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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:41 PM   #51
HMI
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
This is a real problem that the U.S. computer industry has. There are a LOT of really smart, well-educated people all over the planet and only so many immigration slots into the US each year. There are tons of stories of U.S. companies hiring foreigners they need for a short time, and then watching as they're forced to go home where they, of course, start a competing company. So they now have a competitor instead of an employee, and there's nothing they can do about it.

The US governments knows this is a problem, immigration services has been working with silicon valley entrepreneurs for the last year to figure out ways to help avoid these problems. But as civil servants, the best they can do is make minor adjustments, only Congress can make big changes to immigration law.

Given all this, what Apple is doing makes perfect sense. This really isn't a money-saving thing like the factories are. Rather, it's a way to tap into talent that they have no way of bringing to California.
For a long time, American Universities have been giving enrollment priority to foreign students, whom they could charge much more money than American Students. After years of giving this preferential treatment to foreigners, they have created a larger gap in knowledge, skills, and talent between foreign and American graduates, and so American companies feel compelled to hire some of the more knowledgeable, skilled, and talented foreigners.

It's really another demonstration how short-term greed has sown long-term deficits in our corporate and education futures.

This new R&D facility might be good for Apple, but I don't yet see this as being any good for Americans.

We need to stop trying to be "educators of the world", and start educating ourselves. We need to give enrollment priority back to Americans, and hope that we can rebuild what we have lost.

It is not our responsibility to educate the world. Most of them are fine doing that on their own, without us, anyway.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:02 AM   #52
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It is not American's responsibility to police the world. Most of them are fine doing that on their own, without US, anyway.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:58 AM   #53
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I think they would pay less tax spending their overseas monies ... overseas.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:05 AM   #54
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Not related to the content, but the pic is def outdated.

now:
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 10:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by WardC View Post
I miss the pride in owning a USA-built Apple Computer.

Apple built all their computers in Fremont, California for many years, and employed US workers. Now a Foxconn factory in a foreign land employs non-US workers who earn menial wages and work 17 hours a day sometimes to build hardware for a company that has turned into a money-focused and money-driven machine.

Just my take.
You shouldn't take pride in electronics you own.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 10:39 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by HMI View Post
For a long time, American Universities have been giving enrollment priority to foreign students, whom they could charge much more money than American Students. After years of giving this preferential treatment to foreigners,
First, charging way more money is not preferential treatment.

But that nitpicking aside, top tier institutions spend a lot of effort to attract the very best students. While this is starting to improve, in technical graduate programs, particularly in engineering, it is increasingly rare to find a lot of Americans in that top echelon.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 10:47 AM   #57
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Sorry, Apple, but this is a bad plan. Keep the R&D in one location. Build products in the local market (I believe that means you need to increase build production in the US, but that's another topic). It makes sense logistically, from a design perspective; and employs people in local markets.

Besides, can you imagine the leaks coming out of China once R&D moves there as well???

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Last edited by dernhelm; Jan 16, 2013 at 10:48 AM. Reason: redundant gramar
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 11:31 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by conancn View Post
Not related to the content, but the pic is def outdated.

now:
China is now simply a big cesspool where corporations go to get cheap labor, to dodge taxes and to not be bothered by expensive environmental controls.

There are lots of Chinese who do not like this situation and have been asking for reforms, but of course they can only go so far before The Party shuts them down, violently if necessary.

What could change things is for it to be made illegal to break US laws by simply crossing the border. After all, that pollution doesn't just magically stay inside the Chines borders (itself an issue). It comes right back at us.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 11:50 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by pacalis View Post
First, charging way more money is not preferential treatment.

But that nitpicking aside, top tier institutions spend a lot of effort to attract the very best students. While this is starting to improve, in technical graduate programs, particularly in engineering, it is increasingly rare to find a lot of Americans in that top echelon.
I said enrollment priority, not preferential treatment.
If they can choose between charging $100 or $200 per seat, they have more motivation and incentive to charge the $200 per seat each time, leaving fewer seats available for American students.

In the end, university systems are profit generating businesses which are encouraged to follow the dollars, and they have no problem selling out American students and overcharging everyone in the pursuit of profit and "academic excellence."

If they have more money, they can buy more equipment and facilities and better teachers, conduct more research, and publish more prestigious books, all of which market themselves as "academic excellence," and have nothing to do with helping as many American students as possible become successful contributors to their field within the US. The universities sold out their students for their own personal gain.

Yes, foreign students paid too much for American educations. So did American students! The whole system is broken.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:18 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by HMI View Post
I said enrollment priority, not preferential treatment.
If they can choose between charging $100 or $200 per seat, they have more motivation and incentive to charge the $200 per seat each time, leaving fewer seats available for American students.

In the end, university systems are profit generating businesses which are encouraged to follow the dollars, and they have no problem selling out American students and overcharging everyone in the pursuit of profit and "academic excellence."
I agree that many schools follow dollars, except that for most research universities the dollars they follow are very, very big on the research side. You can not buy your way into an MIT or Harvard and the like, and for those schools their undergrad programs are very small. So the situation you describe simply isn't happening in the top tier.

These schools however, do have a lot of foreign graduate students, most of whom are fully supported by the institutional endowments or US research grants. And increasingly they are leaving the US to better foreign opportunities.

The problem is complex, but I don't see your position as accurately describing premium Universities or top talent. However, I do agree that the system is broken. The US isn't able to capture these investments.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 03:46 AM   #61
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Apple headquarters may still be in America, but it's more an international company now. It's more about the money than any true corporate ideology.

Any actions of such a nature are simply to keep up customer loyalty and keep the illusion in Americans hearts that they're buying American products.

Unfortunately for America in recent years it's international reputation has been driven further and further into the dirt, while at the same time China has been improving at amazing speeds.

Maybe the Age of America is up, all great empires eventually crumble.

While life in America became more and more easy, the need for people to compete and fight for a better life slowly vanished as things became too easy. Once you stop improving, you just start slowly falling backwards.

China has a crazy population with killer competition, some of the types of things I've seen these students studying in Chinese universities I'd never even encountered in my western education. Whilst entrepreneurial ambitions may be lacking, never underestimate the knowledge and abilities of many of Chinese.

In recent years more International Chinese have been returning to China than ever before, first tier cities are becoming very impressive, while second and third tier cities are also showing rapid development.

There used to be great incentives for scientists and those of great ability to immigrate to America, but those days seem to be over. Possibly from too much external investment (war), and too little internal investment (education, development, and infrastructure).

There are many many reasons for Apple to work hard at penetrating into China and try to gain more product loyalty. There is a huge potential customer base, a great, skillful, knowledgeable and cheaper (easier to please) employee base and a very bright and brighter everyday future in China.

Also what a better place to learn about consumer needs in China, than in China? Google failed to understand Chinese culture and Chinese needs, and we all know how Google gave up in China, claiming their exit on "ethical reasons" while they had very little market penetration due to their inability to adapt to Chinese needs.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:35 AM   #62
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Doubling down on security != R&D in China.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:07 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by HMI View Post
For a long time, American Universities have been giving enrollment priority to foreign students, whom they could charge much more money than American Students.

It is not our responsibility to educate the world. Most of them are fine doing that on their own, without us, anyway.
The foreign students basically subsidize the programs for Americans. Not to mention, if American universities were to stop accepting foreign students, I doubt there would be enough qualified American students to fill the spots.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 12:56 AM   #64
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it's a data center not a r&d center..
none of you ever read the content of that article before reply or u think iphone was developed in a data center?
with such a data center what chinese will be benefited from is the faster downloading apps, nothing more! ok i'm one of them and disappointed
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 11:49 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by coolspot18 View Post
The foreign students basically subsidize the programs for Americans. Not to mention, if American universities were to stop accepting foreign students, I doubt there would be enough qualified American students to fill the spots.
There are a lot of smart and qualified young American students who are forced to go to less prestigious, non-ivy league schools because they can't afford the tuition, even with their grants and scholarships, and they choose not to bury themselves in a lifetime of unrecoverable debt. I know some of them personally.

There would be plenty of qualified American students to fill those spots. The only reason they don't already have those spots is because of the universities' preferential enrollment priorities and income incentives I mentioned earlier.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 12:18 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
Well this just shows that declining stocks are not indicative of a company losing revenue.
I could've told you that. A company's stock isn't an indication of how well it's doing, rather how investors feel about the company.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 03:00 PM   #67
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I could've told you that. A company's stock isn't an indication of how well it's doing, rather how investors feel about the company.
You could've told me that?? What? And why are you reiterating exactly what I just said?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:33 PM   #68
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Have you ever noticed how some people just get...you know...overly defensive and snarky over not much in particular around here?

I didn't repeat exactly what you said. I did expand upon your basic line of thought by just a little bit.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:57 AM   #69
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Industrial Espionage in China

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Originally Posted by gkarris View Post
That's why China instead of South Korea...

Looked what happened to VW....If they are doing all the copying now...brand names, fake products..what more that they are going to bring the tech right infront of the the dragons den....
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