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marksman

macrumors 603
Jun 4, 2007
5,764
5
These are the carriers' current policies, but there's nothing to stop them from changing this if the regulatory environment shifts toward heavy-handed enforcement of carrier locks. Given a favorable environment, it's in the carriers' interest (or so they seem to think) to increase customers' switching costs as much as possible.

The thing is the decision was based on this openess. If that changes they could just modify their ruling again.

For some weird reason a librarian is in charge of cell phones in the US, and I am still not clear how or why they have the authority to make such arbitrary decisions. It sounds really weird to me. Organizations like the FCC have weird regulatory policies but I have never heard of this Librarian and making things legal or illegal.
 

saud0488

macrumors 6502
Aug 18, 2011
495
0
Such a BS! OK, MAYBE I understand if you are under a contract but after the contract expires? Geeez!

I don't understand even then. If you were to lose or break your phone, you still have to pay the rest of the contract, that is, use it out.

How does unlocking your phone make it so that you don't have to pay? That's the main issue here. If you are under contract, you should be able to unlock since it's not really getting you out of your contract. If you don't want to, you pay the ETF. It seems the carriers want it both ways.

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This is the problem right there...you have false sense of entitlement that this is "your phone".....no its not your phone.

My phone, that I paid $650 for in the Apple Store, is my phone(or at least much more "my phone" than your phone is your phone)

You signed a contract to get it for $200. Your monthly payments are for Service, not the device. ATT helped you by paying $450 difference for the device...thus they get to do what they want.

If you didnt want that, you should have walked in the Apple store and paid $650 for it..like myself and others.

Wrong, it is MY phone. AT&T sold it to me for $200 with the caveat that I have to have a contract with them, which I agreed to. If I break the contract, I have to pay the ETF, which I agreed to as well.

It was AT&T's phone, and now it's my phone. The service is being rented out, not the device. If I were to lose it, is it still AT&T's phone then? What if it were stolen? If it were in fact AT&T's phone, like banks own cars and houses, then they would require some sort of insurance against such things.
 

NorEaster

macrumors regular
Feb 14, 2012
239
23
This is the problem right there...you have false sense of entitlement that this is "your phone".....no its not your phone.

My phone, that I paid $650 for in the Apple Store, is my phone(or at least much more "my phone" than your phone is your phone)

You signed a contract to get it for $200. Your monthly payments are for Service, not the device. ATT helped you by paying $450 difference for the device...thus they get to do what they want.

If you didnt want that, you should have walked in the Apple store and paid $650 for it..like myself and others.

Hahaha...Really? So I have no ownership claim to the device? Even after I've fulfilled my contract requirements? Is that what you're saying? Does that mean you have no ownership claim to your car if you're still making bank payments against it? You crack me up. Please tell me you're an AT&T employee... I can't seem to reconcile your perspective otherwise.
 

maximini

macrumors member
Sep 11, 2011
45
0
Sorry for the color and text size but most I see in this thread is about expressing anger for not being able to unlock phones that will be purchased after Jan 26th under contract. What about phones bought before Jan 26th?

Can someone confirm that whoever bought a subsidized phone under a 2-year contract before this Jan 26th from AT&T will simply be able to ask AT&T to unlock it once the contract arrives at expiration after Jan 26th, i.e. as described for the iPhone at https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_GB/ ?

Thank you!
 

macmichael01

macrumors newbie
Jan 25, 2013
4
0
I wonder if the same rule applies to android based devices or if its a strategy against iOS devices. A good way to lower Apple's market share IMO.

Since when did the DMCA have a place in our government? GTFO DMCA!
 

lazard

macrumors 68000
Jul 23, 2012
1,608
818
Wrong, it is MY phone. AT&T sold it to me for $200 with the caveat that I have to have a contract with them, which I agreed to. If I break the contract, I have to pay the ETF, which I agreed to as well.

AT&T sold it to you for $200 under the condition that you sign a two year contract and abide by their terms and conditions. If their T&C says that the phone is to remained locked for the length of the 2 yr contract, then who are you to complain. You sign their contract, you follow their rules.
 

macUser2007

macrumors 68000
May 30, 2007
1,506
203
Because I had the chance to buy an iPhone unlocked and I decided to let AT&T pay for it for me instead. That's the trade-off. When I have a choice and I take the path that gives someone else leverage, that's what I get.
...

Uhm, your contract says you have to pay a certain amount each month to the carrier, or pay a termination penalty. The hardware is yours.

Why do you think your phone should be locked, as long as you continue to pay to the carrier what you agreed to pay them?

It'd be the same as if the bank which gave you your mortgage loan refuses to allow you to rent your house, or to allow your in-laws to move in -- it makes no sense. You are either being disingenuous, or just too used to being screwed to notice that there is a problem.
 
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kas23

macrumors 603
Oct 28, 2007
5,629
288
AT&T sold it to you for $200 under the condition that you sign a two year contract and abide by their terms and conditions. If their T&C says that the phone is to remained locked for the length of the 2 yr contract, then who are you to complain. You sign their contract, you follow their rules.

It's a business contract, as you point out. Are there other areas of commerce where breaking a contract is illegal?
 

thuchu1

macrumors regular
Oct 16, 2010
155
22
Auburn Hills, MI
SO AT&T still has you on the hook for 2 years of ****** pricing in a market where phones update every 6 months anymore. Why can't we do what we wont when we OWN the phone now?

They unlock it as soon as the two years are over. You aren't stuck after the contract, or you can just buy the phone outright. The phone's don't actually cost $200, AT&T pays for the whole cost of the phone when you don't. That's what contracts are for. Soon companies are going to drop the subsidies, so you'll get exactly what you want (an option which already exists now). It's like how you can buy an iPad for $629 and turn the LTE on/off whenever, or buy one with a data contract for cheaper and be on a contract for 2 years.
 

kas23

macrumors 603
Oct 28, 2007
5,629
288
NH does not require insurance unless you've been in an accident without insurance and require a letter of financial responsibility. We're the only state that doesn't require vehicle insurance as far as I know.

I should move to NH then. If I remember correctly, they don't charge sales tax either. Live free (except for unlocking cellphone) or die.
 

thuchu1

macrumors regular
Oct 16, 2010
155
22
Auburn Hills, MI
It makes perfect sense to me. When you purchase a subsidized device, you are committing, in the form of a two year contract, to stay with the carrier for two years. Unlocked phone or not, you are bound by those agreements.

But now, even when your contract is terminated (either by you or the carrier), you are basically still tied to that network only. That really doesn't seem like fair practice. So no, that same choice isn't there.

I didn't see where it says the phone can never be unlocked. Or I didn't read it correctly perhaps.
 

pdqgp

macrumors 68020
Mar 23, 2010
2,131
5,460
This is right up there with my 2 cares less that also include :rolleyes:

Downloading music
Copying Movies
Enjoying Software
Keeping my guns my business
Using the fuel of my choice
etc.....

What the gov't says I can and can't do is becoming mind numbing. To heck with what these dumb laws read.
 
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turtle777

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2004
686
29
Not so in other markets. Telstra will unlock my phone for free while under contract, yet the iPhone was $0 up front, and monthly contract fees lower than those in the US. I still need to honour the contract
whether unlocked or not.

What's the early termination fee at Telstra ?

Ever since the new US law came into effect that capped ETF, carriers need to implement some measures to ensure they don't lose out. Locking phones is one of those measures.

-t

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Sorry for the color and text size but most I see in this thread is about expressing anger for not being able to unlock phones that will be purchased after Jan 26th under contract. What about phones bought before Jan 26th?

Can someone confirm that whoever bought a subsidized phone under a 2-year contract before this Jan 26th from AT&T will simply be able to ask AT&T to unlock it once the contract arrives at expiration after Jan 26th, i.e. as described for the iPhone at https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/client/en_GB/ ?

Thank you!

Yes, got two iPhones unlocked w/o a problem. Both were out of contract.

-t

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If I buy the phone out right and call AT&T up will my service be any cheaper? If not then why pay for the phone twice?

No, that's why you go to T-Mobile, StraightTalk, Cricket or the likes.

I really don't understand the point your trying to make: you can pay higher phone service (AT&T), and get the phone cheaper (but locked until contract is up), or pay more for the phone, and get cheaper service.

-t
 

SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,426
555
Sydney, Australia
I'm going with military draft (aka 1940 Selective Services Program) for the win. Thanks for playing "Biggest Single Erosion of Individual Rights and Privacy in the Last Century in the US!!!"

Except I chose to specifically omit that law for the following reasons:

1. The US has a history of conscription going back hundreds of years and was first used on a national level in the Civil War. There are numerous historical laws which essentially did the same thing prior to Selective Services Program being enacted. It is simply a "new" name for a very old policy.

2. The US Supreme court has upheld the legality of the Selective Services Program on a number of occasions by citing Article I, Section 8 of the US Constitution:

The Congress shall have power...

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy

Their interpretation being that non-voluntary military service was ingrained in the constitution much earlier than 1940.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei

3. Whilst conscription may have the potential to have a greater impact on a particular individual (i.e death), it only affects a relatively small percentage of the population based on gender and age (males between age X and Y). The Patriot Act has the potential to affect every single person in the country, regardless of age or gender. It is far greater in its scope.

I consider being forced to fight and maybe die, slightly ahead of W & Crew looking at my net porn and listening to my 900 calls.

It's a 363 page document and there is far more to it than telecommunications intercepts.

4. A large part of the freedom associated with living in a democracy is an open and transparent government, which is open to scrutiny by the people to which it is accountable. The ways in which the Selective Services Program is implemented (by way of registration and lottery) is open and publicly known. It is open to scrutiny. Many of the actions which the Patriot Act legalise may be conducted covertly and without judicial sanction. It is impossible for the agents and agencies of the government implementing these laws to be held accountable by the public because of these clandestine traits.

So, whilst I do not agree with conscription in general or the Selective Services Program specifically (it represents a massive limitation on individual freedoms), it did not represent a significant erosion of individual freedom because legal mechanisms to do basically the same thing existed much earlier than 1940 and the concept had been implemented many times before, extending back prior to the Civil War.

In contrast to this, many of the things allowed for by the Patriot Act are completely novel, have no legal precedent and have the potential to be far more wider reaching, affecting the population in its entirety.
 
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SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,426
555
Sydney, Australia
Glad we don't have this ******** in Australia. You can buy and phone outright and unlock and if you purchase on contract they will unlock with a fee and contract termination, but it is not illegal to unlock any mobile in Australia.

Often in AU on a contract they will unlock for free or with a small fee. Regardless of if you use another SIM in it you still need to pay the monthly costs until your contract is up so they don't care.

Prepaid though, thats a different story since you aren't under contract the phones are subsidised - those they won't unlock.
 

imageWIS

macrumors 65816
Mar 17, 2009
1,281
822
NYC
It's why 2013 will be like 1984...

Well played!

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Funny... I have the title for my car and I'm still making payments on it.
AND the title is in my name.
What they do have on the bottom of the title is a Lien Holder.
This gives them right of repossession if I fail to make the payments, but it does not grant them anything else.

Yup. I also had the title of my car when I was making payments.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,902
They unlock it as soon as the two years are over.
Not necessarily. The carriers are under no obligation to unlock your phone.

Example: AT&T had refused to unlock iPhones under any circumstances for so long. They only backtracked recently because of the decision that "unofficial" unlocking is legal. But now, the table has turned again. The fact that "unofficial" unlocking is deemed illegal now, there will be no reason for AT&T to unlock their phones anymore. In fact, AT&T's own policy has always been vague. AT&T said they will only unlock phones that are not exclusive to them. With that wording, AT&T can refuse unlocking on any of their phones as they are tailor-made for AT&T.
 

aka777

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2012
858
421
This is what a massive, extremely powerful federal government looks like - the power is taken from the people and given to the powerful.

Wake up. Your beloved private sector and their million dollar lobbying is behind this. It's people like you who continue to peddle the myth, that allows the 'corporations' to keep on buying (R) politicians.

To the contrary, government and their powerful 'consumer protection' agencies in other advanced countries that are not a corporatocracy like the USA, have made it illegal to lock handsets.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,753
4,927
Does that mean you have no ownership claim to your car if you're still making bank payments against it?

Show me your title. Bet your ass you aren't the owner if you are making payments.

Don't like the unlock policy, pony up and pay in full and then the phone really is yours.
 

AppleFanatic10

macrumors 68030
Nov 2, 2010
2,802
295
Hawthorne, CA
So does this mean that when someone's contract ends on AT&T they can't unlock it? If so why did they (cellphone carriers) even try unlocking phones in the first place, when they knew that eventually they were going to try to fight against unlocking phones?
 

firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,108
1,345
Silicon Valley
It's my device, I can do whatever I want with it. By law, it's my property, and AT&T has no rights...

It may be your device, but AT&T and Apple still owns the copyrights to the software that run the radios. So you can do what you want with your brick after erasing all the software. You didn't write it. Go write your own instead if illegally modifying software you clearly didn't write and don't own.

After (several years later) you write your own software to control the device and its cellular radios, see how much it costs to get the FCC to re-certify your device for cellular radio transmissions. Until then, it's a very nice brick.

Yes, you own that brick. Not the software that runs it.
 

kanedavid

macrumors newbie
Jan 20, 2011
17
6
I think in the UK it is illegal for telco's to lock a mobile and not give you the ability to unlock it.

Typical of the US really, once again, being run by the corporations and not the people.

Here in New Zealand, none of the 3 major carriers or any of the virtual carriers SIM-Lock phones, even when they are sold with a subsidy.

Justification for SIM-Locking a phone on the basis of a customer signing up is a complete croc of ****. A customer that sells the phone or switches to another network still has to pay the contract term (or the break fee)... If they don't pay, the carrier can take legal action.
 

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
What a dumb law... SIM Locking achieves nothing other than proving to the consumer the level of arrogance the telco's have.

Here in New Zealand, none of the 3 major carriers or any of the virtual carriers SIM-Lock phones, even when they are sold with a subsidy.

Justification for SIM-Locking a phone on the basis of a customer signing up is a complete croc of ****. A customer that sells the phone or switches to another network still has to pay the contract term (or the break fee)... If they don't pay, the carrier can take legal action.

I think it might be illegal over here as well :)
 
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