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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:00 PM   #1
PracticalMac
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Does prostitution truly exist? (legal definition aside)

pros·ti·tu·tion prästəˈt(y)o͞oSHən/
Noun
The practice or occupation of engaging in sex with someone for payment.
The corrupt use of one's talents for personal or financial gain.


payment [ˈpeɪmənt]
n
1. the act of paying
2. a sum of money paid
3. something given in return; punishment or reward.


Thought examples.

  • Exhibit A: Married couple, wife stays in a home that is provided by husband, purchases shoes and dresses from moneys given to her by husband.

They are married, you say, so it is acceptable, "Legal prostitution".
Very well.
  • Exhibit B: UN-Married couple, girlfriend stays in a home that is provided by boyfriend, purchases shoes and dresses from moneys given to her by said boyfriend.
One could say prostitution, even though it is not cash, it is "something".
  • Exhibit C: The Married couple from A is now divorced, ex-wife stays in a home that is still provided by ex-husband, purchases shoes and dresses from moneys given to her by ex-husbands alimony payment.
Sure, the sex part is likely gone, but one can argue it is "residual" from having the sex.

On a different angle,
Prostitution is regarded as "the worlds oldest profession" and has been seen in animals where the male gives objects, food mainly, for sex.


So sex with payment seems to be incredibly prevalent and broad, how can prostitution be unique and by extension a crime?

Discuss.
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Last edited by PracticalMac; Jan 22, 2013 at 02:04 PM. Reason: title change
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:27 PM   #2
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The legal description is based on a principle. Someone who charges to provide a sexual encounter is illegal, but it's a gray line. You can date someone who offers sex for free, no problem, but if a fee is involved, then it's not ok? A very good argument why prostitution should not be illegal imo.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:39 PM   #3
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Here in America, there is nothing but prostition. Sex is immoral, something to be ashamed of, and is only barely tolerated because of its use in procreation. But dont every let somebody catch you in the act - you can go to jail for it.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:43 PM   #4
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If you date someone who you give expensive presents to they are in some ways a prostitute.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 06:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan View Post
Here in America, there is nothing but prostition. Sex is immoral, something to be ashamed of, and is only barely tolerated because of its use in procreation. But dont every let somebody catch you in the act - you can go to jail for it.
Or make sure somebody videos you doing it. Your first amendment rights to depict the moment trump the prostitution laws...

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...h-prostitution
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 06:22 PM   #6
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I just wanna know how has backpage.com not been shut down yet????? It seems like there are always stories of people getting busted for using it, craiglist got their adult services part closed down when they started getting legal pressure........how is backpage still operating?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 06:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
If you date someone who you give expensive presents to they are in some ways a prostitute.
That depends on why you give the presents. And, of course, it can cut both ways.

How about a marriage where each partner is contributing to the household in one way or another in an agreed division of responsibilities? Who is the prostitute then?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 06:31 PM   #8
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Pretty much agree with the presents/sex analogy to prostitution. Women do, 'put out' when 'treated well'.

I do it too within my relationship with the girlfriend. Buy me shiny toys and I'll make an effort.

The term prostitute is an ugly one and it usually kills any sensible discussion as no-one wants to be thought of as a prostitute. Sex is a great reward to give and receive, whether the payment is money, dinner, drinks, a dress, Macbook doesn't matter necessarily.

Maybe prostitution should be relegated to a new definition of selling your body out of necessity, which isn't the case for a lot of sex workers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skunk View Post
How about a marriage where each partner is contributing to the household in one way or another in an agreed division of responsibilities? Who is the prostitute then?
Aren't you both?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:30 PM   #9
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What people do with their bodies, is their own business. Trading sex for money is no different than trading labor for money. Free individuals making decisions with what they do with their own lives.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:36 PM   #10
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I'd like to think that at least in the case of the marriage and the dating couple that there's a little more that a simple sex for financial support agreement going on.

Aren't both partners invested somewhat in a long term (compared to traditional prostitution) relationship? Aren't these relationships built on much more than sex alone?

Or am I just that old fashioned?
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:30 AM   #11
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i'm pretty sure prostitution is illegal because men kidnap young women from poor countries, or maybe runaways, anyways women who are young and on the fringes of society and get them hooked on (insert drug here) and then force them to sell their bodies on the street for cash.

Now i'm not saying this is 100% always the case, or maybe not even half, but lots of prostitutes are young women who are being pimped out ~ or not even making the money for themselves.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afireintonto View Post
i'm pretty sure prostitution is illegal because men kidnap young women from poor countries, or maybe runaways, anyways women who are young and on the fringes of society and get them hooked on (insert drug here) and then force them to sell their bodies on the street for cash.
What you're referring to is 'human trafficking', which is despicable and even worse than slavery and forced prostitution combined. It not only affects women, there have been cases where men were kidnapped the same way.

As for having sex for money; most prostitutes refer to themselves as escorts or sex workers. Most of them like what they are doing because it is a job that's always in demand, and in some countries the government even provides some form of health care while the sex workers get to be their own boss and quit at any time.

I think just like with drugs, if you regulate it and make it safer, people wouldn't be so up in arms about it because neither will ever stop - not even in places where it's illegal.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:48 AM   #13
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Can't understand why using your hands or brain to work for a company is fine, but using the vagina is not.

Prostitution is a classical example of demand based entrepreneurship.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
pros·ti·tu·tion prästəˈt(y)o͞oSHən/
Noun
The practice or occupation of engaging in sex with someone for payment.
The corrupt use of one's talents for personal or financial gain.


payment [ˈpeɪmənt]
n
1. the act of paying
2. a sum of money paid
3. something given in return; punishment or reward.


Thought examples.

  • Exhibit A: Married couple, wife stays in a home that is provided by husband, purchases shoes and dresses from moneys given to her by husband.

They are married, you say, so it is acceptable, "Legal prostitution".
Very well.
  • Exhibit B: UN-Married couple, girlfriend stays in a home that is provided by boyfriend, purchases shoes and dresses from moneys given to her by said boyfriend.
One could say prostitution, even though it is not cash, it is "something".
  • Exhibit C: The Married couple from A is now divorced, ex-wife stays in a home that is still provided by ex-husband, purchases shoes and dresses from moneys given to her by ex-husbands alimony payment.
Sure, the sex part is likely gone, but one can argue it is "residual" from having the sex.

On a different angle,
Prostitution is regarded as "the worlds oldest profession" and has been seen in animals where the male gives objects, food mainly, for sex.


So sex with payment seems to be incredibly prevalent and broad, how can prostitution be unique and by extension a crime?

Discuss.

It isn't a crime, in many countries out side the USA.

Human trafficking is a crime of the lowest order, and has been on the increase here in Europe for many years. International effort is needed to combat this crime, one of the ways forward is to harmonize laws across boarders.


On a personal note I did notice that the gifts got bigger as my wives got younger.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 03:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
It isn't a crime, in many countries out side the USA.

Human trafficking is a crime....
Those two do not have be related. I am aware they are sometimes. But there are also many sex workers by choice.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 03:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
I'd like to think that at least in the case of the marriage and the dating couple that there's a little more that a simple sex for financial support agreement going on.

Aren't both partners invested somewhat in a long term (compared to traditional prostitution) relationship? Aren't these relationships built on much more than sex alone?

Or am I just that old fashioned?
Don't think anyone is thinking that it's either one way or the other. Simply that sex as a reward is part of a relationship.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:11 AM   #17
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Yeah, whenever I have sex it's totally all about the shoes and dresses.

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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:51 AM   #18
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Yeah, whenever I have sex it's totally all about the shoes and dresses.

I know, I know. Succinct summary.

What can I say? Even the way the thread title is phrased by the OP is extraordinarily revealing and very telling.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:53 AM   #19
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I thought in some states it's actual legal if you have the license?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGi431LjHB8
This seems like a very professional operation to me
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:09 AM   #20
Andeavor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelneo View Post
I thought in some states it's actual legal if you have the license?
In the US it's only legal (and regulated) in Nevada, otherwise it's illegal.

For a complete overview look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_law
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by classicaliberal View Post
What people do with their bodies, is their own business. Trading sex for money is no different than trading labor for money. Free individuals making decisions with what they do with their own lives.
Would you feel the same when they walk in your neighborhood, take their Johns to the side of your house, finish him off and do it 200 more time that day for 15-20 bucks...(Mommy what is she doing to that man ..??) Will it ever end, never, can we regulate it, probably not because they service the illegals. You will never see high class hookers, they dont streetwalk.....You have have a Hollywood view of these skanks,,,
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:47 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
It isn't a crime, in many countries out side the USA.

Human trafficking is a crime of the lowest order, and has been on the increase here in Europe for many years. International effort is needed to combat this crime, one of the ways forward is to harmonize laws across boarders.


On a personal note I did notice that the gifts got bigger as my wives got younger.
Those few where it is legal is more an exception then rule.

And Human trafficking is outside scope of this topic (and besides, is a form of slavery which is a crime, being forced to do something one does not want to do).
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:12 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by skunk View Post
That depends on why you give the presents. And, of course, it can cut both ways.

How about a marriage where each partner is contributing to the household in one way or another in an agreed division of responsibilities? Who is the prostitute then?
I wanted to keep it simple, so did not use that example.

But if both did it, then both would be guilty, no?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squadleader View Post
Would you feel the same when they walk in your neighborhood, take their Johns to the side of your house, finish him off and do it 200 more time that day for 15-20 bucks...(Mommy what is she doing to that man ..??) Will it ever end, never, can we regulate it, probably not because they service the illegals. You will never see high class hookers, they dont streetwalk.....You have have a Hollywood view of these skanks,,,
Then it would be "public indecency", or like violation.
In a way similar to a neighbor playing his/her music very loud.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scepticalscribe View Post
What can I say? Even the way the thread title is phrased by the OP is extraordinarily revealing and very telling.
Do tell!
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
I'd like to think that at least in the case of the marriage and the dating couple that there's a little more that a simple sex for financial support agreement going on.

Aren't both partners invested somewhat in a long term (compared to traditional prostitution) relationship? Aren't these relationships built on much more than sex alone?

Or am I just that old fashioned?
during most of history, romantic feelings weren't really necessary for a marriage, it really often was just a legal partnership with the absence of any other economic safety net
if there were feelings it was considered a bonus

AFAIK the idea that one should only marry somebody for love is coming from the end of the 18th century.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:46 AM   #25
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Then it would be "public indecency", or like violation. In a way similar to a neighbor playing his/her music very loud.
You dont have a clue about what your talking about....No its not your neighbor playing loud music...Its a hooker looking for a tree or bush to give her non driving customer a blo@job for 10-15 bucks in front of your kid....The avg. hooker does this 50 times a day/night for meth or rock..They get kicked out of one area into the next...In fact indecent exposure is a 2nd Degree Misd. ..Prostitution is a 1st..5 convictions then its a 3rd degree felony..There are some hookers that have been busted 50 times before they die of AIDS or O.D. or at the hand of another hooker for taking their ten dollar john....Its is not as simplistic as, Do you think prostitution should be a crime...It is a crime, if they move to pager/cell phone and off the street NO ONE WILL THEN CARE. Its the plain sight exposure...
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