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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:38 PM   #51
mrsir2009
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Originally Posted by RyanR. View Post
So now these kids are homeless and jobless?
Yes, but I guess the point of Apple stopping it is to deter families from sending their kids off to work at such a young age in the first place? Although things must have been pretty bad for the families to make their kids work... Kinda looks like a double-edged sword

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Originally Posted by Bheleu View Post
No wonder we have edge bleeding, etc. kudos to Apple for making sure they have competent workers, so we can swap the items out less often. Maybe the kids will stop playing hooky and get back to school to learn some real world job skills. If their parents had finished their education instead of acting like rabbits, they could have bought an iPhone instead of sending their kids out to make them one.
Yeah, and how do they do that when you haven't got enough money to live?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:45 PM   #52
IGregory
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Originally Posted by apple.net View Post
The reality in China is, many kids are done school after grade 9, not because they are not willing to go to Senior High, but not everyone can be ADMITTED. What do you expect these kids to do? Having a job would be a great thing for the family and her/himself. Now to protect them, they become jobless and have to hang on the street all day. I am not blaming Apple as Apple has its own right to make their standard. But just don't say this for the good of the kids. And I am sure those kids who lost their job would go for a new job anyway.
If what you say is true I agree with you. What's wrong with a kid assembling electronic parts for an iPhone, iPod or a Mac computer. Its not like they are working in a concentration camp or at hard labor. So long as the work is voluntary and not strenuous and the hours normal let them earn a living.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:48 PM   #53
mrsir2009
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Originally Posted by Arcus View Post
Actually yes , people do care. they should be getting an education. Something that you appear to have skipped as well.
But refusing them work like they've done here isn't going to lead to them getting an education - It's going to lead to them starving on the streets.

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Originally Posted by IGregory View Post
If what you say is true I agree with you. What's wrong with a kid assembling electronic parts. Its not like they are working in a concentration camp or at hard labor.
And maybe if they worked a little less hours each day than adults - Say, 6 hrs instead of 8 hrs... That'd allow them to have some free time, but still support their family
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:58 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
And Samsung and the other Asian competitors will gladly hire this supplier to manufacture THEIR Android devices to accelerate production, because things like child labor violations are generally not considered 'taboo' in most Asian countries (and developing nations).
Samsung produces a large portion of its products in its home country of south Korea which has comparable wages to the United states. It is not a race to bottom country like China where wages are maybe a dollar a day if your lucky.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:26 PM   #55
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I think child labor is an awful thing. But this is a very complicated issue and I guarantee you that for many children in China, working in a factory is a blessing. First, when people are desperate, they will turn to many things to take care of themselves. Supposedly these children will be sent back to school. If their family is starving, how long do you think that will last? Parents will pull them out and put them back to work somewhere else.

Nike had a problem with underage workers in their factories. They would fire them and then the only option for most of them was prostitution. So, they worked out a deal where the kids would work a part day and go to school at the factory for part of the day so that they could get an education. Just dropping them out on the street was not going to put them in school, just into a more dangerous work situation.

Most of this is pressure from do-gooders who think they are helping when they are actually hurting. The U.S. is not the rest of the world and our arrogance at pushing our values on people is astounding. It is only matched by the ignorance of the majority of people about the reality of living in many parts of the world. And yes, I've spent time in China.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:49 PM   #56
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Tough one. We had child labour in England when we were still developing and there are valid points about China being very different to America or England. However it (and everything else, since everything is made in China) still has a feel of exploitation.

If anything I think it demonstrates how Apple should not have involved themselves in the first place, as they're in a no win situation now. And it just shows - we pay a premium when buying Apple products. So where does that go, and why are they cutting corners like outsourcing manufacturing to a country of cheap exploitable labour and the same with support call centres
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:56 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Cloudane View Post
Tough one. We had child labour in England when we were still developing and there are valid points about China being very different to America or England. However it (and everything else, since everything is made in China) still has a feel of exploitation.

If anything I think it demonstrates how Apple should not have involved themselves in the first place, as they're in a no win situation now. And it just shows - we pay a premium when buying Apple products. So where does that go, and why are they cutting corners like outsourcing manufacturing to a country of cheap exploitable labour and the same with support call centres
If they can do something cheaper by doing it somewhere else, while still retaining the product's quality, they'll do it. Just because Apple has large profit margins, it doesn't make any sense for them to inflict unnecessarily high costs on themselves.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 04:16 PM   #58
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Sucks that Apple needs to drop them, the way i see it, its a winning deal for everyone except the uneducated american middle class who would not buy apple products if there was a news story about apple knowingly exploiting underage labour. The children can afford to eat, and both Apple and the factory owners can ultimately afford to make their products more competitively priced.
Which makes the prices lower for the consumer.

If its a ethics question for you check the tag on the back of your shirt- chances are you voted with your dollar to support child labour.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 04:30 PM   #59
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Well they keep making things smaller, they need those little fingers to put things together. It is a catch 10.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:35 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudane View Post
Tough one. We had child labour in England when we were still developing and there are valid points about China being very different to America or England. However it (and everything else, since everything is made in China) still has a feel of exploitation.

If anything I think it demonstrates how Apple should not have involved themselves in the first place, as they're in a no win situation now. And it just shows - we pay a premium when buying Apple products. So where does that go, and why are they cutting corners like outsourcing manufacturing to a country of cheap exploitable labour and the same with support call centres
So, did we in the US. In fact, that is a defining characteristic of developing countries. They have to take advantage of what they have, and initially it is an abundance of labor. People forget that their grandparents worked on a farm when they were children (unpaid child labor). It is only when a wealthy middle-class exists that societies can afford to not use the labor available in children and send them to be educated. If fact, in 99.9% of the world's history, child labor was the norm. It's really only since WWII that it has really declined in the US, but everyone else is totally immoral since they haven't caught up with us.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:43 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
But refusing them work like they've done here isn't going to lead to them getting an education - It's going to lead to them starving on the streets.
Of course. In China, kids don't go to school, they starve on the streets

If you had bothered to actually go to Apple's website and read the report, the company pays to get them back to their homes and pays for them to go back to school.

What a totally perverted outlook some people here have. One year after some idiot actor faked having seen 100s of kids working at Foxconn and the outcry about it, on this exact website, now people are actually _blaming_ Apple for putting a stop to this kind of thing when they find it.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 06:08 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Laird Knox View Post
Derp: "Apple uses child labor!"
Apple: "We have cut ties with companies that do not meet our labor standards."
Derp: "OMG! Apple throws children out on the street!"
Face: Palm
Heh. This sums it for the most part. Texas Instruments went through the same thing back in the 80s. They were crucified when they discovered and exposed the problem and then burned at the torch for rectifying it.

Meanwhile, you got a third group waving pitch forks over here in the US demanding that these companies bring the manufacturing jobs back to the US and pay the employees inflated wages for half the work and twice the benefits.

It's a no win no matter what you do these days.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 06:27 PM   #63
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we audited a supplier, Guangdong Real Faith Pingzhou Electronics Co., Ltd. (PZ)? that produces a standard circuit board component used by many other companies
in many industries. Our auditors were dismayed to discover 74 cases of workers under age 16--a core violation of our Code of Conduct. As a result, we terminated our business relationship with PZ.
But on a positive note, of course Apple's subcontractors can still source from them, hence no harm will be done to productivity.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by WildCowboy View Post
We certainly weren't first on this story, but by my count we beat 9to5 by eight minutes.
really? I saw it way before that on 9 to 5 mac. weird.

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Originally Posted by RoelJuun View Post
I don't read 9to5mac so for me it's news.
I guess so.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:53 AM   #65
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Here's a idea for Apple

If Apple really gave a bloody flying freak about being socially responsible, like they love to pretend they do, then they would stand-up and insist that product's are fully manufactured in the same region where it's sold.

Selling in North America, manufacture in North America & charge prices accordingly. Selling in Asia, manufacture in Asia and price accordingly.

It's completely amoral to arbitrage labor across the globe. This behavior boosts the bonuses of Executives while depriving local citizens both a living wage and products they can have pride in having made.

So step up to the plate Apple, find a way to solve this HUGE social challenge, including the propensity for black-market imports, etc. and then you will actually be living what you preach.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
I think child labor is an awful thing. But this is a very complicated issue and I guarantee you that for many children in China, working in a factory is a blessing.
Using your logic, it was a service for the Germans to gas people who would otherwise be starving in the Warsaw ghettos.

I think not, it's not complicated at all you are just rationalizing support for an evil system that exists only because corrupt government works hand & hand with corrupt corporations.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 01:29 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Samsung produces a large portion of its products in its home country of south Korea which has comparable wages to the United states. It is not a race to bottom country like China where wages are maybe a dollar a day if your lucky.
This has to be one of the most asinine posts I have read on this forum. Read this about Saint Samsung:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2190246.html

The article mentions CHINA factories. See, Samsung uses those same factories too.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:04 AM   #67
gnasher729
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Originally Posted by RyanR. View Post
So now these kids are homeless and jobless?
This post was voted up by 13 people.

That's 13 people who were too lazy to actually read Apple's report, and to find the following sentence: "Suppliers must return underage workers to school and finance their education at a school chosen by the family. In addition, the children must continue to receive income matching what they received when they were employed. We also follow up regularly to ensure that the children remain in school and that the suppliers continue to uphold their financial commitment."

Get it? Not homeless. Going to school. _And_ receiving the same money as if they were going to work.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:00 AM   #68
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Consider those 13 might well simply be Chinese or corporate trolls. Every time a discussion about Chinese labor comes up they emerge like mushrooms and post anti-American worker sentiments.

They pretty much all say the same thing too, which makes one think they work off of a talking point list of some sort.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:21 AM   #69
Jimmy James
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Originally Posted by szw-mapple fan View Post
macrumors posting several hours after 9to5mac. AGAIN.
Why don't you have some kids and send them over to work for this website for less than minimum wage. Might help with efficiency.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:57 PM   #70
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Why don't you have some kids and send them over to work for this website for less than minimum wage. Might help with efficiency.
I don't see how your comment is relevant to late posts on macrumors
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 04:44 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by carlgo View Post
Consider those 13 might well simply be Chinese or corporate trolls. Every time a discussion about Chinese labor comes up they emerge like mushrooms and post anti-American worker sentiments.

They pretty much all say the same thing too, which makes one think they work off of a talking point list of some sort.
No, I'd say it's general stupidity. Of course any of those 13 is very welcome to post here and explain why they voted this up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flameproof View Post
But on a positive note, of course Apple's subcontractors can still source from them, hence no harm will be done to productivity.
Actually, no. The agency supplying these underage workers has been shut down. The manufacturer was a subcontractor used by an Apple contractor: The contractor isn't using the subcontractor anymore, the contractor has on its own started checks on its other subcontractors, and you can bet that the contractor will not try to somehow use the subcontractor again in some hidden fashion because the risk is much too big for them, unless they want to lose their contract with Apple.

Last edited by gnasher729; Jan 27, 2013 at 05:19 PM.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:34 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by johnkountz View Post
If Apple really gave a bloody flying freak about being socially responsible, like they love to pretend they do, then they would stand-up and insist that product's are fully manufactured in the same region where it's sold.

Selling in North America, manufacture in North America & charge prices accordingly. Selling in Asia, manufacture in Asia and price accordingly.
Do you honestly believe this is even possible?

It would require trade agreements and import restrictions the likes of which have never even been imagined, and drive the US to the very brink of financial ruin.

It's a global economy. Get used to it, cause its only going to continue to head in this direction.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:52 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by johnkountz View Post
If Apple really gave a bloody flying freak about being socially responsible, like they love to pretend they do, then they would stand-up and insist that product's are fully manufactured in the same region where it's sold.

Selling in North America, manufacture in North America & charge prices accordingly. Selling in Asia, manufacture in Asia and price accordingly.

It's completely amoral to arbitrage labor across the globe. This behavior boosts the bonuses of Executives while depriving local citizens both a living wage and products they can have pride in having made.

So step up to the plate Apple, find a way to solve this HUGE social challenge, including the propensity for black-market imports, etc. and then you will actually be living what you preach.
Price accordingly

iPhone 5 16GB unlocked for USA is US$649

iPhone 5 16GB for China is RMB5288 = US$849.67

Chinese students have no money no credit card.
No problem, Apple rolls out installment payment plan in China.

I don't know the installment plan interest rate, 5% ? 10%?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikamor...plan-in-china/
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:19 AM   #74
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Politics... but what if no one knew?
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 04:23 AM   #75
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Good move, even if it's mainly for PR purposes (the reason I'm saying this is because there have been reports of child labour previously, and little was done until the news reached a wider audience).
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