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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:21 AM   #76
InfernoShade
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Always So Negative. Why?

Wow, all the negativity never stops does it.

First up, I'm not interested in this movie as I'm not a fan of Ashton Kutcher. But what gets me is all the negativity, and the imaginary statements like Steve Jobs was wrong more than he was right silliness. Even sillier is to put a percentage on it. 50%, really? Lets just pull numbers out of the air.

Every person makes mistakes to make breakthroughs. You think all the top scientists, who came up with great ideas, got everything correct? No, they didn't. Statesmen? No. Writers? No. Bill Gates, always correct? No. The list goes on forever. You have to make many mistakes to come up with good ideas. That's what creativity is about. It's not a percentage thing. Putting a percentage on it is very small-minded.

You people don't seem to understand what it means to lead, manage, inspire, or drive people. It's very complex. It's a mix of positive and negative. If you lead a team to a great idea, yes you helped develop that idea. You have some ownership of that idea. That's the same anywhere, in any company. And that doesn't mean you need to create the icons in iOS to say it was your idea. Also, in many companies the top execs don't even lead or inspire the team to ideas, and they claim the products as their own.

Additionally, yeah it seems he was your typical type-a personality, which is typical of most heads of companies. Yes, he seemed to have all the negative trimmings - self-centered, impatient, etc.. Sure jerky. But there were people he was good to, and some people liked, and loved him. Nothing outside the ordinary. Really not at all.

But then people write comments as if he was a murdered or child molester. Being rude, or telling some one you think their work is ****, is jerky but it's really nothing, and far from the horror some people portray it to be. Yes, he had a bad relationship with some of his kids. Nothing out of the ordinary. And you may have also read he was very charming and charismatic at times too. If you are lucky enough to make it up the ranks for any corporation, you'll work with people who treat you just like (or worse than) Jobs did, but WITHOUT any vision. Myself and colleagues have personally experienced this dozens of times.

Comparing Steve Jobs and Bill Gates personal life is really meaningless. People are people, all very different, and very complex. Bill Gates and MS have done some amazing work. They deserve kudos. I love some MS products. But you think Bill Gates is perfect person? No, he's not. He has/had problems too, and not everyone liked working with him. Not to mention the underhanded tactics he and his company used to crush competition - abuse of monopoly power, etc. Seems pretty jerky too. But like any people Bill and Steve have both positive and negative aspects to their personality.

Just because later in life Gates became more philanthropic doesn't make up for anything. He has more money than he knows what to do with, so it's good to see it being used in a positive way. (I ascribe that more to his wife IMO; she's a very intelligent person). So Jobs personally wasn't big on philanthropy. Well bummer in one way, but I doubt most people are. Whatever. But Apple is. I also find the people who criticize Jobs for this, generally don't do anything of the sort themselves. Jobs worked for a decade without pay, and he put his own money over and over back into his company - the thing he believed it. Gates didn't work for free, and kept his money to himself. Neither position is right or wrong. And neither really makes one a better person. It's totally subjective. Also Jobs died pretty young. Who knows what might have changed, or not.

From my POV, as a creative director who has worked in many corporations, Jobs was not just about technology. He was a champion of creativity, and especially design. Even if at times he was jerky, people still appreciated that he drove them to do their best. Also many (understatement) people appreciated the products Apple created.

Bottom line: give credit where credit is due. Even if Steve Jobs wasn't the nicest guy to everyone (boohoo), he was an integral part of creating Apple; creating it's products; leading Apple to the top; and he and Apple have had a huge impact on the tech industry.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:48 AM   #77
Macrolido
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Aston Kutcher is a terrible actor, but looks convincing as Steve Jobs.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:43 AM   #78
zoetmb
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Originally Posted by the8thark View Post
There is a reason Apple stopped officially appearing at Macworld. This movie is only yet another reason keeping Apple away from the event. I just might not watch the movie ever out of respect for Steve Jobs.
Apple stopped going to trade shows when they opened their own retail. Jobs always said that more people visit the Apple stores in one day than would visit such a trade show in years. Furthermore, Apple sponsors its own Developer Conference and they want to make announcements to their schedule, not the show schedule.

Many trade shows are shadows of their former selves. The web and user forums such as this one have decreased the necessity of attending such shows. Let's say Apple did attend the show. What would you see that you couldn't see in any Apple store?

Whether it's going to be a good or bad movie, it has absolutely nothing to do with Apple's attendance at the show. Get real. While I can't stand the TV show that Kutcher is on, I don't understand all the hate for him playing young Jobs. IMO, you don't want a great actor in this role (like a young DeNiro, Pacino or Hoffman - frankly I can't think of today's equivalent) because then you only see the actor - you wouldn't see Jobs. The PR photos of Kutscher look almost exactly like Jobs did at the same age. IIRC, this movie is about the very early years of Apple. It might actually be fine. I'm actually more concerned about the other movie, which I think will mess with the history more.

I think Kutcher will be fine playing the Jobs that was brooding, the Jobs that was cruel, the Jobs that screwed Woz and the Jobs that created his own reality distortion field. The question in my mind is whether he can also communicate Jobs' genius.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 10:45 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morshu9001 View Post
They're going with "jOBS"!? WTF is that name?
You're a little late to the party. lol
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:24 PM   #80
ShawnKing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8thark View Post
There is a reason Apple stopped officially appearing at Macworld. This movie is only yet another reason keeping Apple away from the event.
These kinds of events never happened when Apple was exhibiting. Apple told IDG what they could and couldn't do at Expo. Now that Apple no longer shows, IDG is trying to find other ways to attract an audience. Your cause and effect is not accurate.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
Let's say Apple did attend the show. What would you see that you couldn't see in any Apple store?
Apple stores are not perfect. There are many vendors, I would even say the majority, that *aren't* represented in an Apple Store.

Apple has been cutting back and even removing software from many of its stores. Plus, a trade show like Expo attracts many smaller developers/companies that simply can't get into the Apple Store. And at an Expo, you can often talk to the actual people who create the software that you use. That can't be done at an Apple Store.
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