Once and for all: MKV to MP4

[JRoDDz]

MKV and MP4 are simply containers and not codecs. If your MKV file is encoded in h.264 then it's as simple as remuxing the file with subler or mp4tools. If your MKV has a different codec such as xvid, then you have to re-encode the whole video as muxing will not work.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by JRoDDz

MKV and MP4 are simply containers and not codecs. If your MKV file is encoded in h.264 then it's as simple as remuxing the file with subler or mp4tools. If your MKV has a different codec such as xvid, then you have to re-encode the whole video as muxing will not work.

It's not quite that simple, using Subler, if you have a DTS audio track in the mkv and want to play the mp4 using aTV.

[JRoDDz]

Originally Posted by mic j

It's not quite that simple, using Subler, if you have a DTS audio track in the mkv and want to play the mp4 using aTV.

Foiled again by mic j! LOL. You're right regarding the DTS tracks. I try to keep my video files simple, 1 video track, 1 (2 channel) audio track, and a 1 subtitle track.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by JRoDDz

Foiled again by mic j! LOL. You're right regarding the DTS tracks. I try to keep my video files simple, 1 video track, 1 (2 channel) audio track, and a 1 subtitle track.

The real funny thing...I don't remux anything!!

[JMEANS]

Originally Posted by mic j

mp4tools can accomplish the same as Subler (change containers) with the addition of converting DTS to AC3 and easily adding an AAC stereo track. Subler has the capability to add metadata and OCR subtitle tracks for conversion to srt files. Menneisyys2, who also post around here, also claims Subler to be faster than mp4tools.

To just change containers in mp4tools and create an AC3 5.1 audio track from a DTS track: select video pass-through, audio AC3 5.1 and add 2-Ch. track (if you need that compatibility).

If you would like to change containers using DTS with Subler: Open the original mkv in mp4tools, check the 2 DTS tracks (if HD audio), audio AC3 (5.1), add 2-channel AC3. Convert. Then use Subler to mux the video track (from the original mkv) with the 2 audio tracks from the mp4 (produced by mp4tools).

I just think it's more straightforward to change containers (for files with DTS audio) using mp4tools than to basically create the audio tracks and remux them. But to each his own.

IMO, for any video needing transcoding, use HB and add metadata using Subler. I just don't know what is being done in mp4tools for transcoding and I have long experience with HB transcodes and know that they are the best. Also, because mp4tools uses 1/2 pass transcodes instead of constant quality (as HB does), that makes me believe it uses older algorithms for the transcodes.

Edit: I was just looking at mp4tools with a dts mkv and noticed that if you do not select the video for pass-through, it will not give you the option to create an 2-channel AAC track. Never noticed that before and not sure why it requires the video to be selected to give that option.

Basically guys I always use MakeMKV, HandBreak & SUBLER when ripping my Blu-ray collection to great success thanks to this forum, so i never have to worry about the DTS because HB always takes care of that. However I have come across ; ) MKV files that have all ready been ripped (reduced in size)by others at great quality! So switching containers is all i want to do! I do not want to compromise quality or size further.

That being said,
these MKV's sometimes have a single DTS track as explained above, which is why i asked the question. I realize now I cannot just run a MKV w/DTS audio and end up with a discrete 5.1 AC3 track now.

So lets see if i got the workflow correct here:

1.) MKV w/DTS 5.1 goes thru MP4Tools 1st just to switch container and the DTS to AC3! No transcoding etc. takes place! Resulting in the same quality and size.

2.) I then take this file and run it through Subler to tag & optimize! AC3 audio is now present and looks like an MKV that never had DTS to begin with : )

3.) Happy Camper!

Thanks Again Mic J
I learned a hell of a lot today and home from work and ready to try!

My version of MP4Tools is Version 3.2.b15 is that the Beta?

[dynaflash]

Good luck. That said if the workflow gets to be a pita might want to test and see how the atv 3 preset in HB does in terms of perceptual visual quality. yes it will lose some quality (course you can always raise the quality level from say .. 20 to 19) but the point is many people once they actually do a visual test on say a 50" 1080p tv have a hard time telling the difference if at all. The trick is losing "quality" where the human eye really cannot perceive it.

That said sounds like you have a decent workflow. Sometimes the journey is more gratifying than the destination. Good luck and have fun!

[JMEANS]

Thanks Dynaflash much appreciated! Just downloaded the New NIGHTLY and my,my, my that is snazzy! Certainly going to be hard to go back like you said!
JIM

[mic j]

Originally Posted by JMEANS

Basically guys I always use MakeMKV, HandBreak & SUBLER when ripping my Blu-ray collection to great success thanks to this forum, so i never have to worry about the DTS because HB always takes care of that. However I have come across ; ) MKV files that have all ready been ripped (reduced in size)by others at great quality! So switching containers is all i want to do! I do not want to compromise quality or size further.

That being said,
these MKV's sometimes have a single DTS track as explained above, which is why i asked the question. I realize now I cannot just run a MKV w/DTS audio and end up with a discrete 5.1 AC3 track now.

So lets see if i got the workflow correct here:

1.) MKV w/DTS 5.1 goes thru MP4Tools 1st just to switch container and the DTS to AC3! No transcoding etc. takes place! Resulting in the same quality and size.

2.) I then take this file and run it through Subler to tag & optimize! AC3 audio is now present and looks like an MKV that never had DTS to begin with : )

3.) Happy Camper!

Thanks Again Mic J
I learned a hell of a lot today and home from work and ready to try!

My version of MP4Tools is Version 3.2.b15 is that the Beta?

Sounds like a plan. If you want a 2-channel track other iDevice compatibility, you can select the 2-channel AAC radio button. Finally you are using an older version of mp4tools. It is out of beta and you can download the release version 3.2.2.

Good luck!

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by JMEANS

Thanks Dynaflash much appreciated! Just downloaded the New NIGHTLY and my,my, my that is snazzy! Certainly going to be hard to go back like you said!
JIM

Well, bear in mind that we are switching some of the presets a bit however, the built in presets on the nightly you just downloaded will be the same as before. That new video tab interface is not yet connected to the built ins which is good as its backwards compatible. Basically you can still use the advanced panel to "tweak" things. in the next few weeks it will switch to the new x264 presets system. No worries it should be seamless. Have fun.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by JMEANS

That being said is it then transcoding the quality and size etc of the file like HB or just switching the container like SUBLER does but with the new AC3 audio (from DTS)?

(mic_j has already answered your post; I only answer to provide additional info.)

Unfortunately, HB will, it seems, never receive plain remuxing capabilities - the developers stated they, because of the synch issues, don't want to add remuxing (see https://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic...24619&p=113896 for more info). That is, you absolutely must use other tools (Subler / MP4Tools etc.) for quick, no-video-reencoding conversions.

----------

Originally Posted by mic j

Menneisyys2, who also post around here, also claims Subler to be faster than mp4tools.

Yup, it is faster. I've conducted a lot of benchmarks; the most up-to-date ones are at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81986513/12...kv2-chart.html (it's a chart link). As you can see, the more audio tracks you convert with MP4Tools, the (much) slower it becomes, while Subler doesn't take that much a hit.

(More info and result evaluation in the MKV2M4V article at http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1504900 ).

[mic j]

By the way, I converted an mkv (mpeg2) to mp4 (h.264) the other day using the new version of mp4tools (3.2.2). The beginning and ending file sizes were almost identical and it took about 3 hours to do the conversion. After consulting with the developer, the lightbulb finally went on!!! mp4tools is not meant to replace HB. It is actually for just changing the container on a file already using h.264 codec (we knew that already, right?) or (and here is my divine revelation) changing the container on an mpeg2 while transcoding the mpeg2 to h.264 but with no compression. Same bitrate (thus file size) on original and transcoded file. Duh!!!

I have no idea about the perceived quality difference going from mpeg2 to h.264 but I would think they would be minimal since no compression is occurring. Right?

Of course, the larger file size might also not give you any better file size than an a HB compressed file.

[iHailCarlo]

Handbrake and iFlicks is all anyone needs.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by iHailCarlo

Handbrake and iFlicks is all anyone needs.

Why do you think that?

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by iHailCarlo

Handbrake and iFlicks is all anyone needs.

Why stick with iFlicks when there're much better (faster) alternatives around, even for free?

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by mic j

By the way, I converted an mkv (mpeg2) to mp4 (h.264) the other day using the new version of mp4tools (3.2.2). The beginning and ending file sizes were almost identical and it took about 3 hours to do the conversion. After consulting with the developer, the lightbulb finally went on!!! mp4tools is not meant to replace HB. It is actually for just changing the container on a file already using h.264 codec (we knew that already, right?) or (and here is my divine revelation) changing the container on an mpeg2 while transcoding the mpeg2 to h.264 but with no compression. Same bitrate (thus file size) on original and transcoded file. Duh!!!

I have no idea about the perceived quality difference going from mpeg2 to h.264 but I would think they would be minimal since no compression is occurring. Right?

Of course, the larger file size might also not give you any better file size than an a HB compressed file.

MP4Tools always defaults to using exactly the same bitrate as the input video, even when it's absolutely not necessary. (For example, with MPEG-2 -> H.264 conversion, where you can safely use half a target bitrate.) This is why it produces that big files.

The solution is simply overriding its default when converting (remuxing) MPEG2 MKV's like the one at https://dl.dropbox.com/u/13100693/ht...s-ads-orig.mkv . With that video, the original bitrate is 4.3Mbps. Using 1.5 MBps target bitrate is just fine.

[iHailCarlo]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

Why stick with iFlicks when there're much better (faster) alternatives around, even for free?

Can you tell me about some free ones that are good? The ones I have used like MetaZ and the like all suck and didnt give me what I wanted. iFlicks has been real easy to use and tags everything I throw into it and then moves it to iTunes. Let me know.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by iHailCarlo

Can you tell me about some free ones that are good? The ones I have used like MetaZ and the like all suck and didnt give me what I wanted. iFlicks has been real easy to use and tags everything I throw into it and then moves it to iTunes. Let me know.

For example, the free Subler. I've quickly written a full tutorial to show how easy it is:

TUTORIAL: automatically adding video metadata to your videos using the excellent, free(!) Subler

In my Video Metadata bible & Roundup, I've already mentioned Subler is capable of manually editing / adding video metadata. After having been asked (thread with numerous, advice-packed posts from me) about doing the same with Subler, I've decided to publish a writeup on doing the same automatically. After all, online video metadata libraries like themoviedb.org have excellent metadata for a lot of flicks.

O.K., let's see how all this is done with Subler, the absolutely stunning, excellent, fastest (see my latest benchmarks HERE, also discussed in THIS thread - see mic_j's starting post) video remuxer and (audio) converter tool around.

1, load the MP4 / M4V / MOV video file you need to add metadata to via Cmd + O or File > Open. For this tutorial, I've used a remuxed (actually, via HandBrake, entirely re-converted) version of the standardized Monsters, Inc. test video slice available HERE.

You'll see something like this:



(As with all the other screenshots in this article, click for the much bigger and better-quality, original image.)
(In this case, the screenshot shows the video has, in addition to a video and a subtitle track, two audio tracks – an AC3 and an AAC one – and has been created by HandBrake.)

Now, go to File > Import > Search metadata online. Subler will try to make a guess, based on the filename, on the movie contained in the file. In this case, as the video file was called “Monsters.m4v”, it lists everything containing “Monsters”. The third item in the list (you can quickly click it), shown in the screenshot below, contains Monsters, Inc. - the one we're looking for:




Now, just click “Add” in the bottom right corner. You'll be taken to the artwork addition dialog:



After selecting the image you'd like to use as an artwork, just click “Set as Artwork” in the bottom right corner.

After this, you're done. You're returned to the track list, where the (by default, selected) “Metadata” tab at the bottom shows the just-added metadata:



(compare this screenshot to the first one, which only has the “Encoding Tool” value in it.)

After this, just press Cmd + S (or select File > Save) to save the new metadata to the file. The just-saved file will contain metadata compatible with iTunes. An iTunes screenshot (the stock iOS “Videos” app, after synchronizing the video to your iDevice, will also display the metadata):


Doing the same in batch mode

If you don't mind false hits (adding the metadata of the wrong movie) or is absolutely sure your filenames have all the necessary info to properly identify the movie, you can also use Subler's automatic (batch) queue mode.

To use it, go to Window > Show Queue. You'll see the following (screenshot taken after clicking the down arrow in the bottom right, annotated in the screenshot below, to show the checkboxes at the bottom):



The “Fetch metadata” will be the only checkbox that is checked by default. Should you want to make your files streamable (see THIS for more info on when it's needed), you might also want to check the “Optimize” checkbox on the left.

Now, drag-and-drop all the files you'd like to convert in the upper pane of the same window. In the following screenshot, two such files are shown: “harry potter.mkv” and “Monsters Inc.mkv”. Note that I've deliberately chosen an ambiguous name for the former video so that I can test whether the medatata selector screen / list is shown with titles not properly recognizable. You should always properly name your files (the entire title etc.) so that the right metadata is inserted into it. The second video is properly named and will be correctly tagged.

After this, click the “Start” button in the lower right corner and the videos are tagged (and, if they're MKV's like in this example, also remuxed to M4V's.).



Then, the videos will be re-saved, with metadata in them, in this case (see the “Default location” drop-down list at the bottom right) in the source video directory.

[dynaflash]

Nice tutorial, I might add that instead of using the file menu in subler to get the metadata you can just click on the Search icon in the upper right. Does the same thing.

[thegluchow]

Hi,
Amateur question I am sure.
I'm using ivi and sometimes iFlicks (for the 640 AC3) to convert from MKV to m4v to use on my atv's.
I also take these MKV's and just convert them to mp4 for use on the PS3. However, when I use mp4tools, it always gives me a m4v output, not a mp4 (I'm usually using pass-through for video and ac3 640 kb/s for audio). (no additional 2-channel added).
I then have to go to subler and rerun it as a 'movie' to get the mp4 extension (to which the PS3 will read off of my NAS (DNS-325)).
Am i missing something here completely? I tried just changing the extension on the m4v to mp4 and the PS3 won't read it, nor read m4v as well.
Thanks for any help on this.

[pmcdunnough]

Originally Posted by thegluchow

Hi,
Amateur question I am sure.
I'm using ivi and sometimes iFlicks (for the 640 AC3) to convert from MKV to m4v to use on my atv's.
I also take these MKV's and just convert them to mp4 for use on the PS3. However, when I use mp4tools, it always gives me a m4v output, not a mp4 (I'm usually using pass-through for video and ac3 640 kb/s for audio). (no additional 2-channel added).
I then have to go to subler and rerun it as a 'movie' to get the mp4 extension (to which the PS3 will read off of my NAS (DNS-325)).
Am i missing something here completely? I tried just changing the extension on the m4v to mp4 and the PS3 won't read it, nor read m4v as well.
Thanks for any help on this.

You only need to do this once. Use iFlicks, iVI or Subler to get your m4v ( same thing as an mp4 - just rename if the PS3 wants that) for the ATV. The same files will work for both devices. You can keep an mp4 folder of files. When adding to iTunes don't copy them to the iTunes folder.

Philip

[pmcdunnough]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

Why stick with iFlicks when there're much better (faster) alternatives around, even for free?

Well at some point iFlicks will have watched folders built in. For now you can make it work, but it's a bit of a pain. That is a big reason for using iVI or iFlicks. You can automate everything. Also, iFlicks has the neat ability to take xvid files and turn them into mp4 iTunes files with no reencoding of the video stream. It works remarkably well.

The faster claims that you have made are for very specific files. A simple mkv file with one video and one AC3 audio stream will remux in iVI and especially iFlicks almost as fast as with the excellent free Subler (with no automation capabilities). Your data is interesting but unless you have subs, multiple audio and such the lack of automation with Subler is a feature that many would miss. Moreover, iVI is pretty darned simple to use.

Philip

[hagar]

I can't believe VideoDrive has not been mentioned earlier. It's a great tool for batch processing. It also uses HandBrake (the newest engine) for conversions, so it combines the speed and efficiency of HandBrake with the possibility to automatically watch new files in a folder, download metadata and hand them over to iTunes.

As soon as I download or copy a new video, VideoDrive detects it, does its thing and next I have a compatible video in iTunes. No fuss. I'm very happy with it. I also own iFlicks, but VideoDrive wins hands down with the automatic folder watching and batch processing features. I'm thinking of buying a Mac mini as a media server, and this tool would be ideal as you can set and forget it. You can download it at their site: www.aroona.net.

Some negative points: finding metadata sometimes misidentifies a file and while conversions are very fast, finding the metadata can be a bit slow.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by hagar

I can't believe VideoDrive has not been mentioned earlier. It's a great tool for batch processing. It also uses HandBrake (the newest engine) for conversions, so it combines the speed and efficiency of HandBrake with the possibility to automatically watch new files in a folder, download metadata and hand them over to iTunes.

As soon as I download or copy a new video, VideoDrive detects it, does its thing and next I have a compatible video in iTunes. No fuss. I'm very happy with it. I also own iFlicks, but VideoDrive wins hands down with the automatic folder watching and batch processing features. I'm thinking of buying a Mac mini as a media server, and this tool would be ideal as you can set and forget it. You can download it at their site: www.aroona.net.

Some negative points: finding metadata sometimes misidentifies a file and while conversions are very fast, finding the metadata can be a bit slow.

Thanks for the heads-up; will definitely test and review it.

[pmcdunnough]

VideoDrive is very nice. Have used it for ages. However, they hadn't implemented remuxing and so I switched to iVi and iFlicks. There was talk of them supporting remuxing so perhaps it's now there?

philip