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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:49 PM   #176
WilliamG
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Originally Posted by mrmarts View Post
why is that new macs are always prone to retention!
Not always. This only started happening with the new IPS panels in the 2012 Mac line, (MacBook Pro retina 13", retina 15", and the new 2012 iMacs). Why? Who knows...

I haven't read of any major cases of image retention (or really any cases at all!) with previous-year Macs. It's definitely a shame. But there are 2012 iMacs out there without image retention. Mine has zero, and I'm VERY picky.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:57 PM   #177
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I picked up the replacement iMac from the Apple store on Wednesday. It has the same blue IR as the original, but none of the green. I ran Prime95 for about 60 minutes to get it really toasty, just to be sure the green wouldn't kick in. The blue IR is much less common and much harder to see. I doubt the end user will notice, so I'm not going to request another replacement. Here are videos comparing the two:

Original iMac
Replacement iMac
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:58 PM   #178
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The 2012 iMac is using the same LCD as 2011, and they did not have big issues with IR. if you have IR, return it and get a new one. LG is not the best LCD maker around, but it's who we are stuck with for now.. So make sure you get a good one
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:17 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post
Not always. This only started happening with the new IPS panels in the 2012 Mac line, (MacBook Pro retina 13", retina 15", and the new 2012 iMacs). Why? Who knows...

I haven't read of any major cases of image retention (or really any cases at all!) with previous-year Macs. It's definitely a shame. But there are 2012 iMacs out there without image retention. Mine has zero, and I'm VERY picky.
IR isn't new. My 2008 had IR along with the replacement screen. There have been threads around about it for years.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:24 AM   #180
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I think it's really happening now because of the lamination process. Think about it. There is no air to cool the display in front, instead it's laminated. I don't know. Just seems like that would be the most logical reason why the IR is more prominent this year, because that's the major change, and it directly involves the display.....
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:47 AM   #181
WilliamG
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Originally Posted by itsamacthing View Post
The 2012 iMac is using the same LCD as 2011, and they did not have big issues with IR. if you have IR, return it and get a new one. LG is not the best LCD maker around, but it's who we are stuck with for now.. So make sure you get a good one
I read of no image retention issues with the 2011, 2010, or 2009. It comes up a lot, and while the model number has stayed the same from what I recall - with regards to the LCD, I think something has changed. No way to prove it either way without tearing down the panel from my 2012 and my 2009, of course. I'd love to be proved right, or wrong. Either way, it would put to bed that argument.

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Originally Posted by smoking monkey View Post
IR isn't new. My 2008 had IR along with the replacement screen. There have been threads around about it for years.

Fair enough. It seems like it's become more of an issue throughout the whole of Apple's computer range, though, this past year.

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Originally Posted by large farva View Post
I think it's really happening now because of the lamination process. Think about it. There is no air to cool the display in front, instead it's laminated. I don't know. Just seems like that would be the most logical reason why the IR is more prominent this year, because that's the major change, and it directly involves the display.....
Maybe. But that doesn't explain why many of us aren't have any image retention with our new iMacs... And personally I have the most-heat generating of all the 27" iMacs. A quad core i7, 32GB RAM, a spinning 7200rpm hard drive, with the Geforce 680. Doesn't get any hotter! No image retention at all.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:16 AM   #182
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So far I've not seen any IR on my new 27". I've not gone specifically looking for it (leaving test patterns up etc) but there is none evident yet from normal use - although I was quite worried about the issue as I'm a heavy Photoshop user.

Still early days though as it arrived less than 48 hours ago.

My only criticisms of the screen so far are that a) it had what look like several smudgy fingers print marks on it fresh out the box and b) if I put a solid medium grey colour on the desktop background I can see feint uneven dark patches across the screen. Easiest way to explain it is it looks like the screen is dirty. This only shows up on grey though, and again on normal use I don't notice it.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:24 AM   #183
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All this makes me want to cancel my order and wait it out...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 07:27 AM   #184
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Sorry if this has been mentioned before (big thread, not reading all)

Here is what Apple has to say about image retention......

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5455?v...S&locale=en_US

I quote from article
"On an IPS display, when an image such as a login window is left on screen for a long period of time, you may temporarily see a faint remnant of the image even after a new image replaces it. This is referred to as "persistence," "image retention," or "ghosting." This is normal behavior for an IPS display, and the faint image will disappear over time."

Kind of putting me off apple now!!
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 08:55 AM   #185
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for those who do not want to click the link



Avoiding image persistence on Apple displays

In-plane switching (IPS) technology is used in today's most advanced displays, including the Apple Cinema and Thunderbolt Displays, as well as the displays built in to iMac and Macbook Pro with Retina display computers. IPS technology enhances the viewing experience by providing full 178-degree viewing angles in all directions. This makes IPS displays ideal for observing content with multiple people, and provides pristine viewing characteristics for image, print, and video production workflows.

On an IPS display, when an image such as a login window is left on screen for a long period of time, you may temporarily see a faint remnant of the image even after a new image replaces it. This is referred to as "persistence," "image retention," or "ghosting." This is normal behavior for an IPS display, and the faint image will disappear over time.

You can prevent image persistence by using the display sleep feature to turn off the display when it is not in use. You can also use a screen saver to make sure that a static image isn't on the display for long periods of time. Both of these features are on by default in Mac OS X, but you can adjust the settings as needed.



To prevent image persistence, enable the display sleep feature:

From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences, and then click Energy Saver.
Click the Battery tab (if using a notebook).
Set the "Display sleep" slider to a brief interval of time (such as 15 minutes).
Click the Power Adapter tab and make the same change (if using a notebook).


If you see a persistent image on your screen, you can use the screen saver to eliminate it:

From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences, and then click "Desktop & Screen Saver."
Click the Screen Saver tab.
Choose a screen saver.
Set the "Start screen saver" time to be shorter than the "Display sleep" and "Computer sleep" settings in the Energy Saver pane of System Preferences.
To clear the persistent image, allow the screen saver to run for approximately as long as the image was being displayed.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 08:57 AM   #186
itsamacthing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomtip View Post
for those who do not want to click the link



Avoiding image persistence on Apple displays

In-plane switching (IPS) technology is used in today's most advanced displays, including the Apple Cinema and Thunderbolt Displays, as well as the displays built in to iMac and Macbook Pro with Retina display computers. IPS technology enhances the viewing experience by providing full 178-degree viewing angles in all directions. This makes IPS displays ideal for observing content with multiple people, and provides pristine viewing characteristics for image, print, and video production workflows.

On an IPS display, when an image such as a login window is left on screen for a long period of time, you may temporarily see a faint remnant of the image even after a new image replaces it. This is referred to as "persistence," "image retention," or "ghosting." This is normal behavior for an IPS display, and the faint image will disappear over time.

You can prevent image persistence by using the display sleep feature to turn off the display when it is not in use. You can also use a screen saver to make sure that a static image isn't on the display for long periods of time. Both of these features are on by default in Mac OS X, but you can adjust the settings as needed.



To prevent image persistence, enable the display sleep feature:

From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences, and then click Energy Saver.
Click the Battery tab (if using a notebook).
Set the "Display sleep" slider to a brief interval of time (such as 15 minutes).
Click the Power Adapter tab and make the same change (if using a notebook).


If you see a persistent image on your screen, you can use the screen saver to eliminate it:

From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences, and then click "Desktop & Screen Saver."
Click the Screen Saver tab.
Choose a screen saver.
Set the "Start screen saver" time to be shorter than the "Display sleep" and "Computer sleep" settings in the Energy Saver pane of System Preferences.
To clear the persistent image, allow the screen saver to run for approximately as long as the image was being displayed.
LOL... LG has such a wide range of qualities that this is how Apple has to deal with it. I would personally never accept an LCD with IR
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:10 AM   #187
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Can IR be printed on someone's work without noticing it before printing ?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:40 AM   #188
whitel4
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Originally Posted by mushroomtip View Post
Can IR be printed on someone's work without noticing it before printing ?
No way. Think of the IR as a mark on the screen.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:01 AM   #189
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"I've had this one, which is my third, for a week now, and I'm taking it back tomorrow to exchange."

How much time are you going to waste "exchanging"?

If it bothers you that much, just take it back, get a refund, and buy a Mac Mini. Then go get a top-of-the-line 3rd-party display like the Dell 2713...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:10 AM   #190
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LOL ... looks like admits that there is such problem on their rMBP and new iMac with the support page. Well some of them, at least .. As usual .. shamelessly saying it as "normal" .. Wow I didn't pay normal for an Apple product

Never had any IR issues with any iPad. I mean, they're IPS, right? Right, ?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:16 AM   #191
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So have people had the problem with the ACD's and Thunderbolt Displays, too? Have I just missed that?

I have to say it seems absurd (and somewhat insulting) for them to claim that a problem like IR is "normal" for a computer screen/monitor in this day and age....

All this is definitely making me wonder about whether the 27" is a good idea for now...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:33 AM   #192
itsamacthing
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Originally Posted by Trinite View Post
So have people had the problem with the ACD's and Thunderbolt Displays, too? Have I just missed that?

I have to say it seems absurd (and somewhat insulting) for them to claim that a problem like IR is "normal" for a computer screen/monitor in this day and age....

All this is definitely making me wonder about whether the 27" is a good idea for now...
IR is not normal, send it back if it has it... I have not seen it on ACD or ATD or any iMac that I have tested, so if you have it... thats an issue
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:38 AM   #193
whitel4
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Originally Posted by Trinite View Post
So have people had the problem with the ACD's and Thunderbolt Displays, too? Have I just missed that?

I have to say it seems absurd (and somewhat insulting) for them to claim that a problem like IR is "normal" for a computer screen/monitor in this day and age....

All this is definitely making me wonder about whether the 27" is a good idea for now...
Me too, I was shocked when I read that. If I have any problems with IR I will take back and just get a full refund, if that's going to be apples approach.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:03 AM   #194
crows
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I personally can say that the 27" iMac I received last Friday DOES NOT have any IR so it is NOT normal, BUT it does have the yellow tint on the bottom half of the screen issue, so I will exchange it obviously im worried I will get one of these faulty LCD's with IR the second time around..
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:11 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomtip View Post
To prevent image persistence, enable the display sleep feature:

From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences, and then click Energy Saver.
Click the Battery tab (if using a notebook).
Set the "Display sleep" slider to a brief interval of time (such as 15 minutes).
Click the Power Adapter tab and make the same change (if using a notebook).


If you see a persistent image on your screen, you can use the screen saver to eliminate it:

From the Apple () menu, choose System Preferences, and then click "Desktop & Screen Saver."
Click the Screen Saver tab.
Choose a screen saver.
Set the "Start screen saver" time to be shorter than the "Display sleep" and "Computer sleep" settings in the Energy Saver pane of System Preferences.
To clear the persistent image, allow the screen saver to run for approximately as long as the image was being displayed.
I have my iMac set to put the display to sleep after 5 minutes. My problem is that retention starts immediately upon something being on the screen. So things like my dock that are always there never go away. The same goes for browser windows. Using a screen saver doesn't help me. The images that are burned in just won't go away. Even after using a new wallpaper for two days the old one that is burned in still shows up in addition to the new one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishrrman View Post
"I've had this one, which is my third, for a week now, and I'm taking it back tomorrow to exchange."

How much time are you going to waste "exchanging"?

If it bothers you that much, just take it back, get a refund, and buy a Mac Mini. Then go get a top-of-the-line 3rd-party display like the Dell 2713...
The Mac Mini doesn't meet my needs, and many of the 27" Dells also have image retention. It has an LG panel.

I will not accept seeing dock icons and old browser windows show through when I'm watching a movie or looking at pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinite View Post
So have people had the problem with the ACD's and Thunderbolt Displays, too? Have I just missed that?

I have to say it seems absurd (and somewhat insulting) for them to claim that a problem like IR is "normal" for a computer screen/monitor in this day and age....

All this is definitely making me wonder about whether the 27" is a good idea for now...
If you look at some of my prior posts in this thread, I also tried a 27" Apple Cinema Display after returning my first iMac, and it had worse image retention than my iMac did. I also tried a Dell u2312m and u2412m and both had image retention. The 23" also had the crosshatching problem that the 27" Dells all have, and the antiglare coating was horrible on them.

The problem is LG displays. It's a lottery to get a good panel.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:40 PM   #196
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So if the iMac and Dell 2713 both use LG panels, and it's a crap-shoot whether or not you get a good one - what's the best high-quality 27" panel at 2560 x 1440 resolution? Btw, what's the dot-pitch of the 2012 27" iMac?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:42 PM   #197
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Couple of things- firstly, and I could stand corrected here, but Im almost certain that contrary to a lot of posts here, it IS a different LCD made by a different company- so the lamination process is NOT the only thing to be different. IR was not a common issue for the previous generation, I went through about 6 of them for varying reasons and IR was never one of them.

There is no excuse for this. Apple suggesting 'turn on sleep' is absolute ***** for a computer at this price, and for all previous posters who are 'settling' for something, my response is, are you f*&cking kidding me? When you spend that much on a computer you're seriously willing to 'settle'? Gods.

now for something which may actually help more than the above rant- there have been a few people who aren't willing to exchange because of the hassle. I'm not sure if you;re aware, but if you are persuasive enough, you can actually get a retrospective replacement within 14 days- Apple will send you a new one, and you get the old one picked up by the courier when you have the new one, so you aren't without a mac.

Also to add, I have the latest iMac (2012) with the GTX 680MX, 1TB fusion, and I'm awaiting an exchange model for a backlight bleeding issue. I was working with it just now, however, and I too have experienced quite nasty IR. I will keep replacing it until its correct though, even if that means I have to go through 15 replacements. Ill let you know if the replacement has any IR issues at all. Also, do we have a tally of how many people have this mac and DONT have IR issues?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:20 PM   #198
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I'd like to see a class action lawsuit about this for iMac and Macbook Pro retina users. However I doubt that will ever happen on this.

I don't believe there is a tally on who has or who hasn't had any IR issues with their 2012 iMacs. There was a tally over on the Macbook Pro forums but its hardly conclusive. The big problem is when the IR appears for people and if they notice it. When I first responded to to that thread I had no IR at all. Then 6 months later it started happening. I think maybe after owning the machine for 6 months to a year you can finally conclude whether your LG panel is good or not. Just thought my thoughts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tmorterlaing View Post
Couple of things- firstly, and I could stand corrected here, but Im almost certain that contrary to a lot of posts here, it IS a different LCD made by a different company- so the lamination process is NOT the only thing to be different. IR was not a common issue for the previous generation, I went through about 6 of them for varying reasons and IR was never one of them.

There is no excuse for this. Apple suggesting 'turn on sleep' is absolute ***** for a computer at this price, and for all previous posters who are 'settling' for something, my response is, are you f*&cking kidding me? When you spend that much on a computer you're seriously willing to 'settle'? Gods.

now for something which may actually help more than the above rant- there have been a few people who aren't willing to exchange because of the hassle. I'm not sure if you;re aware, but if you are persuasive enough, you can actually get a retrospective replacement within 14 days- Apple will send you a new one, and you get the old one picked up by the courier when you have the new one, so you aren't without a mac.

Also to add, I have the latest iMac (2012) with the GTX 680MX, 1TB fusion, and I'm awaiting an exchange model for a backlight bleeding issue. I was working with it just now, however, and I too have experienced quite nasty IR. I will keep replacing it until its correct though, even if that means I have to go through 15 replacements. Ill let you know if the replacement has any IR issues at all. Also, do we have a tally of how many people have this mac and DONT have IR issues?


----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak View Post
I can get new retention to go away pretty quickly on mine. For example, if I run the grid test for a few minutes, it goes away after about the same length of time that it was on the screen. But my dock icons and browser window are now permanent, just like it was on my first iMac.

Mine is so bad that all of my dock icons are now retained in full color. I can see my dock icons and the outline of my browser window when I watch a movie. I was in Windows 8 all day yesterday, and the dock icons and browser outline didn't fade at all. Actually, I now have an additional browser outline from my browser I had on the screen while in Windows. I don't think I even used the browser in Windows for very long, because I was playing Guild Wars 2 most of the time. I haven't been in Windows today, but I can still see that browser outline that was retained yesterday.

I've had this one, which is my third, for a week now, and I'm taking it back tomorrow to exchange.
Lava lamp let us know how your replacement goes. Best of luck to you. I hope it works out. If it does I will be tempted to travel over to the mainland for a replacement as well. I hear people have better luck at the Apple store instead of over the phone.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptownnyc View Post
So if the iMac and Dell 2713 both use LG panels, and it's a crap-shoot whether or not you get a good one - what's the best high-quality 27" panel at 2560 x 1440 resolution? Btw, what's the dot-pitch of the 2012 27" iMac?
You could get one by NEC but they tend to be on the expensive side.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 05:28 PM   #199
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I exchanged my iMac today. I was offered AppleCare for 50% off for my troubles, and I took advantage of it.

The new iMac has image retention as well, but so far it is very faint and blue instead of strong and full color like the last one was. Right now I can only see it if looking for it on a grey screen. It'll take a little while to find out if it gets strong enough to notice during normal use like the last one was.

Last edited by Lava Lamp Freak; Jan 27, 2013 at 05:39 PM.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 05:31 PM   #200
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I have a late 2012 27" (i5/8GB/GTX680MX/1TBFD) and not one single sign of this image retention thing.

I tested everything to check the image ghosting, but nothing happend.
The display is in the bottom a little bit more yellow and it was terrible calibrated, but after a manual calibration, everything is really well.

So, there are displays without this image retention!
Good luck
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