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Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:19 PM   #801
kazmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
Either they use the larger pixels in larger numbers or they don't.
If they don't need larger pixels then it is possible to put the same pixels into a smaller space. In that case they are not taking anything away from those professional. It is the same functionality in lighter, more portable equipment. I don't know many professionals that need to move around that like lugging around stuff that is more heaving and larger than it has to be.

For example, the new Nikon 800 takes photos that are 7360 x 4912. What is going to be better at displaying all those pixels to the "pro". A 1920 x1200 screen or a 2880 by 1800 screen ? Similarly for high end video folks moving to 4K resolutions. Better on 1920 x1200 or 2880 x 1800 ?
(and if need a fancy external full size, standard pro studio monitor , then don't need a 17" screen http://www.aja.com/en/products/t-tap/#/overview )


If Apple killed off the 17" display and didn't add a higher res 15" screen that would be a regression. This can easily be moving forward if the rumored more high density screens roll out, but with a smaller form factor.




This is just the FUD spread when some minority niche wants to puff themselves up to be more significant. The Mac has always been created for everybody. "The computer for the rest of us" .... not "The computer for the artsy elitist" If all the non a/v folks had not bought Macs over the years the Mac would have died off long ago. The a/v crowd didn't save the Mac by themselves. That is just often repeated folk tales.

If those people bought Macs and got a good value then they made an equivalent exchange with Apple. Apple doesn't "owe" them anything any more than they owe Apple something (are required to buy an Apple product in the future).

Fact is that in general over an extended period of time computers tend to get smaller and more capable. Primarily, that is the factor that is killing off the 17" Mac.
You are correct as today's keynote shows. Since I know several professionals but am not one, I spoke without knowing the facts. It's apparent the 15" next gen MBP has everything the 17" did and a little more.

Thanks for the update and accurate predictions.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:30 PM   #802
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Hi All,

I missed most of what Apple revealed - did they officially announce that the 17" MBP's were discontinued?

Bazzy!
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:38 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post
Hi All,

I missed most of what Apple revealed - did they officially announce that the 17" MBP's were discontinued?

Bazzy!
Yep its finished.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:53 PM   #804
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Yep its finished.
Hi,

OK, thanks! Kind of sad & happy - I just got one about 3 weeks ago - lets hope these last generation 17" MBP's become collectors items!

Bazzy!
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 01:58 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by jcpb View Post
I see your workstation and raise you a 20-inch laptop... from almost 6 years ago:

Image
link
LOL. That's great.

It reminds me of this video where people just brought in desktops (with CRTs) to use at Starbucks.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 09:32 PM   #806
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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Hahaha yeah.

As cool as that Laptop is, its not the most useable thing ever.

Still though, the cloest thing the Mac side has to my Alienware is the 17 inch Macbook Pro, and its a really well made laptop. Apple should stick with it, im sure it makes money.
I guess they ditched the 17 inch entirely.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 10:57 PM   #807
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I guess they ditched the 17 inch entirely.
Yep. Defying logic as usual.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:29 PM   #808
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ogm... is this the a new era of bozo explosion at apple? sorry for being blunt but ..prioritise profits over legacy? did they move from the intersection of technology and liberal arts to the intersection of benjamins and market share? Back to Gill Amelio again? I need the 17" laptop... the 15" is not ****ing grey enough. Ring any bells? i used to think that Apple inc. was somewhat different, there is no hope for mankind. Back to basics, right? are you guys at apple listening? Hope you dont fancy yourselves too big to fail, take a good look around. Steve could be many things but i am sure that he would veto this move and would keep an eye on the bozo who came up with the suggestion based solely on market advantage. So now if i want a 17" screen should i be stuck to a desk? or move to windos? Please give me your best answer Mr. Cooks. thank you. lol... he will never read this, will he? Miss you Steve.. we all do.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 12:40 PM   #809
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now that apple discontinued the 17" macbook pro line this is what will happen to whoever works with photography or moving pictures and wants to be mobile. Or they can just get the inadequacy of a smaller 15". Or worse, go back to windows.... watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKEeHREK2nQ
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Old Aug 3, 2012, 08:41 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by cardosokilas View Post
ogm... is this the a new era of bozo explosion at apple? sorry for being blunt but ..prioritise profits over legacy? did they move from the intersection of technology and liberal arts to the intersection of benjamins and market share? Back to Gill Amelio again? I need the 17" laptop... the 15" is not ****ing grey enough. Ring any bells? i used to think that Apple inc. was somewhat different, there is no hope for mankind. Back to basics, right? are you guys at apple listening? Hope you dont fancy yourselves too big to fail, take a good look around. Steve could be many things but i am sure that he would veto this move and would keep an eye on the bozo who came up with the suggestion based solely on market advantage. So now if i want a 17" screen should i be stuck to a desk? or move to windos? Please give me your best answer Mr. Cooks. thank you. lol... he will never read this, will he? Miss you Steve.. we all do.
Sadly I think this was a leftover SJ move. I am a 17" lover, and I am still looking for an adequate replacement for the machine, but I had a feeling Apple was going to start axing it's niche products. The 17" MBP and the Mac Pro are two machines that in the end Apple just doesn't need to turn a profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardosokilas View Post
now that apple discontinued the 17" macbook pro line this is what will happen to whoever works with photography or moving pictures and wants to be mobile. Or they can just get the inadequacy of a smaller 15". Or worse, go back to windows.... watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKEeHREK2nQ
Well, it might not go that far, but everyone will be squinting at their screens if they are doing anything that involved more than Facebook and Twitter.
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Old Aug 3, 2012, 08:51 AM   #811
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I feel bad for everyone who liked the 17" but I have a 15" cause I used to own a 13" and hated that it didn't have a dedicated GPU, but everyone who wanted a 17" why don't they get a rMBP, better resolution and SSD with faster RAM for the video and photo edditing, and if they don't bring it around that often just go for an iMac?
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Old Aug 3, 2012, 08:54 AM   #812
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Originally Posted by Digital Skunk View Post
Sadly I think this was a leftover SJ move. I am a 17" lover, and I am still looking for an adequate replacement for the machine, but I had a feeling Apple was going to start axing it's niche products. The 17" MBP and the Mac Pro are two machines that in the end Apple just doesn't need to turn a profit.



Well, it might not go that far, but everyone will be squinting at their screens if they are doing anything that involved more than Facebook and Twitter.
Of course Apple is killing off its niche products,g they aren't actually a computer company anymore. They're a consumer based company now. They don't give a rats ass about anything orher than itoys, and making things needlessly thin
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Old Aug 3, 2012, 10:30 AM   #813
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but everyone who wanted a 17" why don't they get a rMBP, better resolution and SSD with faster RAM for the video and photo edditing, and if they don't bring it around that often just go for an iMac?
Um, read the thread, Beezzy ...
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Old Aug 5, 2012, 12:48 PM   #814
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Um, read the thread, Beezzy ...
....and pay attention to the dates.....
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Old Sep 24, 2012, 02:47 AM   #815
vpro
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Please advise..

Do these specs make sense for the Best Buy's 17" macbook pro listed here:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/...57fcb9cff9en02

I am particularly interested in the 'ram speed' does that look right or can it be upgraded with DDR3 1333 MHz, or even up to 16GB 1600 MHz

Is this a late Oct.2011?

If it is a French laptop, does that mean I can switch it back in the initial boot / set up to English?

Thank you!
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Old Sep 25, 2012, 09:55 AM   #816
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If it is a French laptop, does that mean I can switch it back in the initial boot / set up to English?
Yes, but it will presumably have an AZERTY keyboard, which would be a pain.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 02:29 PM   #817
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Yes, but it will presumably have an AZERTY keyboard, which would be a pain.
Better shut up when you don't know.
Canadian French keyboards are QWERTYs with accents.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:26 AM   #818
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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Of course Apple is killing off its niche products,g they aren't actually a computer company anymore. They're a consumer based company now. They don't give a rats ass about anything orher than itoys, and making things needlessly thin
This is the very sad truth. Apple got bloated and has popped. They sacrificed those of us who had helped build them up by discontinuing the 17 inch MacBook Pro, lagging indefinitely on the Mac Pro, and focusing on iPads, iPhones, and iPods. Big business is unsustainable, ruins innovation, and detracts from quality.

I grew up in the East Bay and have been working on Apple computers since they came out in the early 80s. Steve Jobs / Apple created an amazing counter-cultural explosion, but in the end they sold us out.

I'm at the point where I am being forced to consider alternatives to the 17 inch MacBook Pro because it appears to have been discontinued. I would get an iMac, but they're not portable. So I guess at some point in the next couple of years I'm going to need to replace my 2011 17 inch with a non-Apple computer.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:01 AM   #819
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Originally Posted by Mums View Post
This is the very sad truth. Apple got bloated and has popped. They sacrificed those of us who had helped build them up by discontinuing the 17 inch MacBook Pro, lagging indefinitely on the Mac Pro, and focusing on iPads, iPhones, and iPods. Big business is unsustainable, ruins innovation, and detracts from quality.
Uh ? The 17 inch MacBook Pro was essentially replaced by the rMBP 15". The only thing the 17 inch had going for it was the 1920x1200 monitor. Guess what ? That's the resolution my rMBP 15" runs at permanently.

Hence, no need to fatten up the line-up with a 17" model that barely sells.

And again, why do you people feel Apple need to concentrate on the Mac Pro, something like 1-2% of the revenues, vs the iPhone and iPad, 70% of their revenue ? If I were running a business, I know I'd concentrate on what brings in 70% of the money I make, rather than the 1-2%.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:37 AM   #820
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Uh ? The 17 inch MacBook Pro was essentially replaced by the rMBP 15". The only thing the 17 inch had going for it was the 1920x1200 monitor. Guess what ? That's the resolution my rMBP 15" runs at permanently.

Hence, no need to fatten up the line-up with a 17" model that barely sells.

And again, why do you people feel Apple need to concentrate on the Mac Pro, something like 1-2% of the revenues, vs the iPhone and iPad, 70% of their revenue ? If I were running a business, I know I'd concentrate on what brings in 70% of the money I make, rather than the 1-2%.
Because 1-2% is not 1-2% as people who need/own a Mac Pro finally give up on Apple to keep the Pro going then what will happen as they move elsewhere will they keep the MacBook Pro they own when its getting old, the iPhone( i keep mine while in a Mac environment if that changed i would probably go Android) so in the end they will loose way more than the quoted small percentage.
There was a time when an Apple keynote speech was something i rushed home for, not now, i wonder what the next disappoint will be, the anorexic Mac syndrome is getting a bit tiresome as they leave more and more things off just to make it thinner.
Have they run out of ideas? not much has changed in a few years maybe brighter, quicker, off course thinner but no WOW factor.
I love all my Apple stuff it is has served me well past and present (my hand me downs are still working and used by other members of the family) and i am not on an Apple bashing crusade i just want to get that excitement/expectation back.
No company is one man but those who predicted that without SJ at the helm it could not be the same i sadly feel they may be right.
Prove me wrong Apple lets have an all singing all dancing Mac Pro a fresh design a desktop bit of art (i love the design of the one i own mind you) thats where Apple should be different from the rest.
PS; i have a 17'' MBP antiglare and would miss it if any thing happened to it, same res as MBPr but spread out more, it works for me.

Last edited by righteye; Jan 16, 2013 at 08:42 AM.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:43 AM   #821
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Because 1-2% is not 1-2% as people who need/own a Mac Pro finally give up on Apple to keep the Pro going then what will happen as they move elsewhere will they keep the MacBook Pro they own when its getting old, the iPhone( i keep mine while in a Mac environment if that changed i would probably go Android) so in the end they will loose way more than the quoted small percentage.
Recent years have inverted the "gateway product" effect. It's now the iPhone that brings people to Mac and not Macs that bring people to iPhones. The Mac Pro really is 1-2%, most people buying iPhones (over 20-30 million per quarter) are not influenced by their own Mac Pro or Mac Pros sold to others.

That's the whole point, some of you guys still don't see it, same as with the 17" MBP. Those are not the gateway products they once were and as such, Apple concentrates on what products are both their biggest revenue generators and their new gateway products. iPhones/iPads result in sales of Macs. Hence they concentrate on those products and draw in those users to the Mac, making that product more interesting to these iPhone/iPad owners.

Face it, this is what is best for the shareholders and Apple as a company and they have absolutely 0 reason to do anything different.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:27 AM   #822
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Your argument is correct, but, I suggest, incomplete.

Historically, it has been the high-end Mac users who have been the people friends turn to for purchase recommendations. I've recommended Macs to a great many friends, and even more strangers on forums.

If Apple loses opinion-leaders, they will lose a great deal more than 1-2% of sales.

And no, a 15-inch MBP running at 1920x1200 is not a substitute for a 17-inch laptop running at the same resolution.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:35 AM   #823
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Historically, it has been the high-end Mac users who have been the people friends turn to for purchase recommendations. I've recommended Macs to a great many friends, and even more strangers on forums.
Historically. Doesn't mean it holds true anymore. I've even said so myself. You say my argument is incomplete, yet you've added nothing to it. What part do you feel my argument is missing ?

Historically, the Macs were the gateway devices, pushing recommendations to users to buy into the Mac product line or to other Apple devices like the iPod.

But trends have been reversed now that the iPad and iPhone are the lion share of Apple's business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benbikeman View Post
And no, a 15-inch MBP running at 1920x1200 is not a substitute for a 17-inch laptop running at the same resolution.
Reasoning ? I find it is.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:41 AM   #824
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Recent years have inverted the "gateway product" effect. It's now the iPhone that brings people to Mac and not Macs that bring people to iPhones. The Mac Pro really is 1-2%, most people buying iPhones (over 20-30 million per quarter) are not influenced by their own Mac Pro or Mac Pros sold to others.

That's the whole point, some of you guys still don't see it, same as with the 17" MBP. Those are not the gateway products they once were and as such, Apple concentrates on what products are both their biggest revenue generators and their new gateway products. iPhones/iPads result in sales of Macs. Hence they concentrate on those products and draw in those users to the Mac, making that product more interesting to these iPhone/iPad owners.

Face it, this is what is best for the shareholders and Apple as a company and they have absolutely 0 reason to do anything different.
I agreed then and I agree now, even more so in retrospect. Those niche products don't help Apple make money, so axe them. More folks where buying Final Cut Express and iMovie over Final Cut Pro, so bring down the overhead, the price and make it easier to transition from iMovie to FCPX.

Apple is a business in the end, and high end, niche product buyers (i.e. Mac Pro and 17" MBP users) just don't add anything substantial to the revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benbikeman View Post
Your argument is correct, but, I suggest, incomplete.

Historically, it has been the high-end Mac users who have been the people friends turn to for purchase recommendations. I've recommended Macs to a great many friends, and even more strangers on forums.

If Apple loses opinion-leaders, they will lose a great deal more than 1-2% of sales.

And no, a 15-inch MBP running at 1920x1200 is not a substitute for a 17-inch laptop running at the same resolution.
I don't think that's even the case anymore. While many users may look to specialist friends for purchasing advice, I would wager that the majority are either making an informed decision on their own, going to retail for the advice, or are totally set on the Mac based on their experience with the iPhone and iPad.

I do agree that the 15" is no way shape or form a suitable replacement. I'd rather have a Retina 17" that starts at $3299, or at the very least just a larger screen at 1920x1080.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 09:52 AM   #825
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[Apple] sacrificed those of us who had helped build them up by discontinuing the 17 inch MacBook Pro, lagging indefinitely on the Mac Pro, and focusing on iPads, iPhones, and iPods.
Apple 'sacrificed' these people? You and Apple exchanged money, goods, and services; they don't owe you anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benbikeman View Post
Historically, it has been the high-end Mac users who have been the people friends turn to for purchase recommendations. . . . If Apple loses opinion-leaders, they will lose a great deal more than 1-2% of sales.
The dweebs whining about the Mac Pro aren't 'opinion leaders' and haven't been for years. Their purchase advice is completely insignificant.

The number of people who want to buy a Mac or iOS device AND who care about someone's advice because they use Serious Mac Pro Equipment For Real Work is rapidly approaching zero, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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