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Old Jan 19, 2013, 03:57 AM   #76
Platskies
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Originally Posted by Eithanius View Post
The point of social media integration is this, we as users can ignore, BUT it is not something that the entire OS can ignore altogether. Whatever ****** social media crap they built it in - Facebook, iCloud, Twitter etc, they introduced more processes into the OS that are bloating and hogging resources, whether or not you use them...

<snip>
Most processes do go away when their associated services aren't in use. When I logged out of Game Center, gamed went away next login. I disabled all of my iCloud-enabled services, and ubd went away next login - until I ran an iCloud-enabled app (such as TextEdit). However, it did disappear after a few minutes after that.

Yes, what I described is a minor inefficiency, but this won't affect the performance of your system at a practical level. There's less point "optimising" the OS nowadays, as computers have become very performant.

Also, apps that are using new 10.7 and 10.8 technologies are going to start spinning up more processes, and for good reason. Apple in 10.7 introduced a robust mechanism called XPC Services for separating an app's core privileges (like computation, disk I/O and network) into discrete processes. This has two improvements - applications can more effectively be sandboxed (to 'harden' the OS), and applications will have less tendency to crash from programming errors. When these external processes have finished their jobs, xpcd will go ahead and shut them down.

If you really care about what processes you have running so much, you could say Snow Leopard is "bloated" as well. For example "com.apple.dock.extra" provides the mechanism for apps to customise their dock tile even when they aren't running. Based on your logic you might not need that if you're certain you have no apps that have that behaviour. However, I honestly don't see any reason to go to this trouble as they're very light on memory, and almost always sit at 0% of CPU usage. And plus you might break functionality in any future apps you install, without being aware of it at all.

If you're having performance issues with 10.8, it will likely improve in a future update. This has always been the trend.

Last edited by Platskies; Jan 19, 2013 at 06:02 AM.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 06:49 AM   #77
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best ever release

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Originally Posted by vjaaan View Post
I am hearing people regretting upgrading to Mountain Lion and wonder if those bugs have been fixed.

Are there still problems that are common?
No regrets: top stuff!

Not common, but those who do have problems make an inordinate amount of noise...
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 07:12 AM   #78
ZipZap
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Best Operating systems I've ever used.
I'm on mac since Leopard and windows since forever.
While I do like my mac, the Mac OS is no where near the best OS period.

Sorry but Windows is superior. And with all the Mac OS issues over the last year+... Windows even more so.

Yes, there are features that make Mac OS stand out, but there are missing ones that make me scratch my head.

What ends up making Mac tolerable are the programs and utilities you can buy for Mac OS...
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 02:48 PM   #79
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Hey guys how is mountain lion compared to lion regarding the battery time?

Ive read mixed opinions so far about this issue.

Battery is really important to me and now I dont know if I should upgrade to Mtn Lion or not.

Any insights?
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 05:41 PM   #80
WSR
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I'm still sticking with Snow Leopard.

My main issues are:
1. The loss of grid based Spaces.
2. Lion's and ML's Full-Screen mode which usually makes multiple monitors nearly useless.
3. Limited control over Resume, Versions and AutoSave.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 04:43 PM   #81
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I'm still sticking with Snow Leopard.

My main issues are:
1. The loss of grid based Spaces.
I don't miss it since I never used that many spaces, but I agree it should still be an option. For just a few spaces, the combined expose and spaces in Mission Control is preferable to me since I can use one hot spot for both.

Quote:
2. Lion's and ML's Full-Screen mode which usually makes multiple monitors nearly useless.
I agree they need to fix that problem (and a solution for the top screen menu and dock), but as far as I know, full screen mode (where used) in Snow Leopard has the same problem. In other words, if you don't use full screen mode while using two monitors, it won't happen. I fail to see an advantage in Snow Leopard when it has the same issues. It simply doesn't have a convenient button to go to full screen (lots of somewhat non-standard keyboard controls and menu selections and it STILL robs the 2nd monitor for things like iTunes).

Quote:
3. Limited control over Resume, Versions and AutoSave.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Could you give more detail? Are you referring to the App Store programs? The inability to load or find older versions is one of my biggest complaints about the App Store in general (for iOS or otherwise), particularly if you have older hardware that needs an older version. Of course, the key here is to no support the App Store when possible to avoid it. The last thing we want to see if Apple make it mandatory for OSX at some point in the future. Can you imagine having to jailbreak OSX proper? I'd abandon the platform at that point. I don't want Apple deciding what I can and cannot run on my computer. I barely tolerate it on iOS and mostly because I use it more for the iPod than for Apps and I do need Apple' "Remote" to control my AppleTVs, etc. since I decided to go with Apple for the whole house system long before iOS came out.

Last edited by MagnusVonMagnum; Jan 20, 2013 at 04:50 PM.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:13 PM   #82
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While I do like my mac, the Mac OS is no where near the best OS period.

Sorry but Windows is superior. And with all the Mac OS issues over the last year+... Windows even more so.

Yes, there are features that make Mac OS stand out, but there are missing ones that make me scratch my head.

What ends up making Mac tolerable are the programs and utilities you can buy for Mac OS...
Just curious, but why is windows superior?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 06:41 PM   #83
WSR
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I agree they need to fix that problem (and a solution for the top screen menu and dock), but as far as I know, full screen mode (where used) in Snow Leopard has the same problem. In other words, if you don't use full screen mode while using two monitors, it won't happen. I fail to see an advantage in Snow Leopard when it has the same issues. It simply doesn't have a convenient button to go to full screen (lots of somewhat non-standard keyboard controls and menu selections and it STILL robs the 2nd monitor for things like iTunes).
Though SL didn't have an official Full-Screen mode, virtually all apps that had a Full-Screen mode just went Full-Screen in the current Space leaving the Desktop underneath it. This way I could watch a video in Full-Screen mode on 1 Monitor while continuing to work in the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Could you give more detail? Are you referring to the App Store programs? The inability to load or find older versions is one of my biggest complaints about the App Store in general (for iOS or otherwise), particularly if you have older hardware that needs an older version. Of course, the key here is to no support the App Store when possible to avoid it. The last thing we want to see if Apple make it mandatory for OSX at some point in the future. Can you imagine having to jailbreak OSX proper? I'd abandon the platform at that point. I don't want Apple deciding what I can and cannot run on my computer. I barely tolerate it on iOS and mostly because I use it more for the iPod than for Apps and I do need Apple' "Remote" to control my AppleTVs, etc. since I decided to go with Apple for the whole house system long before iOS came out.
No I'm just talking about giving us more control over Lion's and ML's features. For example, I don't want every little typo to be stored by versions. Maybe even the ability to turn off versions. Also, I'm not sure if resume can be turned off yet. I know that Apple has returned some of the features from SL, though some like Save As are a bit hidden.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:41 AM   #84
ZipZap
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Originally Posted by cmChimera View Post
Just curious, but why is windows superior?
Not to be argumentative but why isn't it?
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:33 AM   #85
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Not to be argumentative but why isn't it?
I was asking for your personal opinion. I have multiple reasons as to why I think OS X is better, but I'm not asking you to debate me on my reasoning.

Last edited by cmChimera; Jan 21, 2013 at 03:04 PM.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:50 PM   #86
Risco
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This is my first ever Apple Mac so I do not know any different. I have 30 years of Windows experience and for me I found as a system it is far superior just for the small fact I don't ba e a registry to deal with. I am a learn by my mistake person so of course I ha e broken my install numerous times but that is because I am trying to find out what I can cannot do, not because it is unstable.

What is an issue for me is annoying bugs. Things such as settings needed to be launched twice for it to launch such as setting desktop background. Also slow shutdown, way too slow.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:07 AM   #87
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While I do like my mac, the Mac OS is no where near the best OS period.

Sorry but Windows is superior. And with all the Mac OS issues over the last year+... Windows even more so.

Yes, there are features that make Mac OS stand out, but there are missing ones that make me scratch my head.

What ends up making Mac tolerable are the programs and utilities you can buy for Mac OS...
Late reply but when you buy a mac you get more features out of the box. In windows every OEM will install junk image before you buy it and give it to you with tons of advertise software that you don't even need.
More over even Windows 8 did not improve that much for laptop and desktop users (touch is something different but I don't even need it).
Changes for Desktop / Laptop users without Touch :
-Improved task manager
-Improved file copy
-ISO is now built into the system
-Copy/Move is more usable (still total commander is way better)
-Better Boot time (will only feel it if you are non ssd user)
-No Aero
-Taskbar in multiple screens

I won't even count the metro/modern UI because its simply not good. the search is more complicated than before and there is no software as Alfred in windows (Launchy and others are not enough).

anyway like i said I'm using windows since the start but with mac i feel more complete. the terminal is more superior than any powershell and there is no complexity to do stuff.
The only problem with mac is full screen apps on extended mode.

Too bad mac is not for everyone - the people who look for cheap laptop can't buy it.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:19 AM   #88
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Late reply.........
Too bad mac is not for everyone - the people who look for cheap laptop can't buy it.
Too bad (and Win) fanboys have to garbage up every thread. There are plenty of threads comparing Apple with Microsoft and OSX with Win 7/8, this one is about Mountain Lion.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:26 PM   #89
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Too bad (and Win) fanboys have to garbage up every thread. There are plenty of threads comparing Apple with Microsoft and OSX with Win 7/8, this one is about Mountain Lion.
Isn't that what Mountain Lion is all about...?

First it was the iPhone with the iOS, then iPad... and now the iOSification of Mac OS X in the form of Mountain Lion... Flocks of Windows users are hopping on the bandwagon migrating en masse to the Mac platform because Apple have been integrating all these Windows-esque features onto Lion and Mountain Lion. All-side windows resizing, full-screen crap, useless windows animations, social media integration that rips off your privacy...

Who wouldn't be tempted to compare...?

What's next...? Viruses and malwares...? I see it coming...

I missed the old Apple and its exclusivity... It's a good thing SJ got booted out of Apple for the second time... this time straight into his grave...
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:27 PM   #90
MagnusVonMagnum
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I'm actually wishing they'd integrate iOS MORE in the sense that I'd like to be able to run some iOS Apps in OSX (games come to mind given OSX's lack of them and the plethora of them in iOS by comparison). I don't want the interface in OSX...well at least not forced. I don't care about Launchpad being there, but they day they try to replace the dock or something with it is the day I leave OSX for good. As it is, Launchpad is useless. There should be an iTunes configuration panel to set up what you want to appear on it and in what order. They make it very obtuse to use and therefore it's mostly useless.

I've just been reading about how many Intel Macs Mountain Lion left behind, though and I'm fairly astounded. Instead of just offering an option to downgrade eye candy on older machines and let the user know they can't use Airplay Mirror, they just dump them altogether. The problem there is software often (less so with Snow Leopard I think given how many still use it; Lion will probably die faster) starts drying up relatively quickly with Macs compared to Windows and thus you end up with a largely useless computer in time. Time to crack out Linux at that point, I guess or use old software (sometimes dangerous with security holes present that aren't patched).

But operationally, I think I now prefer Mountain Lion to Snow Leopard and I'm about to install it on my late 2008 Macbook Pro (with a CCC backup first in case there are issues like performance or heat as some threads have suggested, at least with early Mountain Lion). I've found alternatives or gotten newer versions for the last of my PPC software, so I think that issue is finally behind me (plus my PowerMac is more or less now retired with my new 2012 Mac Mini i7 Quad Server replacing it). My Netbook Hackintosh will have to remain with Snow Leopard since it's 32-bit, though. I may actually end up putting Linux or (gasp) Windows back on it if I don't get rid of it for awhile. But Snow Leopard support is still good at the moment. It's mostly used for travel where I don't want to worry about a safe or whatever for an expensive MBP, whereas the Netbook used is worth like $100 or less.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:43 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I'm actually wishing they'd integrate iOS MORE in the sense that I'd like to be able to run some iOS Apps in OSX (games come to mind given OSX's lack of them and the plethora of them in iOS by comparison). I don't want the interface in OSX...well at least not forced. I don't care about Launchpad being there, but they day they try to replace the dock or something with it is the day I leave OSX for good. As it is, Launchpad is useless. There should be an iTunes configuration panel to set up what you want to appear on it and in what order. They make it very obtuse to use and therefore it's mostly useless.
I totally agree. Launchpad is useless, and iTunes needs to be more configurable. That being said, I welcome the iOS inspirations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
I've just been reading about how many Intel Macs Mountain Lion left behind, though and I'm fairly astounded. Instead of just offering an option to downgrade eye candy on older machines and let the user know they can't use Airplay Mirror, they just dump them altogether. The problem there is software often (less so with Snow Leopard I think given how many still use it; Lion will probably die faster) starts drying up relatively quickly with Macs compared to Windows and thus you end up with a largely useless computer in time. Time to crack out Linux at that point, I guess or use old software (sometimes dangerous with security holes present that aren't patched).
The only intel macs they left behind were 32-bit only. Mountain Lion has finally finished OSX's transition to being a completely and only 64-bit OS. Just like Tiger was PowerPC only, Leopard was dual x86 and PowerPC, and Snow Leopard was a completely and only x86 OS, this same transition happened again to x64 CPUs. While Snow Leopard was later (starting with 10.6.3 I think) upgraded to support x64 processors, the old x86 remnants had to go eventually. I am willing to wager that removing the redundant x86 code is partly responsible for why ML seems snappier than Lion. My point is, they didn't dump those older intel Macs out of spite or malice, it's all part of progress. The real question is, why did they keep selling 32-bit intel CPUs in their computers for so long after intel had released updated 64-bit alternatives? Apple kept selling Core Duo for a while after Core 2 Duo came out, for no real reason.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 06:27 PM   #92
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Can anyone tell me why Mail app in ML is so screwed up when it comes to exchange servers? I have dozens of emails that I cannot delete and get the error message "An error occurred while moving messages to mailbox “Trash — XXX Exchange”.

And while we're on it, why does Mail sometimes lose all Exchange emails? I have to quit then relaunch Mail and it usually (but not always) finds them again.

Yes, I've repaired permissions - several times. It occurs on all three of my Macs that connect to Exchange servers.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:42 PM   #93
pcmxa
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Originally Posted by WSR View Post
I'm still sticking with Snow Leopard.

My main issues are:
1. The loss of grid based Spaces.
2. Lion's and ML's Full-Screen mode which usually makes multiple monitors nearly useless.
3. Limited control over Resume, Versions and AutoSave.
I also miss a number of things about spaces and expose from Snow Leopard, and really wish Apple would improve multi monitor support, but have found ways to almost get back to where I feel comfortable. I am running three monitors, one a 47 incher. Needless to say I don't use full screen for any app, though at least they wil go full screen to whichever screen they were launched from, but it is a ridiculous amount of linen to be looking at. Theoretically, I understand, applications could make far better use of full screen than they do using panels that could be placed on the other monitors. For example, Photoshop could panelize there palettes so that I could have an image monitor, and a tool/palette monitor, which would be a huge improvement, but given that even Apple's apps don't seem to take advantage of this (I can't move a compose window to a different window in Mail), I don't hold out much hope for other apps to be able to use ful screen effectively anytime soon.

Anyway, how I deal with spaces/fullscreen is by using the options (right clicking on the dock icon) to set the monitor space I always want an application to appear. I have a email, web, pages space, and then spaces for Photoshop, Lightroom, Premier, and After Effects with each of the adobe products work space being set up across the monitors. This works well and is remembered between launches, but is less efficient to navigate around than the old spaces (you have to flick four fingers a bunch of times often to get to where you want to go (I don't use the shortcuts since for whatever reason I can't place the number horizontally in my head the same way I could with a grid so I always get confused between desktop 5 and desktop 6) as opposed to the old grid. But it is good enough.

What I would like is an all app expose that shows me windows in a single space of al open windows/applications in all spaces.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:48 AM   #94
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Can anyone tell me why Mail app in ML is so screwed up when it comes to exchange servers? I have dozens of emails that I cannot delete and get the error message "An error occurred while moving messages to mailbox “Trash — XXX Exchange”.

And while we're on it, why does Mail sometimes lose all Exchange emails? I have to quit then relaunch Mail and it usually (but not always) finds them again.

Yes, I've repaired permissions - several times. It occurs on all three of my Macs that connect to Exchange servers.
I'm using the Mail app with an MS 2010 exchange server over VPN and I don't recognize any of your issues, so I wouldn't say it is totally screwed up. Not sure why you have such issue with this combo (perhaps the issue is your exchange server ???).
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:20 AM   #95
Platskies
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Isn't that what Mountain Lion is all about...?

First it was the iPhone with the iOS, then iPad... and now the iOSification of Mac OS X in the form of Mountain Lion... Flocks of Windows users are hopping on the bandwagon migrating en masse to the Mac platform because Apple have been integrating all these Windows-esque features onto Lion and Mountain Lion. All-side windows resizing, full-screen crap, useless windows animations, social media integration that rips off your privacy...

<snip>
I bet they made windows resizable by all corners to improve the overall aesthetics of the window (i.e. preventing showing that little control in the bottom-right).

Pre-Windows 8 doesn't have a true distraction-free full-screen mode. The best you can do is maximize the window, but that will still show the title bar. On 10.8, only the window's inner content takes up the entire screen.

Window animations that are useless? What about those animated open/save sheets then?

Quote:
What's next...? Viruses and malwares...? I see it coming...
How about Gatekeeper and App Sandboxing? They're moves to improve security (and also without applying "the iOS effect" - Sandboxing on the Mac is much broader compared to that on iOS).

Last edited by Platskies; Jan 23, 2013 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Formatting
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:17 PM   #96
MagnusVonMagnum
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The only intel macs they left behind were 32-bit only.
Sorry, but that is not the case. All Intel Core2Duo Macs that had Intel Integrated GPUs (i.e. all non-pro Macbooks from mid-2008 and earlier) were also left high and dry. They have the same CPU as my 15" Macbook Pro from 2008, but lack the Nvidia discrete GPU.

Quote:
Mountain Lion has finally finished OSX's transition to being a completely and only 64-bit OS.
Sorry once again, but that's simply not correct. 32-bit software and preference panes still work fine in Mountain Lion. The core and general OS items are 64-bit only now, but it's not a 64-bit only OS and there's nothing wrong with that given 64-bit has limited benefit with most programs that don't need giant chunks of memory.

Quote:
My point is, they didn't dump those older intel Macs out of spite or malice, it's all part of progress. The real question is, why did they keep selling 32-bit intel CPUs in their computers for so long after intel had released updated 64-bit alternatives? Apple kept selling Core Duo for a while after Core 2 Duo came out, for no real reason.
Again, plenty of 64-bit capable machines got the shaft because of the GPU, not the CPU. And those were the same machines that Apple didn't want to bother offering discrete GPUs. If you wanted a 13" screen Macbook in early 2008, you had no choice. They didn't offer a discrete GPU model. Non-gamers probably figured it just didn't matter, but now they're screwed. OTOH, I think it might be possible to fool OSX ML into installing on such models if the GPU check can be bypassed. The problem is certain eye-candy things will cause Mountain Lion to be slower on them and that is pure laziness on Apple's part. They don't have to force eye-candy on users. They could have an option to turn rotating desktops and what not OFF since they serve no functional purpose what-so-ever, but they don't. If Linux can manage to be configurable, why can't OSX? You can't say it' because Apple doesn't have the resources. If they don't have them, no one does given how much money Apple has on-hand and pulls in these past several years.

I know in Leopard that Tiger Kexts for unsupported graphics cards could be moved over and Leopard would be so much faster on such Macs. I don't doubt something similar could be done for the Macbooks in question. What I question is Apple's motive in such things. One only need look at the short life-spans of iOS updates for given hardware to see they don't care about the user, just making more sales.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:40 PM   #97
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I was asking for your personal opinion. I have multiple reasons as to why I think OS X is better, but I'm not asking you to debate me on my reasoning.
vise versa.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:20 AM   #98
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Can anyone tell me why Mail app in ML is so screwed up when it comes to exchange servers? I have dozens of emails that I cannot delete and get the error message "An error occurred while moving messages to mailbox “Trash — XXX Exchange”.

And while we're on it, why does Mail sometimes lose all Exchange emails? I have to quit then relaunch Mail and it usually (but not always) finds them again.

Yes, I've repaired permissions - several times. It occurs on all three of my Macs that connect to Exchange servers.
What version of Exchange? I use to have issues with exchange 2003, but since moving to exchange 2010 I have had zero issues.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:11 AM   #99
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vise versa.
Am I speaking to children?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 09:37 AM   #100
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Am I speaking to children?
Vice versa?
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