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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:34 AM   #51
Rogifan
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Originally Posted by japanime View Post
I don't disagree with you. But the fact remains that the stock market pays attention to reports originating with major wire services like Reuters.
I don't care about the stock market (and I'm guessing MacRumors doesn't either). My issue is with sites like MacRumors, AppleInsider etc. reporting on this stuff and making conclusions based off basically nothing. IF this rumor is true, for all we know it could be because a new iPad is coming this quarter (we have heard rumors about that too) and Apple is moving to IGZO displays. But true or not, there is nothing in this story that would allow one to come to any conclusions. Yet true to form, that's what most people here are doing.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:34 AM   #52
HenryDJP
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Originally Posted by WiiDSmoker View Post
Maybe I'm in a different dimension; but back home, Windows has never been a closed environment.
It's not so much that Windows is a closed environment, but MS's monopoly creates that type of environment. Corporations using Windows also use MS Exchange, Access, Server, Office, Internet Explorer and the like making all but easy for other companies to get in and mix into the environment. So in a way Windows is considered "Closed".
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:38 AM   #53
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No, you're completely wrong, see my post on page 1. What he said was that 10 inch was the minimum size to make great tablet apps :

That means he would find the iPad Mini to not be a platform where its possible to make great tablet apps.

People are always so quick to rewrite what Steve said. Good thing the Internet remembers quotes. Don't rewrite history, Steve wasn't always right about everything! Steve is allowed to be wrong.
As even you have said, he also said Apple would never produce a video iPod.

Steve Jobs was wrong about a lot of things (G4 Cube, Lisa, etc.). And it does appear from the Samsung testimony that it did take some convincing before he signed off on it. I believe it was Eddy Cue who bought one of the 7" Android tablets in 2010 and concluded there could be a market for them. I've also read that the push for the 10" screen was to differentiate it from the iPhone. As it was, people claimed in 2010 that the iPad was just a "big iPod Touch." A 7" or even 8" device in 2010 would just have reinforced it. Instead, Apple got developers to write dedicated tablet apps, which to this day Google has struggled to do for Android, despite its significant market share.

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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
It's not so much that Windows is a closed environment, but MS's monopoly creates that type of environment. Corporations using Windows also use MS Exchange, Access, Server, Office, Internet Explorer and the like making all but easy for other companies to get in and mix into the environment. So in a way Windows is considered "Closed".
Any company can take Android, customize it however they want, and put it in their products to sell. You can't do that with Windows. First of all, Microsoft charges a license fee, and second, they don't allow you to edit the code.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:39 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Count the posts making assumptions, count the post discussing the famous Steve Jobs "10 inch is the minimum size quote" and count the posts saying this article is complete crap.

I would so "most people" aren't doing what you're accusing them of doing, drop the paranoia a few levels.
Ok I got ahead of myself but if the iPhone 5 component cuts thread is anything to go by that's where this thread will end up. The WJS report was just as flimsy, the only difference is they made an assumption (weak demand) part of their story whereas Reuters hasn't.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:40 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by TC03 View Post
What does give Android devices an edge is the following:

1. They're cheaper.
2. They have bigger screens.
They are not cheaper, in fact the Note is more expensive then iPhone.

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Originally Posted by lozpop View Post
Jobs talked about 7 inches tablets, the iPad mini is 8 inches a huge difference in terms of user experience.
Amazon sold gazillion of 6 and 7 inchers. Samsung 5.5" Note sold in millions too. Steve messed up.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:41 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Ok I got ahead of myself but if the iPhone 5 component cuts thread is anything to go by that's where this thread will end up. The WJS report was just as flimsy, the only difference is they made an assumption (weak demand) part of their story whereas Reuters hasn't.
WSJ is a respected institution in financial journalism. Reuters is just a news aggregator. Again, credibility counts for a lot in these stories. Just the fact that the WSJ was reporting the iPhone 5 made it more credible that some random Reuteurs piece.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:43 AM   #57
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There goes the stock again! UGH!
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:44 AM   #58
HenryDJP
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Any company can take Android, customize it however they want, and put it in their products to sell. You can't do that with Windows. First of all, Microsoft charges a license fee, and second, they don't allow you to edit the code.
Okay firstly I think you missed the point I was making because your counterpoint doesn't seem like a counterpoint. . I was saying that Microsoft created an ecosystem with Windows and it's essentials in the corporate world making it impossible for other companies to level out the playing field so in a way the Windows system is very much closed.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:45 AM   #59
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It appears that Apple has finally hit market saturation in its products(see the iPhone production cut backs).

People who own or bought Apple were previously upgrading frequently but the cost of frequent upgrading has appeared to hit a toll on current Apple owners finances or the upgrade is not worth the cost, which are the ones keeping Apple afloat.

This is the start of the implosion of Apple unless Apple fanatics unite and resume purchasing incremental upgrades.

I believe that is why Apple is moving to more frequent upgrade cycles because they see their ROI and EBITA declining every quarter & need to entice current Apple consumers to upgrade frequently.

Apple is going to have to create/develop some new products or lower prices to stay afloat or be competitive.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:46 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
Okay firstly I think you missed the point I was making because your counterpoint doesn't seem like a counterpoint. . I was saying that Microsoft created an ecosystem with Windows and it's essentials in the corporate world making it impossible for other companies to level out the playing field so in a way the Windows system is very much closed.
KPOM was right on the money on why Windows is a closed system. Your argument that Microsoft used its Windows monopoly to attempt to push its other products is not what makes Windows closed.

On its own, without the whole "ecosystem", Microsoft Windows is a single-vendor, proprietary operating system. That's what "closed" means.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:49 AM   #61
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There goes the stock again! UGH!
It's in some people's interest to keep the stock below $500 until the 19th.

Seeking Alpha: Buy Apple On January 18
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:52 AM   #62
HenryDJP
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
KPOM was right on the money on why Windows is a closed system. Your argument that Microsoft used its Windows monopoly to attempt to push its other products is not what makes Windows closed.

On its own, without the whole "ecosystem", Microsoft Windows is a single-vendor, proprietary operating system. That's what "closed" means.
Ever heard of an opinion?? Yeah, you seem to always have one. Allow someone else to have one. My idea of what something is doesn't have to be yours and MS might disagree with your take on the matter as well so don't join someone on this forum and gang up on me telling me I'm wrong. I guess your the only right person here. And for the record I never once stated anything about MS using Windows to push it's other products. READ please?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:53 AM   #63
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Apple is DOOMED™
YouTube - Bender and Anti-Bender tell us all about it
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:56 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Navdakilla View Post
Sound the alarms!!!!!
and also

Alarm the Sounds !!!!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dejo View Post
It's in some people's interest to keep the stock below $500 until the 19th
Payday the 18th then ?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:01 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by dejo View Post
It's in some people's interest to keep the stock below $500 until the 19th.

Seeking Alpha: Buy Apple On January 18
I believe this too.... keep it low just before the biggest earnings ever for Apple and a lot of people will make some serious cash. Just wishing I would have waited to buy more under 500.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:06 AM   #66
KnightWRX
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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
Ever heard of an opinion?? Yeah, you seem to always have one. Allow someone else to have one
I'm using the definitions of open/closed as used in this industry. It's not a case of opinions.

Single vendor, proprietary = closed. The Cathedral.
Multi vendor, documented standard = open. The Bazaar.

Why do people feel "Closed" is an insult and absolutely must defend so kind of twisted notion that "Windows is open!". Windows is a closed operating system, it uses a different development model than an open operating system. No wrong about that. Closed or Open is not inherently Bad vs Good.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:06 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by bawbac View Post
It appears that Apple has finally hit market saturation in its products(see the iPhone production cut backs).

People who own or bought Apple were previously upgrading frequently but the cost of frequent upgrading has appeared to hit a toll on current Apple owners finances or the upgrade is not worth the cost, which are the ones keeping Apple afloat.

This is the start of the implosion of Apple unless Apple fanatics unite and resume purchasing incremental upgrades.

I believe that is why Apple is moving to more frequent upgrade cycles because they see their ROI and EBITA declining every quarter & need to entice current Apple consumers to upgrade frequently.

Apple is going to have to create/develop some new products or lower prices to stay afloat or be competitive.
"It appears..." Based on what? How about we wait until Apple's earnings call before making statements like this.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:07 AM   #68
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The "good enough" effect.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:07 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by mac1984user View Post
I tend to see a lot of Nexus 7s these days when commuting on the train. It's not a sign of any kind of sales trajectory necessarily, but I'm always kind of shocked to see non-Apple tablets out in the open - it seems to be more of a regular occurrence these days (perhaps for good reasons). I was half tempted by a Nexus and bought the 4th gen iPad instead due to the apps I already own for it. There's no doubt, however, that my next phone will be the Nexus 4. =)

I wonder if Apple will be able to say that they cannibalised the iPad 4 market with the Mini or if they'll start acknowledging the actual (or potential) impact the reasonably priced Android tablets are starting to have.
I'm one of those Nexus 7 owners. I'm taking it with me to work because it fits in a coat pocket instead of my iPad 3 which requires a bag. But if a year from now there is a retina iPad mini, well I might be back and you might see that instead. Certainly I don't expect my Nexus 7 to be my go to tablet two years from now. And while I like it for a lot of things. It doesn't pull up standard 8 by 11 sheet documents very well. IPad blows those up to nearly lifesize. And Mini handles them well enough to be very readable (though not retina screen). The 7 inch screen is just a little too small for standard docs.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:08 AM   #70
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This is a BS rumor, or simply an inaccurate conclusion. There could be a lot of reasons for this, some possibilities already mentioned by other users in this thread.

The iPad Mini is not replacing the regular iPad. It simply added a new group of users.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:09 AM   #71
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You guys still think they can compete against an open platform like android?
Open what? For malware and viruses? Last time I checked Android users are still rooting the device even though it's supposed to be "open".
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:10 AM   #72
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Oh good, another unfounded rumour to try and drop AAPL before the quarterly results come out.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:10 AM   #73
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The iPad Mini is not replacing the regular iPad. It simply added a new group of users.
Look, that's just not true. The iPad Mini, while adding new users to Apple, will also have replaced the regular iPad for others. Cross-model cannibilization is not surprising. Claiming that the iPad Mini 100% replaces the regular iPad or 100% brings in new users are both wrong positions.

It's a little of both.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:11 AM   #74
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Amazon sold gazillion of 6 and 7 inchers. Samsung 5.5" Note sold in millions too. Steve messed up.
I wonder if Steve was right that the 7 inchers are too small for certain uses. But he didn't realize how much folks would be doing things like twitter and facebook on these devices. A small screen is a problem if you want to read a word document (I've tried on my Nexus 7) but if you are reading a 140 character tweet or three sentence facebook update, then there is no problem. Also, if you are playing Angry Birds or Temple Run, then the size if definitely sufficient. It just depends on what you want to do with the device.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:12 AM   #75
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Apple fiscal-first quarter earnings on January 23.
On Wednesday we will all know more.

It doesn't excite me at all, though. Apple is doing more than fine. Even with possibly declining profit margins they are super-healthy, making a lot of real money (unlike Amazon - they are as far as I am informed bleeding massive amounts of cash).

What I'm excited about is Jony taking responsibility for the software frontend. I'm really looking forward to see the changes — and I hope his admiration for and inspiration from Dieter Rams continues.
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