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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:02 AM   #151
Swiddle
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The iMac I had at work definitely didn't exhibit the IR until it warmed up under normal use. I first noticed the issue while installing applications. (I ignored it at first, hoping it would go away.) If the replacement unit also has IR, I will try to get temperature readings. My ambient office temperature is usually between 73 and 77 degrees (F).

Here is another photo I had taken:

IR of Checkerboard Pattern

Previously posted:

Youtube Video of IR
Test Image
IR of Test Image
Zoom 1
Zoom 2
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 09:50 AM   #152
pukingpixels
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No IR here either. Tried to heat it up as much as possible but no even a little bit of IR.


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Old Jan 17, 2013, 10:45 AM   #153
Spiffious
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I have IR issues too on my 27/i7/680/1gb fusion machine, though not as bad as swiddle's.

Symptoms just like most here are mentioning: light retention normally, but more obvious when machine heats up, etc. After copying large files for 10-20 minutes, then going to a gray screen, the retention clearly outlines the shape of windows, icons, etc.


So what do I do?

I am 2 hours from any apple store, though a local authorized repair center is 15 minutes away.

-I am past return policy
-I depend on this machine professionally and getting it to use by new years was essential.
-Called applecare: Said I could take it in locally to repair center or do 'onsite'.
-Called local repair center: Can make Appt. but they need to keep it 1.5 days typically. Said "image persistence is normal" but they can run a "lengthy" test.

-Don't want my first $2700 apple desktop torn open for the first time by some 3rd party.

-Replacement BTO is still weeks out, can't go without computer that long if it is replaced.

-Replacement will most likely have the same issue.


What to do?
Schedule onsite? Schedule with local place? Drive 2 hrs to apple store? Just wait a few months to see if there is something better? (have applecare extended.)

Thanks for any advise.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 07:51 PM   #154
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I got another iMac on Thursday. I didn't notice any retention with it, but it had a bad fan so I returned it yesterday morning and exchanged for another. The fan is good now, but I noticed that the third one has image retention soon after turning it on. This one is even worse than the first one. Now my wallpaper and browser window are retained, and that shows through videos I've been watching on YouTube. Like the first one, it is only the bottom half of the screen that has retention.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:28 PM   #155
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Where were your various machines assembled?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 11:19 AM   #156
Dec..
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Not noticed anything on mine that turned up yesterday. It's deadly silent.

Not sure if the screen has slight yellowing on the bottom half though, it seems to vary depending on how close/far I am and what angle I'm looking at the screen so think I'm possibly being paranoid. Also, next to my late 2006 MacBook, I never realised HOW yellow the screen on that is, but likely due to the age of it.

On the whole extremely happy! Hopefully they're ironing out these issues now.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 11:41 AM   #157
Coffee Minutes
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Terrible news. I plan to pull the trigger soon on a 27" - This IR issue leaves me worried, especially since there have also been known fan issues in this gen, as well.

How can Apple call this normal?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 11:53 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
Today the image retention was very bad, which is strange because yesterday I never noticed it. Today browser and email windows are being retained very quickly. Even keeping a web page open for 5 minutes results in a phantom of the window I closed. With the difference between yesterday and today, it makes me wonder if it is heat related. I don't feel any heat when I touch the back of the iMac, though.

I ran the grid pattern again and in 10 minutes it looked very different than when I did the test last night. Last night it seemed to only show up on the bottom of the screen, but today the pattern can clearly be seen over the whole screen, and it is taking a while to go back to normal after doing the 10 minute test.

Something else I'm noticing is that on a completely grey screen I can see a faint vertical lines at all times, even after the image retention has faded. I've never noticed that on displays before. You can clearly see the lines in the right side of the picture below.

I will definitely be exchanging it, but I sure hope that this isn't a problem that every one of them will exhibit. If this is the new normal for iMacs then I will have to figure something else out.

Thumb resize.
What does Apple think about this? And the Testing procedure? I did the test on my 2nd monitor and no retention at all. But i did it on my older iMac 2009 March version and it had terrible retention. But it's nearly 4 years old.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 11:57 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Coffee Minutes View Post
Terrible news. I plan to pull the trigger soon on a 27" - This IR issue leaves me worried, especially since there have also been known fan issues in this gen, as well.

How can Apple call this normal?
Don't worry too much. I got the i7/680mx/768gb version, and no issues here what so ever. I was also worried after reading about all the problems that people seem to have. I feel really bad for the people that waited a month or more for their iMac, and got a defect unit. That sucks...
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 03:11 PM   #160
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Don't worry too much. I got the i7/680mx/768gb version, and no issues here what so ever. I was also worried after reading about all the problems that people seem to have. I feel really bad for the people that waited a month or more for their iMac, and got a defect unit. That sucks...
Interesting that you don't have any issues with IR but you do have the full ssd on your iMac, maybe the spinning disk is contributing to generate more heat and fueling the problem, maybe we should make a poll with the different configurations to see which, if any has more people with IR problems..
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 03:32 PM   #161
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Interesting that you don't have any issues with IR but you do have the full ssd on your iMac, maybe the spinning disk is contributing to generate more heat and fueling the problem, maybe we should make a poll with the different configurations to see which, if any has more people with IR problems..
i7, 680MX, 1TB 7000rpm Seagate internal disk (no fusion - just Thunderbolt external SSD), no image retention of any sort, about a month in to ownership.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 03:51 PM   #162
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Just an update about my image retention problems.

i7, 32GB ram, 680mx, 3gb fusion.

Original machine had IR - ordered replacement (and got to keep my machine until it arrived).
Replacement arrived yesterday, so I set it up next to the original machine.

No IR on either booted from cold.

I set up a 'stress test' to warm up the machine - running a game on steam, copying 200GB of data, youtube streaming at 1080, running itunes to Airplay device, a few windows on desktop, etc.

No IR on either after 30 minutes of stress.

After an hour of stress testing, both machines displayed IR noticeably. Fans were going and back of both computers warm.

The replacement model is worse than my original model - displaying IR faster, and more obviously, and in addition the replacement has a yellow tint to the screen.

In real world use, I've only noticed IR twice on my original model over the last month, but it was pretty nasty when it occurred.

After discussing with AppleCare again - they have offered a 3rd replacement, and labelled the second machine DOA (their term, not mine). I will keep the original one until the 3rd replacement arrives. In all other respects both machines seem to function normally. They have thrown in a Thunderbolt cable at my request to speed up transfer of data between the old and new machines.

In general I am happy with the computer, and if the third model is the same, I will put up with this issue, which is not apparent most of the time. I would rather it didn't have IR.

I suspect most of the panels do have IR, but that most users won't ever notice it in real world use.

Last edited by drxcm; Jan 22, 2013 at 04:03 PM.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 04:16 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drxcm View Post
Just an update about my image retention problems.

i7, 32GB ram, 680mx, 3gb fusion.

Original machine had IR - ordered replacement (and got to keep my machine until it arrived).
Replacement arrived yesterday, so I set it up next to the original machine.

No IR on either booted from cold.

I set up a 'stress test' to warm up the machine - running a game on steam, copying 200GB of data, youtube streaming at 1080, running itunes to Airplay device, a few windows on desktop, etc.

No IR on either after 30 minutes of stress.

After an hour of stress testing, both machines displayed IR noticeably. Fans were going and back of both computers warm.

The replacement model is worse than my original model - displaying IR faster, and more obviously, and in addition the replacement has a yellow tint to the screen.

In real world use, I've only noticed IR twice on my original model over the last month, but it was pretty nasty when it occurred.

After discussing with AppleCare again - they have offered a 3rd replacement, and labelled the second machine DOA (their term, not mine). I will keep the original one until the 3rd replacement arrives. In all other respects both machines seem to function normally. They have thrown in a Thunderbolt cable at my request to speed up transfer of data between the old and new machines.

In general I am happy with the computer, and if the third model is the same, I will put up with this issue, which is not apparent most of the time. I would rather it didn't have IR.

I suspect most of the panels do have IR, but that most users won't ever notice it in real world use.
very interesting results, I have not received my iMac yet, if you or anyone else could test on putting an external fan behind the computer to keep it cooler will it last longer without the IR, i'm just trying to determine if the IR is directly affected by the heat of the computer or not..
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:24 PM   #164
nickgoldman
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Thumbs down

My new imac seems to have bad retention, if I leave a document open for 10-15 minutes I will then be able see an the imprint for several hours.
Please see the attached images.
I think I may have to return this imac.
I have also noticed my new Dell U2713HM has very mild white retention.
This also has an LG panel, so I might call Dell up for a replacement.
Click image for larger version

Name:	photo(2).JPG
Views:	72
Size:	3.40 MB
ID:	391996

Click image for larger version

Name:	photo(3).JPG
Views:	68
Size:	2.55 MB
ID:	391997
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:33 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgoldman View Post
My new imac seems to have bad retention, if I leave a document open for 10-15 minutes I will then be able see an the imprint for several hours.
Please see the attached images.
I think I may have to return this imac.
I have also noticed my new Dell U2713HM has very mild white retention.
This also has an LG panel, so I might call Dell up for a replacement.
Attachment 391996

Attachment 391997
You should be able to rid of the retention by running a screen saver for a few minutes. Retention is a common phenomenon with IPS panels. Some are much better than others though. Though if you do get a replacement it may be worse or better. There is also a chance you may get a panel or new iMac that will not show it until months later . This is what happened to me. I have tried dealing with apple but they told me its normal and won't replace it. I've just settle with it and now just ignore it now. Sucks but I can't keep dwelling over it cause it just depresses me.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:43 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Woodcrest64 View Post
You should be able to rid of the retention by running a screen saver for a few minutes. Retention is a common phenomenon with IPS panels. Some are much better than others though. Though if you do get a replacement it may be worse or better. There is also a chance you may get a panel or new iMac that will not show it until months later . This is what happened to me. I have tried dealing with apple but they told me its normal and won't replace it. I've just settle with it and now just ignore it now. Sucks but I can't keep dwelling over it cause it just depresses me.
I would not take no for answer, I would escalate, it is a new computer after all
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:54 PM   #167
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I would absolutely not accept it. If it was "supposed" to be that way, then every single iMac would have it. But only some do, not all, therefor it is a defect. If your computer cannot deliver you the same performance/image as someone else's, same specs and all, then that is defective. I strongly believe that Apple is just saying that it's "normal" because, well, if it happens with enough of them technically you can call it "normal" because it IS in fact the norm. But, I believe they are also saying it's normal to cover their ass. There is no reason that an image should stay on a screen once the data is removed.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:49 PM   #168
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I would absolutely not accept it. If it was "supposed" to be that way, then every single iMac would have it. But only some do, not all, therefor it is a defect. If your computer cannot deliver you the same performance/image as someone else's, same specs and all, then that is defective. I strongly believe that Apple is just saying that it's "normal" because, well, if it happens with enough of them technically you can call it "normal" because it IS in fact the norm. But, I believe they are also saying it's normal to cover their ass. There is no reason that an image should stay on a screen once the data is removed.
I agree with you. From what I have read though the IR seems to be with panels manufactured by LG for the 2012 iMac, 13" Retina Macbook Pros and 15" Retina Macbook Pros.

My 15" Retina Macbook Pro didn't show IR until 6 months later. My concern is if ALL the 2012 iMacs have LG displays will they all eventually show some signs of IR? Cause if that's true then no matter how many returns you do you're going to get it. The only exception with some of the 15" Macbook Pros with the retina displays are that some have panels from Samsung. Those apparently don't have any IR.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 08:45 AM   #169
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I agree with you. From what I have read though the IR seems to be with panels manufactured by LG for the 2012 iMac, 13" Retina Macbook Pros and 15" Retina Macbook Pros.

My 15" Retina Macbook Pro didn't show IR until 6 months later. My concern is if ALL the 2012 iMacs have LG displays will they all eventually show some signs of IR? Cause if that's true then no matter how many returns you do you're going to get it. The only exception with some of the 15" Macbook Pros with the retina displays are that some have panels from Samsung. Those apparently don't have any IR.
Well. That's why I've been thinking, if my iMac comes in with any IR, I will probably exchange it once, and if THAT one has IR, I'm going to say "f-it" and swap it or for, or get a refund and get a 15" Retina MBP and make sure it's got a Samsung display. Either that or a Classic MBP with the 1680x1050 Hi-Res display.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:11 AM   #170
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Brightness?

I received an iMac just over 3 weeks ago and have no image retention. Could screen brightness be a factor? I run it at a brightness of 4 out of 16 or sometimes 5 out of 16 on the brightness scale.

i7, 3T FD, and 680 for reference.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:51 AM   #171
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Well. That's why I've been thinking, if my iMac comes in with any IR, I will probably exchange it once, and if THAT one has IR, I'm going to say "f-it" and swap it or for, or get a refund and get a 15" Retina MBP and make sure it's got a Samsung display. Either that or a Classic MBP with the 1680x1050 Hi-Res display.
I was thinking the same thing but in my case i've been thinking if the first one has bad IR then i'm just going to get a refund buy a mac mini and wait for the refresh on the Mac Pro's just because I don't want to deal with the display problem obviously it will cost more money but in the end the display can be switched without having to return the entire computer..
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:10 AM   #172
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I was thinking the same thing but in my case i've been thinking if the first one has bad IR then i'm just going to get a refund buy a mac mini and wait for the refresh on the Mac Pro's just because I don't want to deal with the display problem obviously it will cost more money but in the end the display can be switched without having to return the entire computer..
Yeah, depending on how I feel at the moment, I might just give up on it after the first one, if it's defective. A little tiny bit of backlight bleed, or barely noticeable blotches (like only if you pull up a dark gray screen and look very close) will be acceptable. Just as long as there's no image retention, bubbles under the glass, or scratches glass. I mean, I don't see why Apple hasn't acknowledged this issue, because it's obviously an issue. Especially if you spend $2500 or more on a computer. Cause ya know, the computer that I spent $2500 on, better be perfect, dangit. I don't see why wanting a properly functioning product is so wrong.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:53 AM   #173
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I received an iMac just over 3 weeks ago and have no image retention. Could screen brightness be a factor? I run it at a brightness of 4 out of 16 or sometimes 5 out of 16 on the brightness scale.

i7, 3T FD, and 680 for reference.
You may not get any image retention at all if you ran it at the full brightness. It may appear in a few weeks or 6 months later like it did with my Macbook Pro retina. If you do not see it don't stress looking for it. Just enjoy your machine.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 05:05 PM   #174
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You should be able to rid of the retention by running a screen saver for a few minutes. Retention is a common phenomenon with IPS panels. Some are much better than others though. Though if you do get a replacement it may be worse or better. There is also a chance you may get a panel or new iMac that will not show it until months later . This is what happened to me. I have tried dealing with apple but they told me its normal and won't replace it. I've just settle with it and now just ignore it now. Sucks but I can't keep dwelling over it cause it just depresses me.
I can get new retention to go away pretty quickly on mine. For example, if I run the grid test for a few minutes, it goes away after about the same length of time that it was on the screen. But my dock icons and browser window are now permanent, just like it was on my first iMac.

Mine is so bad that all of my dock icons are now retained in full color. I can see my dock icons and the outline of my browser window when I watch a movie. I was in Windows 8 all day yesterday, and the dock icons and browser outline didn't fade at all. Actually, I now have an additional browser outline from my browser I had on the screen while in Windows. I don't think I even used the browser in Windows for very long, because I was playing Guild Wars 2 most of the time. I haven't been in Windows today, but I can still see that browser outline that was retained yesterday.

I've had this one, which is my third, for a week now, and I'm taking it back tomorrow to exchange.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:02 PM   #175
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why is that new macs are always prone to retention!
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