in all the time I've posted here.
Poor louis.b, on top of being confused about the tint color of Pentile screens, he's confused on who he's responding to. The 720p argument came from rjohnstone.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:25 AM   #1040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Newsflash - that 18 month requirement? It's not ATT. It's Apple - and what they negotiated with ATT. Apple dictated the terms of that one.
Are you saying that Apple tells ATT when folks can upgrade and in the past they told ATT 1 year was fine and now for the iphone5 they said 18months? I would think the party paying the subsidy would control the time not the party charging it. I believe you but do you have a link to an article talking about that, I just find it so strange
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:38 AM   #1041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Skunk View Post
So I take it you have nothing to say about Apple's drastic decrease in the past 4 months?

Guess you're only good for epic fail one liners.
It wasn't a one liner. It was just pointing out that selling right when Cook took over (as you said you would have) would have been a very bad move. Since even now after the "drastic decrease" APPL is still 20% higher than when Cook officially took over.

As far as my opinion on the decrease, I personally think it is due to several factors which have already been pointed out by others. It was overvalued being the largest along with several known missteps.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:55 AM   #1042
louis.b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Question. Why do you even want to be a "fan boy" of anything ? Why do you "switch" your "fan" status as you switch devices ?

Why not just be... you know... technology agnostic. Are you a Black n' Decker Fanboy because you just bought a B&D Hammer ? It's the best hammer yet ? Drives nails in much faster ! Of course not, it's probably because it was the cheapest one of the shelf with a rubber handle to prevent slippage. You could have ended up with any brand hammer had any other been on sale that day.

At the end of the day, iOS, Android, iPhone, Galaxy S, One X, Xperia, they are all tools. We use them to get tasks done. I don't use an iPhone, I :

- Make calls
- Send texts
- Check my e-mails
- Chat with friends
- Play some quick mobile games.

No matter the phone/OS on it, I can do these things. I use an iOS device right now because I'm invested in Apple's ecosystem some and switching to Android would require quite a few adjustments and frankly, it's not like it would save me money or give me any advantages that would outweight the pain it would be.

But I don't "hate" Android, I don't feel the need to crap all over it all the time, nor do I feel the need to cheer on Apple or defend iOS or try to hide its flaws. Nothing is perfect.

Having to be a fan of anything must suck if you ask me. I'd rather just be true to myself rather than having to compromise my opinions for a faceless corporation and its product.



Poor louis.b, on top of being confused about the tint color of Pentile screens, he's confused on who he's responding to. The 720p argument came from rjohnstone.
I switched not because of the aluminium appeal or Apple's marketing. I have my reason which I am proud to be sticking to.

And you dont have to use the condescending voice to talk to me about the exact colour of the tint. I believe in my eyes and other people's eyes. You can stick to theory if you want. And yeah I got mixed up about who I was responding to. Big deal. Some people here are even confused about the nature of the forum: it's MACrumors not Android/Samsung/Google-meccca.

Last edited by louis.b; Jan 16, 2013 at 07:09 AM.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:01 AM   #1043
KnightWRX
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Originally Posted by louis.b View Post
I switched not because of the aluminium appeal or Apple's marketing. I have my reason which I am proud to be sticking to.
You can have reasons to switch devices/vendors, what I was asking was why do you feel this switch entails a switch in "allegiance" and why have "allegiances" in the first place ? Why have do you feel you need to be a "fanboy" (self claimed) ?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:06 AM   #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
At the end of the day, iOS, Android, iPhone, Galaxy S, One X, Xperia, they are all tools. We use them to get tasks done. I don't use an iPhone, I :

- Make calls
- Send texts
- Check my e-mails
- Chat with friends
- Play some quick mobile games.

No matter the phone/OS on it, I can do these things. I use an iOS device right now because I'm invested in Apple's ecosystem some and switching to Android would require quite a few adjustments and frankly, it's not like it would save me money or give me any advantages that would outweight the pain it would be.
I'm of the opinion that a lot of the extreme scrutiny is due to the number of viable choices. You have a lot of devices on the market that do a good job when presented with a wide range of functions, so the scrutiny begins. I'm in favor of whatever one has the best camera. I own tons of camera gear, yet you always have your phone with you.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:11 AM   #1045
samcraig
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Originally Posted by bartonpaul View Post
Are you saying that Apple tells ATT when folks can upgrade and in the past they told ATT 1 year was fine and now for the iphone5 they said 18months? I would think the party paying the subsidy would control the time not the party charging it. I believe you but do you have a link to an article talking about that, I just find it so strange
No. No article. I only have the conversations I had with ATT (local store); Corporate (a few people).

I posted before about the experience/interactions here before. Rather than get long winded about it - ATT would have had no problem upgrading me if I had an Android phone early (as early as 6 months into my contract because of how long I've been with them, what I pay, yadda yadda) - but their hands were tied when I wanted to upgrade before 18 months because I owned an iPhone. When questioned about it - they stated quite clearly that their contract with Apple prohibits early upgrades (unless, I assume, they approve like when everyone's date got rolled back).

If you think about it - it makes good sense (for Apple at least) to have negotiated this - it keeps people "locked" into their ecosystem and makes it harder to switch "at will." For ATT - it means not having to subsidize another phone (early) while still collecting the same revenue (IE - whether your phone is subsidized or not - you still pay the same monthly bill).

I have no idea if this is still true in 2013. I only speak of my experience in 2012. But ATT was VERY clear that they would LOVE to have upgraded me early and even tried to figure out a way to make it happen. But couldn't.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:15 AM   #1046
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Originally Posted by thekev View Post
I'm of the opinion that a lot of the extreme scrutiny is due to the number of viable choices. You have a lot of devices on the market that do a good job when presented with a wide range of functions, so the scrutiny begins. I'm in favor of whatever one has the best camera. I own tons of camera gear, yet you always have your phone with you.
Sure, with options comes scrutiny and as humans, our needs are different and we get the device that best suits us. But what I have an issue with is that some humans then start to say everyone other choice is "sub-par" "crap" "cheap". Why the need to attack other devices ? Next year, that other company you called "****" might ship the product that best fills your need at that time. You're going to have to eat your words or live without the best product for your needs.

I think the whole notion of "picking camps" is ridiculous and limits our choices as consumers. There is no camp. You owe nothing to any company aside from the money they ask for their products. Any relationship with the company should end at that transaction and any warranty work you have to have done.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:39 AM   #1047
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post

I think the whole notion of "picking camps" is ridiculous and limits our choices as consumers. There is no camp. You owe nothing to any company aside from the money they ask for their products. Any relationship with the company should end at that transaction and any warranty work you have to have done.
I completely agree. I'm not sure if people realize they do this in most cases. I probably do it occasionally after encounter repeated frustration with certain products at a technical level. I'm thinking of a couple displays, and not on phones. Most of the time they're splitting hairs due to the number of choices at similar levels of quality. There's a tendency to normalize their emotional scale along the range of choices, regardless of functional similarity.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:16 AM   #1048
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I am sure you will. I hope when you do - it's not to "gloat" toward those posters like KnightWRX and myself who never stated any doom and gloom for Apple based on this story. In fact - the opposite.

I hope if you do post "a lot" that day - it's to re-iterate that this story was link bait from the get-go.
Jan 23rd will be an interesting day because looking at the facts it's obvious that Apple will have a monster quarter, even for a holiday quarter. I'd be shocked if Apple didn't sell a minimum of 45 million iPhones and that's a low ball estimate
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:27 AM   #1049
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Jan 23rd will be an interesting day because looking at the facts it's obvious that Apple will have a monster quarter, even for a holiday quarter. I'd be shocked if Apple didn't sell a minimum of 45 million iPhones and that's a low ball estimate
I've said it before, I'll say it again : Apple will have some pretty good numbers for us for their Oct-Dec quarter (Q1 '13). Remember, this is the iPhone 5 launch quarter, it's the Holiday season and already looking at numbers from IDC and Gartner, we see Apple has had a very good quarter for both Mac sales and iPhone sales.

There is no indication that permits us to believe in "Gloom and Doom". In fact, this whole "slashes part orders" thing, to me, is again explained by last year's Q3 (Apr-Jun) earning miss, due to Apple overshipping iPhones in Q2, something they probably want to avoid this year :

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Why did this thread devolve into a "Samsung sucks!" thread again ? Are you guys that much impacted by Apple's competition ? Stop the ********, it's sad to read.

Now, for the actual topic, why is anyone surprised by this ? Apple is simply trying to not have the same situation as last year. At the end of Q2 '12, in their April report, Apple said they shipped 35 million units of the iPhone during the quarter (Jan-Mar) :

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012...r-Results.html
Quote:
The Company sold 35.1 million iPhones in the quarter
This was considered pretty good, coming off of a 37 million Q1 '12 for the 4S' introduction quarter. However, Q3 '12 revealed a bit of a hick up with the 35.1 million number, Apple had a very sharp drop in units sold :

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012...r-Results.html
Quote:
The Company sold 26.0 million iPhones in the quarter
This drop, while expected (3rd quarter for the 4S) was sharper than what the company had ever had. The issue was explained by Tim Cook as channel inventory not being depleted from the previous quarter by about 4 million units, the missing units Analysts had predicted (it was considered a miss because analysts were expecting 29 million iPhone units) :

http://www.forbes.com/sites/conniegu...s-live-blog/2/
Quote:
2:25: Cook now is talking about iPhone sales. Says to compare Q2 and Q3 sales and note that there’s a channel inventory difference. That effects sell through trends.
Basically, what happened was that Q2's 35 million units shouldn't have been that high, Apple didn't sell 35 million to end users (you know, that argument you guys use against the competition ?) and it hurt them in Q3, where 4 million units were still sitting on shelves, thus lower orders coming in resulting in the sharp decline to 26 million units instead of the expected 29.

Apple doesn't want a repeat of this. It's that simple. So they'll lower orders and probably just artificially lower output of iPhone models for Q2 so that come Q3, there is no "inventory stuffing". No doom and gloom, no "Samsung sucks!" needed. It's all based on last year's performance and the earning's miss of Q3. Relax folks, nothing is amiss.
I bolded a little comment I made in that long post that attempts to rationalize such a "parts slash" if it is indeed true. And I'm still accused of being an Apple hater, even after I post stuff like this.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:34 AM   #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi Wan Kenobi View Post
This doesn't surprise me for two reasons.

1 The iPhone 5 wasn't that much of a spec upgrade compared to the 4S. It was significantly thinner and lighter, but that doesn't matter enough to most people to get them to make a 600 upgrade.

They should have given customers more 'bang for their buck', rather than just a slimmer form factor, and longer screen.

2 The rumours of an early refresh in Mid 2013 seem quite possible give the horrifically short time between the iPad 3 and iPad 4 upgrades. People don't want to get burned twice.

(and yes, I bought an ipad 3)
The other thought I had:

Even though the most compelling feature on the new phone for a lot of people was LTE, all of the major carriers in the United States are still rolling out their LTE solutions and won't be finished until late summer or fall.

So all of that capability in the new phone won't really help if you can't use it. Where I live there we have LTE in certain spots but they probably have a long ways to go before it's widespread.

It's thin and light and faster which is good enough for some people but I believe some people were wanting more.

Also don't discount the power of macrumors: people also looking at this and other rumor sites that showed that mockup of an iphone5 that was sort of an unusual shape with a bigger screen. When people didn't get that they were dissappointed. 3d rendering done by some guy laboring in obscurity trumps apple design apparently for a lot of people.

Who was that guy anyway?
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