The overly devoted Apple customer is hurting Apple...

[AQUADock]

Originally Posted by TheHateMachine

Care to explain how that sentence is calling YOU a blind consumer? Furthermore please include the rest of my post so that sentence can be used in context with what I said about Tinmania. The post was about him in the first place, not you.

Well it seemed like you were calling me that since you quoted me. Anyway i wasn't offended by it so it's not big deal.

[jrswizzle]

Originally Posted by TheHateMachine

Its unfair to say the stock prices are only manipulated by the analysts. The prices soared because their huge growth prospects, when the company growth sputters and begins to flatten out the price people were willing to pay for the company shares goes down. So yes while big reports from big names can influence it and scare the overly emotional causing a sell off it is not the only thing that effects the prices.

Again, I do not think anyone here with an ounce of intelligence believes Apple is going under. Instead their growth is slowing to the point where it is almost stopping due to a number of factors. No one was saying Microsoft was absolutely doomed when they went from Growth to Mature and just started printing money with a set of cash cows.

We all know Apple is going to keep making money and with their assets they can keep themselves afloat in the instance that something catastrophic happens (Meteor blows up Foxconn facility) They just might start making less and their days of growth may be over.

----------



Care to explain how that sentence is calling YOU a blind consumer? Furthermore please include the rest of my post so that sentence can be used in context with what I said about Tinmania. The post was about him in the first place, not you.

I didn't say stock prices were ONLY analyst manipulated.....simply that analyst projections (unreasonably high or low) do affect stock price....sometimes more than actual numbers (like we see here).

There are a number of factors to take into consideration when speaking about the "stagnant" growth of Q1 2013 - new product lines, more releases and a shorter quarter for one - if Apple made $13.1 B in a quarter, they were essentially making a little over $1B a week this quarter versus roughly $900M per week last quarter - given that pace and a 13 week quarter last year, they would have made roughly $12B in profits versus the $13B this year....

A guy bringing in $1M in one quarter can grow by 100% for his entire lifetime and never see the type of money Apple sees even in "stagnant" growth.....

Percentages are deceiving and analysts are much like consumers - they have short attention spans and always are looking for something exciting to peak their interest - logic/concrete numbers have less to do with it....

[TheHateMachine]

Originally Posted by jrswizzle

I didn't say stock prices were ONLY analyst manipulated.....simply that analyst projections (unreasonably high or low) do affect stock price....sometimes more than actual numbers (like we see here).

There are a number of factors to take into consideration when speaking about the "stagnant" growth of Q1 2013 - new product lines, more releases and a shorter quarter for one - if Apple made $13.1 B in a quarter, they were essentially making a little over $1B a week this quarter versus roughly $900M per week last quarter - given that pace and a 13 week quarter last year, they would have made roughly $12B in profits versus the $13B this year....

A guy bringing in $1M in one quarter can grow by 100% for his entire lifetime and never see the type of money Apple sees even in "stagnant" growth.....

Percentages are deceiving and analysts are much like consumers - they have short attention spans and always are looking for something exciting to peak their interest - logic/concrete numbers have less to do with it....

Shame on me for assuming. All that logical reasoning in response to my post and yet you failed to address the part about Foxconn's imminent doom via Meteor strike. Why are you dancing around the real issues here!

[hyteckit]

So all the guys on this thread who said Apple is DOOM and no one wants an iPhone are DEAD WRONG.

10 million more iPhones sold 1Q 2013 than 1Q 2012.
A 29% increase from the same quarter last year.

Now they want to spin it about stock prices because they won't admit that they are wrong.

[Tinmania]

Originally Posted by Zaft

Difference is the titanic was going to sink 100%. you have no idea what apple will be in 5 years.

Absolutely. And I hope they are better than ever. But, in my opinion, that is not going to happen with the status quo.

All I said was that this is the year the shine comes off the Apple (i.e., the bloom is off the rose). And so far it appears I will be right. That doesn't mean it is the end of Apple, or even close to it.





Michael

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Tinmania

Absolutely. And I hope they are better than ever. But, in my opinion, that is not going to happen with the status quo.

All I said was that this is the year the shine comes off the Apple (i.e., the bloom is off the rose). And so far it appears I will be right. That doesn't mean it is the end of Apple, or even close to it.





Michael

You are WRONG.

You are just TROLLING.

Apple stocks basically almost always drop after an earnings report.

[Tinmania]

Originally Posted by jrswizzle

You can either judge a company's success by concrete numbers like profits and revenue or by analyst-manipulated stock prices......

Oh god. It is exactly that that is worrying the market. PROFIT.

I can see that Apple could be at <200 and there are some who will think there is nothing wrong. Oh well. lol




Michael

----------

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Not sure what reality you live in. I guess you don't like FACTS, but like the SPIN that Apple is DOOM.

Yea I mean most everyone out there is wrong except for rabbit fans on an Apple forum. Should I be surprised? Of course not. lol



Michael

[jrswizzle]

Originally Posted by Tinmania

Oh god. It is exactly that that is worrying the market. PROFIT.

I can see that Apple could be at <200 and there are some who will think there is nothing wrong. Oh well. lol




Michael

----------


Yea I mean most everyone out there is wrong except for rabbit fans on an Apple forum. Should I be surprised? Of course not. lol



Michael

There is a lot more than goes into "profit" than the initial number of $13.1B (which, by the way is nuts and more than last year's extra quarter - profit was up $100M/week Q1 2013 vs Q1 2012).

And I think the word you're looking for is rabid.

Look some of us aren't going to overreact - maybe I'm under-reatcing, though frankly until Apple actually does hit $200 (and sales numbers, profit all tank) I'll reserve the right to believe the sky ISN'T falling.

Put it this way - if Apple is still growing by about $1B year over year each Quarter and their stock price drops to $200 - I wouldn't panic....because they are still adding $1 BILLION each quarter/each year.....

[Tinmania]

Originally Posted by hyteckit

You are WRONG.

You are just TROLLING.

Apple stocks basically almost always drop after an earnings report.

Trolling. A word used in desperation when faced with the reality the debate is lost.

News flash: yesterday APPL dropped more than it has in over four years. That is a fact. And yet I am hearing the same nonsense that it "happens after an earnings report." Earning reports come every quarter. Apple dropped more yesterday than after the last sixteen earnings reports. If you want to ignore that, fine. But it won't make it any less true.



Michael

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Tinmania

Trolling. A word used in desperation when faced with the reality the debate is lost.

News flash: yesterday APPL dropped more than it has in over four years. That is a fact. And yet I am hearing the same nonsense that it "happens after an earnings report." Earning reports come every quarter. Apple dropped more yesterday than after the last sixteen earnings reports. If you want to ignore that, fine. But it won't make it any less true.



Michael

So you want to SPIN it about Apple stock prices now?

Because you are wrong about iPhone and iPad sales numbers?

Samsung stocks drop by 36,000 won today after earnings report.

Samsung is DOOM.

[Tinmania]

Originally Posted by jrswizzle

There is a lot more than goes into "profit" than the initial number of $13.1B (which, by the way is nuts and more than last year's extra quarter - profit was up $100M/week Q1 2013 vs Q1 2012).

And I think the word you're looking for is rabid.

Look some of us aren't going to overreact - maybe I'm under-reatcing, though frankly until Apple actually does hit $200 (and sales numbers, profit all tank) I'll reserve the right to believe the sky ISN'T falling.

Put it this way - if Apple is still growing by about $1B year over year each Quarter and their stock price drops to $200 - I wouldn't panic....because they are still adding $1 BILLION each quarter/each year.....

Oh cute. Spelling kop. A new low.

Look I pointed out a simple fact: Apple dropped more yesterday than in over 4 years. And at a time when the S&P has been doing well. There is a reason for that. Really.

As someone else alluded to: when Apple is at an all-time high the market and the analysts are spot-on here at MR. But when the market becomes skeptical of Apple it and analysts are all wrong. That really shouldn't surprise me here but I do find it hypocritical.



Michael

----------

Originally Posted by hyteckit

So you want to SPIN it about Apple stock prices now?

Because you are wrong about iPhone and iPad sales numbers?

Samsung stocks drop by 36,000 won today after earnings report.

Samsung is DOOM.

Image

Now this is just amusing. Samsung? You do realize they are eating Apple's lunch in the smartphone arena, don't you? It didn't have to be that way.

As far as the "you are wrong about iPhone and iPad sales numbers" comment, please show me where I ever even gave a number. If you are going to resort to outright lies then I am done with you.



Michael

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Tinmania

Now this is just amusing. Samsung? You do realize they are eating Apple's lunch in the smartphone arena, don't you? It didn't have to be that way.

Michael

Yet Samsung stock's tank today after earnings report.

Guess Samsung is sinking like the Titanic.




Guess who's lunch is Samsung eating into? Hint: The ones with negative growth.

Originally Posted by Tinmania

As far as the "you are wrong about iPhone and iPad sales numbers" comment, please show me where I ever even gave a number. If you are going to resort to outright lies then I am done with you.

Because you are not smart enough to figure out that:

1. 29% increase in iPhones sales compare to last year
2. 50% increase in iPad sales compare to last year
3. 46.9% increase in marketshare of smartphones compare to last year

means demand for iPad and iPhones are increasing by a lot. Apple gain marketshare.

[Tinmania]

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Yet Samsung stock's tank today after earnings report.

Guess Samsung is sinking like the Titanic.

Samsung is eating into other Android maker's lunch.

Image

A quick search in google under news:


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you are freaking out over all of this. I would suggest calming down.

As for your poor attempt at dragging Samsung into this? Not the brightest move. From Forbes just an hour ago:

Samsung's Record Profits From Apple's Main Market

SAN JOSE, CA - JULY 30: A sign is posted in front of a Samsung Electronics office on July 30, 2012 in San Jose, California. The trial in the Apple Inc. and Samsung Electronics Co. patent battle begins today at a San Jose federal courthouse to determine if Samsung illegally copied technolgy used in Apple's popular iPhone and iPads. Apple is seeking $2.5 billion in damages. (Image credit: Getty Images via @daylife)

The most impressive part of Samsung’s earnings over the past quarter is a rise in profitability of 76%, or maybe it’s the doubling of smartphone profits.

A close contender for achievement of the year, though, is the sheer volume of smartphones sold by Samsung. According to Strategy Analytics, “Samsung’s 2012 shipment volume was the largest number of units ever shipped by a smartphone vendor in a single year.”

Apple profits, announced yesterday, were more or less flat, prompting further coverage today of Apple’s declining innovation leadership.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnsha...it-new-record/

Forbes or some random guy on MR? Who to believe... who to believe...




Michael

[Zaft]

Once apple shows some new APPLE TV (not the streaming box) the stock will go right back up.

[hyteckit]

Tinmania

Is it about Apple Stock prices?

or

iPhone and iPads sales numbers?

Let me guess, you want to focus on Apple stock prices because you are WRONG

about iPhone and iPad sales numbers?

----------

Originally Posted by Tinmania

Forbes or some random guy on MR? Who to believe... who to believe...

Michael

I would not believe or trust a guy on MR named Michael who calls others "rabbit fans".

----------

Hey Tinmania Michael.

Stop TROLLING.

Every quarter we hear the same trolls calling Apple is DOOM. Happens to Apple almost every earnings report.

Here's after Q3 2012 report:

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/...t-wall-street/

Apple's earnings disappoint. Shares fall over $30 after hours

http://www.forbes.com/sites/conniegu...ins-live-blog/

Apple Sales Miss Estimates, Shares Fall As iPhone Pause Begins (Live Blog)

[Zaft]

Im not sure if people realize but its rather cool now a days to hate apple and say they are doomed. Most people just jump band wagons because its "cool"

One of my Wife's girl friends switch from iphone to gs3. She was telling me on how it has this cool feature that when your on a phone call the screen shuts off so your face doesnt press numbers on the screen.......i was laughing...

[Tinmania]

I'm thoroughly convinced the die-hard Apple fans (here) cannot stomach even the slightest criticism of Apple.

Interestingly I often hear things like "go try that in an Android forum and see what you get??!!!!!!"

Well, to my surprise I don't see that at all. There is a thread, right in the Note 2 forum at Android Central--not in an ALTERNATIVE forum like this one--that is entitled, "What can the new iphone 5 do better than the Note 2?"

If the reverse was posted here it would have resulted in a.) a massive revolt against the Note 2/Android/Samsung and b.) the thread being yanked out of the iPhone 5 forum and thrown into here. But there it was just sensible discussion. No crazy defense of the Note 2, Android, or Samsung. No attack on Apple.

Pretty sad that it is not like that here. Shame on those of you who can't handle any criticism of Apple.




Michael

[jrswizzle]

Originally Posted by Tinmania

I'm thoroughly convinced the die-hard Apple fans (here) cannot stomach even the slightest criticism of Apple.

Interestingly I often hear things like "go try that in an Android forum and see what you get??!!!!!!"

Well, to my surprise I don't see that at all. There is a thread, right in the Note 2 forum at Android Central--not in an ALTERNATIVE forum like this one--that is entitled, "What can the new iphone 5 do better than the Note 2?"

If the reverse was posted here it would have resulted in a.) a massive revolt against the Note 2/Android/Samsung and b.) the thread being yanked out of the iPhone 5 forum and thrown into here. But there it was just sensible discussion. No crazy defense of the Note 2, Android, or Samsung. No attack on Apple.

Pretty sad that it is not like that here. Shame on those of you who can't handle any criticism of Apple.




Michael

I too am thoroughly convinced that no matter how well Apple is doing there will always be those who either wish for Apple's demise or fear its coming soon....

Run along Chicken Little - in what is supposedly the year Apple's shine leaves they've started by beating Samsung in profits, revenue and have continued growth in market share, owning over 50% of the US market and rising to 20+% in China and increasing to up over 25% worldwide (up from 19% 2011).

Come back to this when Apple's losing money and losing marketshare....then we can discuss Apple's luster fading.

[ReanimationN]

Originally Posted by Tinmania

I'm thoroughly convinced the die-hard Apple fans (here) cannot stomach even the slightest criticism of Apple.

Interestingly I often hear things like "go try that in an Android forum and see what you get??!!!!!!"

Well, to my surprise I don't see that at all. There is a thread, right in the Note 2 forum at Android Central--not in an ALTERNATIVE forum like this one--that is entitled, "What can the new iphone 5 do better than the Note 2?"

If the reverse was posted here it would have resulted in a.) a massive revolt against the Note 2/Android/Samsung and b.) the thread being yanked out of the iPhone 5 forum and thrown into here. But there it was just sensible discussion. No crazy defense of the Note 2, Android, or Samsung. No attack on Apple.

Pretty sad that it is not like that here. Shame on those of you who can't handle any criticism of Apple.




Michael

I don't know about that forum, but on XDA there's a pretty prominent poster with a signature that says something to the effect of Apple users being unwelcome in his home, and that people can't bring Apple devices into his house (he may have changed it by now, but I very clearly remember that sig from when I was looking around for Nexus 7 toolkits). There's extremists everywhere, that guy, however, takes the cake from what I've seen so far. Talk about making a religion out of it. There's also a few die hard Apple haters on there, just as there's a few people here who hate Android here. Android forums aren't the glorious sanctuary of harmony you make you them out to be.

[TheHateMachine]

Originally Posted by ReanimationN

I don't know about that forum, but on XDA there's a pretty prominent poster with a signature that says something to the effect of Apple users being unwelcome in his home, and that people can't bring Apple devices into his house (he may have changed it by now, but I very clearly remember that sig from when I was looking around for Nexus 7 toolkits). There's extremists everywhere, that guy, however, takes the cake from what I've seen so far. Talk about making a religion out of it. There's also a few die hard Apple haters on there, just as there's a few people here who hate Android here. Android forums aren't the glorious sanctuary of harmony you make you them out to be.

Well, I'd have to agree with Tinmania. Granted this is the only Mac based site I ever frequent but their seems to be a lot of folks on this board that like to spit venom at Samsung and Android whenever they can. I know you will find fanboys and bad eggs, it just feels like this site harbours a lot of Apple elitists. When you go to a front page news article, many times there is someone who chimes in well before Android or Samsung is mentioned about how "News X makes Apple superior to so and so".

Or it gets really bad and people like Lagunasol show up and just say something akin to this. "Android is for poor people, Scamsung sucks and Koreans are horrible".

[Tinmania]

Originally Posted by jrswizzle

I too am thoroughly convinced that no matter how well Apple is doing there will always be those who either wish for Apple's demise or fear its coming soon....

Run along Chicken Little - in what is supposedly the year Apple's shine leaves they've started by beating Samsung in profits, revenue and have continued growth in market share, owning over 50% of the US market and rising to 20+% in China and increasing to up over 25% worldwide (up from 19% 2011).

Come back to this when Apple's losing money and losing marketshare....then we can discuss Apple's luster fading.

Thanks for proving my point about this site. I am not running anywhere. Never added anyone to my ignore list but you are quickly becoming the first real contender for it. Spewing nonsense regarding Samsung's dominant, and increasing, smartphone marketshare in the world is a bit over-the-top even for here. At least you could have used the old "and Porshe sells less than Chevy" kind of argument. But distorting reality to make it seem Apple is in a better marketshare position than they are? Why? I'm genuinely curious. Is that you feel Apple cares about you, personally, so you must defend her honor no matter what? I do not get that.

I'm surrounded by Apple products as I type this (on my mac) yet don't feel I "owe" Apple any kind of allegiance other than buying a product made... err, designed by them if I feel it is worth it.



Michael

[jrswizzle]

Originally Posted by Tinmania

Thanks for proving my point about this site. I am not running anywhere. Never added anyone to my ignore list but you are quickly becoming the first real contender for it. Spewing nonsense regarding Samsung's dominant, and increasing, smartphone marketshare in the world is a bit over-the-top even for here. At least you could have used the old "and Porshe sells less than Chevy" kind of argument. But distorting reality to make it seem Apple is in a better marketshare position than they are? Why? I'm genuinely curious. Is that you feel Apple cares about you, personally, so you must defend her honor no matter what? I do not get that.

I'm surrounded by Apple products as I type this (on my mac) yet don't feel I "owe" Apple any kind of allegiance other than buying a product made... err, designed by them if I feel it is worth it.


Michael

LOL - man you crack me up.....why do you take these things so seriously?

I'm not attacking you. I'm not saying you don't like Apple. I'm not saying Samsung had a bad year.....you just can't stop ignoring facts and making yourself a martyr here....a dramatic one.

Listen - here's the bottom line:

Apple's profit growth has slowed - it happens when you get as big as Apple is (and start offering devices to compete on price AND release multiple new product lines in a year). They made $13.1B in a quarter - more than Samsung (even after a 76% jump) and more than most other computer companies combined.

Apple's marketshare is growing. I never said they were growing at the same rate as Samsung - in fact I never said they were ahead of Samsung. I'm not distorting anything, you are. While Samsung is gaining marketshare more quickly than Apple, they are NOT taking marketshare from Apple, but from the Nokias, HTCs, LGs etc....

Apple ended the year at 51% to Android's 44% in the US (which would probably put Samsung somewhere in the neighborhood of high 30%). Yes that's one market, but it is the largest in the world. In China, Apple is growing - sure they lag behind (as they always have overseas) but they are improving, now over 20% in the world's second largest market.

Overall for smartphones they gained 6% marketshare year-over-year (now at 25.1% versus 18.8% a year ago)....yes Samsung grew more, but not at the expense of Apple. These are facts. I'm not making them up or distorting them in any way.

Truth is, it's way too early to say Apple is losing its shine. You're basing your claim off an emotional response to what you feel is a lack of innovation (which I would argue means you probably have liked Apple more than even me in the past - I don't think you are an Apple hater) and a large drop in stock price. Is there a cause for concern in the stock price drop? Meh, I'm sure Apple execs see it and are aware, but I also know that those execs are the ONLY ones who know what Apple has planned over the next few years....

Maybe this makes you a better Apple fan than me - perhaps the opposite of the premise of the title is true - maybe you (and others) think those of us who are content with Apple - and are not overreacting, or reacting at all, to this stock price drop - are the ones hastening Apple's demise. I don't believe that, but if the day comes that Apple's profits start to dwindle and they being getting outpaced - and lose marketshare to other companies, that will be the day I'll be upset. Because i enjoy my Apple products and want them to continue to get better......I suppose my standards aren't as 'far-reaching' as some.

But yesterday - after announcing record profits, revenue, iPad and iPhone sales and marketshare growth in the face of iOS 6 issues and increasingly bad publicity - despite the drop in stock price, was not the day for me to get upset.

I'm sorry if I offended you - but I'd respectfully ask that you examine my post and instead of ignoring the numbers, calmly rebut them or discuss them. That's all I look for. Otherwise, instead of saying the same things you've been posting over and over in response to me, feel free to put me on the ignore list.

[F123D]

Every quarter we hear the same trolls calling Apple is DOOM.

Can I see where all these comments where DOOM was used? The only people I see using apple and doom in the same sentence are the ones defending apple..

[Tinmania]

Originally Posted by F123D

Can I see where all these comments where DOOM was used? The only people I see using apple and doom in the same sentence are the ones defending apple..

Indeed. Oh well.

But as far as this site it seems this thread has attracted what remains of the hardcore defenders of anything Apple.

Looking at the first page of comments to the front page story here right now regarding the 5S getting a better rear camera; most of them are far from glowing. Used to be very different and the ones who said that is it they are looking at something else would have gone down in flames.




Michael

[lordjonny]

I think the problem is the fast moving pace of other companies is causing people to believe that Apple has to as well. It hasn't done so in the past and I don't want to encourage them to. They take the time to make good products and develop an idea fully before releasing it to market, otherwise you get Apple Maps.

Other companies such as Microsoft, Sony and Samsung have historically pumped out products to no end and nothing is ever great, its good, it works and its cheaper, but its not great. Apple was developing the iPhone for 2 years behind closed doors. Now they have a larger marketshare, they need to innovate as well as create new products, its barely been 2 years since their best iPhone and they need time to make good products(why do you think they always have older components than are available, because they extensively test), as well as having more product lines such as the iPad to maintain.

I hope people who complain get bored of waiting and get lost, but Apple hopefully won't change their ways, they will remain a watching, waiting, innovative company and not one that is led by the banks. The money is simply a side effect of great work.

I'm sure there are small bits to pick at in my comment but the underlying message won't be lost hopefully.